Koopak

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Alright, fuckin go off i guess. On the one hand I recognizable that performance is completely unsustainable, on the other hand the prior kinds of the pylon were all abusing unsustainable setups too. That said hey Ratch, care to come to my next Khan TF? What do yall think of including a check box like the hybrid to cover sustained vs burst? Would kill for a target with enough hp to make 2k dps still take like 4 minutes to kill

I put it down as 1 since i assume you mean youve done a lot. Run counts are for if you are doing averages, for instance i have both my bets run and my average of 10 runs for both widows. Either way Champion Ratch_ has fallen, may Champion Frosticus's rein be long adn prosperous!

I'm fairly sure I can get current NW to out do fort. I have no major ideas how to improve my fort's dps, but a few for NW. That said, the coming patch gives NWs atleast a 10% dps buff. As for the 600 dps comment, I've never seen a number much over 530 which is where mine are currently. I can confirm though, if you try to go ranged dps for fort, you should be prepared to be unimpressed. It'll be better after the patch but not by much. Dominate is the only ranged power that meaningfully competes with the claw attacks. Scramble thoughts will after the patch, but that's really it. Ranged attacks do less damage by design

We have a new pylon/dummy champion! thanks @Ratch_

Yes, but it takes some investment in recharge, my core rotation is "Lunge -> Dominate -> Strike -> Follow Up" I replace Strike with Shatter Armor every 4th rotation, you can do it on cooldown if you want its like a 1-2 dps loss at most, but its more end heavy. I also replace Strike with Aim, Enflame, and Psychic Wail on cooldown. If you value AoE clearing more you can drop Enflame for Spin, and Spirit Ward for something like the new Sealed Fate power coming next patch.

Yes please submit your feedback here, itll be much more useful to the developers.

I'm just going to add one last thing that i feel has been overlooked. A huge amount of the argument against these roles is centered around the idea that you can fill different roles with the same AT with clever builds and play. This is repeatedly held up as somehow unique to City of Heroes, lets clarify something since i know a large portion of this player base doesn't have a lot of experience in other games, let alone other MMOs. City of Heroes is not 'unique' because you can do off meta rolls with its equivalent to classes. My Rogue in World of Warcraft has successfully taken over tanking when a traditional tank class has died, and through good play and clever building of gear and talents, I was able to stay up, keep aggro, and save the team a wipe. I ask you, does this make my rogue a tank class? NO, its a melee dps with some durability tools. My Red Mage in Final Fantasy XIV has successfully prevented entire raids of people from wiping by taking over healing the tank and rapid fire rezing the rest of the raid. Does this make my Red Mage a support? NO, its a ranged dps with some support tools So why then, does the fact my Stalker who I cleverly built to abuse knock back powers in Psi Melee and Force of Will and the fear of AS with Invoke Panic supposedly count as Control? It doesn't. It makes it a melee dps with some control tools. And neither would I want it to. The fact that I have accomplished these things with ATs and Classes not meant to do them is a point of great pride. However that pride is predicated upon my knowledge that performing these roles with these ATs and Classes is disproportionately hard, that it is NOT the designed intent. Thus I posit that this role system introduced in the Diversity Bonus in fact ENHANCES the experience of building and playing off meta while also steering new players TOWARD success. Because I sincerely hope no one thinks it is EASIER to Control on a Defender than on a Controller or Dominator. The fact you CAN, however poorly, is a point of player pride, pride that goes away when you try to make this special ability normal. It is the assumption of this series of roles, which inherent encourages safe, reliable play, that allows unique experiences like the one @PancakeGnome so proudly shared with us here.

All good, I appreciate the feedback as I kinda hate formatting. Ill probably add another link to the sheet further down next to the short list

The short version? I can do so, they are however in the sheet which I highly recommend people look at if they want more information.

I don't see anyone arguing that doesn't exist. What I see is people arguing that just because an AT CAN do a role to limited degree does not make the role the AT's designed purpose. I feel a good number of people here have grown so used to the power creeped nature of late CoH that they are unwilling to recognize that ATs have design intent. Comparing what you can do on +4x8 solo is not even close to a practical demonstration of how good say, a Defender, can control over a Controller, or Tank over a Tanker. In fact much of your survival would be coming from buffs and debuffs granted as a matter of incident in your support set. Instead of arguing anecdote, I think it would be more productive to look at the actual numeric capabilities. Defender has a MaxHP of 1017.4, and a MaxMaxHP of 1606.4 Assuming the Defender is able to reach both defense and resist caps, this means the Defender's effective health range is... 81,392‬ - 128,512‬ A Tanker has a Max HP of 1874.1 and a MaxMaxHP of 3534 Assuming the Tanker accomplishes the same through, likely through the same support the Defender needs, their effective health range is... 374,820‬ - 706,800‬ Even at a casual glance here we can see the TOUGHEST a Defender can become is ~34% the durability of a Tanker with the minimum max hp under similar conditions and ~18% of an hp capped Tanker. Okay I think that clarifies that NO a Defender is not equal to a Tanker. Just because the squishiest class in the game can be made tough enough to solo radios does not mean it is not still the squishiest class. Lets also remember a Defender lacks any aggro management tools, and has a Threat scalar of 1 vs Tanker's 4 and a Taunt scalar of 0.5 to the Tanker's of 1 (these are multiplicative. Lets look at Control next. Lets take Defender's Petrifying Gaze vs Controller Dark Grasp as they have the same mag Petrifying Gaze has a duration of 11.92s Dark Grasp has a duration of 22.35s Thus a Defender's mez lasts ~53% of a Controller's This carries through under equivalent enhancements as well. To further hammer this point home, Dark Grasp is avaialable at level 1, Petrifying Gaze is available at level 18. Dark Grasp has a base accuracy mod of 1.2, Petrifying Gaze has a mod of 1 Lastly lets examine this claim regarding Peacebringer's Glowing Touch. Glowing Touch has a heal of 188.9062, at 100% slotting this is 377.8124‬ with a recharge of 4 seconds. Here are the MaxHP values and MaxMaxHP values of all ATs and what % of a heal this represents to them. Archetype Base HP Max HP Cap %Heal of Base HP %Heal of Max HP Cap Blaster 1204.8 1847.3 ~31.35% ~20.45% Controller 1017.4 1606.4 ~37.13% ~23.51% Defender 1017.4 1606.4 ~37.13% ~23.51% Scrapper 1338.6 2409.5 ~28.22% ~15.68% Tanker 1874.1 3534 ~20.15% ~10.69% Peacebringer 1070.9 2409.5 ~35.27% ~15.68% Warshade 1070.9 2409.5 ~35.27% ~15.68% Sentinel 1204.8 2088.3 ~31.35% ~18.09% Brute 1499.3 3212.7 ~25.19% ~11.75% Stalker 1204.8 2088.3 ~31.35% ~18.09% Mastermind 803.2 1606.4 ~47.03% ~23.51% Dominator 1017.4 1606.4 ~37.13% ~23.51% Corruptor 1070.9 1606.4 ~35.27% ~23.51% Arachnos Widow 1070.9 2409.5 ~35.27% ~15.68% Arachnos Soldier 1070.9 2409.5 ~35.27% ~15.68% So I wont redo that table for your AoE heal example but lets just comapre the numbers, ill leave the rest of the math to the reader. Radiation Aura provides 133.8621 at 100% slotting thats 267.7242 which is 70.86% the healing of Glowing Touch. However unlike Glowing Touch, this is applied to the entire tean in a 25 ft radius rather than a single target. Target Cap for Radiation Aura is 255, but I'm going to say you are duoing. Healing two peoples thats 535.4484 hit points healed for ~141.72% the healing of Glowing Touch. Granted Glowing Touch has a recharge time of 4 seconds vs Radiation Aura's 8 seconds, but if you heal 3 people each cast you are now at 212% of Glowing Touch thus 12% more healing per second. Given Radiation Emission has 8 other powers further supporting this single heal, while Peacebringer can barely be argued to have 1 more. I find it diffcult to argue that a Peacebringer is at all on par with a Radiation Emission Defender in terms of support. If your argument can be boiled down to "My Stalker took the medicine pool power there for I am a Support" then I feel it lacks merit. Just because an AT can take powers that help perform a specific role, does not make that AT equivelent to ATs specialised in that role. By the same token, no ammount of Support tuning to your Stalker will ever make you stalker less than a solid source of DPS (short of deciding attack powers are for losers, which i dont think is terrible to argue is a very poor choice.) I think iv about exhausted what I can say here, but I feel that anyone who is arguing that roles dont exists or that ATs cant fill roles outside their intent particularly well is not really looking at this objectively. I will agree that not all ATs fit cleanly into the roles they are in, but those are the minority, Corruptor and SoA being good examples, and in each case a strong argument can be made for their chosen role. While Corruptor for example can absolutely be consdier Support as much as Ranged, the fact fo the matter is, its inherit is dedicated to more damage, and unlike a Defender its primary is an attack set. But to argue that ATs dont have roles, or that they can be blanketly bypassed, is just flatly not true. You will never get a Team lead running content that they know they might fail such as a 4 star, who does not consider these roles, and none of them will agree that a Defender will successfuly tank Rommulous for the Team or that a Peacebringer will be sufficent support to keep them alive.

Hey gang, I am pushing to gather data and builds for a new and improved pylon and clear speed sheet. To that effect I am posting regular bounties to encourage competition and push the limit. Thus without further to do. Bounty Posted! Prize: 2 billion influence Task: Post the best pylon/dummy time of any Dominator for the month of February. Read the rules and regulations and post your results here: Clear Speed Leaderboards (posts made in this thread will be processed if they meet the requirements listed.) Start Date/Time: 00:00 UTC, February 1st 2024 See in your time here! End Date/Time: 00:00 UTC, March 1st 2024 See in your time here! (In the links look in the non bold text with your location in it, if anyone has a better translation method, let me know.) Runs on the test server are valid provided they do not make use of any changes currently being tested, or the changes used are promoted to live.

Bounty Posted! Prize: 2 billion influence Task: Post the best pylon/dummy time of any Dominator for the month of February. Start Date/Time: 00:00 UTC, February 1st 2024 See in your time here! End Date/Time: 00:00 UTC, March 1st 2024 See in your time here! (In the links look in the non bold text with your location in it, if anyone has a better translation method, let me know.) Runs on the test server are valid provided they do not make use of any changes currently being tested, or the changes used are promoted to live.

Lurkers generally lurk and don't post until they feel strongly about something. Just a thought. Let's not fall down the rabbit hole of 'my side is bigger' or 'your side is intentionally organising' or whatever other tribalism. We will be here all year

NW doesn't need much and if anything the resist is just icing. The max hp is the big value. I don't feel NW was tight for picks personally once you cut unnecessary attacks. If it doesn't fit the ST rotation and doesn't provide meaningful utility, I don't take it. I also feel the aura toggles are highly over valued. Assault is worthless in a team with plenty of +damage, unless you are facing a lot of taunts. Tactics does nothing if you are already at hit cap save power against debuffs. I feel if you are attempting to optimize, there's loads to drop.

So I cant speak for the devs, but I can give some insight from closed testing (Where we often get the chance to talk with the devs directly). Granted my familiarity is mainly with widow. Generally speaking these were meant to be low hanging fruit changes to try and shore up how people already play the ATs, for instance Pain Tolerance already feeds into the pseudo tank playstyle that became popular earlier in HCing's life as a niche for Night Widow. The same goes for NW's crit and placate buffs to enable its stalker like playstyle. Fortunata had its control capabilities improved to better enable that side of the kit, and some tweaks to make both subATs have a bit better ranged experience. Soldiers were mostly cleaning up animations times so the set is less clunky and more importantly better performing. Animation times represent one half of the equation for whether an attack is good or not. There's also the tuning to Omega Maneuver to make it less ass to use as well. While the results are significant in some places, this is not meant as an overhaul of the ATs. Such an overhaul is still on the table in the FUTURE but the goal here was a big QoL pass mostly, address some pain points, and just make the VEATs a little more pleasant to play and build. A good example of this is the Confront change you highlighted, this actually just brings it into parity with other primary taunts in the game. Scrapper, Brute, and Tanker taunts all apply the same debuff already. VEATs were just the odd one out.

I included both times if that's okay

Shortlist leader boards updated.

Just to give some deets for people since I did some upper end testing. The placate and crit changes allow NW to claim a solid 10% dps gain. Given a good build could average 500 dps before that's a solid 550. Forts trended a little lower before and this helps set NW apart more damage wise. Once patch hits live I'll be reoptimozing my builds

As the proud owner of a Stalktroller.... do not.

What I outlined was a requirement for a reward being dropped later on. NOT a feature being removed. If you see it that way anyways then that proves the validity of the concept in my opinion. Doom already said my other point. A bunch of hypothesizing about what the other guy is gonna do with his team and his recruitment is just that, wild speculation. You cant 'revise it if there's any doubt' there will always be doubt, every update, every change, has had doubt and nay sayers. This, objectively, can only be proven one way or the other in live conditions.

I'm sorry i'm clearly not understanding your point. Are you trying to argue that if the diversity bonus goes live as is, and then is reworked to simply be a 1 aether reward for your first TF of the day regardless of team composition the community will 'scream bloody murder'?

I mean at this point given Cobalt's comments the options are 'bonus aether once a day' or 'no bonus aether' I really don't get the hate here. This is not going to drastically or even noticeably change player behavior past the first week or two imo. Its just free shit with a subtle push for people to maybe play their controller when they been seeing a lot of scrappers lately. If this gets cut its not a big loss to anyone who actually plays the game regularly, so I don't care really, but the hate is just... weird As for the new player education argument that this will hurt new players, I gotta ask. How? The roles defined are straightforward, and I strongly feel the community greatly overestimates the complexity of this game. There are CLEARLY 5 roles as stipulated, and frankly if anything id roll ranged and melee damage into one. There aren't any other actions to do. You tank, do damage, crowd control, or provide buffs/debuffs. Sure many powersets do a bit of each but a given AT ALWAYS focuses on one with the sole exception of the EATs Epic ATs are explicitly meant for veteran players to get creative with, the fact they are available to a brand new account doesn't change how the AT was designed and bending over backwards to entertain the idea that 'you can do anything with any AT' is just being stubborn. There is a role, a job, for each AT, the fact you can can do a crappy job of other roles on it too doesn't change that. The only proof you need regarding these roles making sense is to put it in context. You are forming a TF and you know you aren't built enough to just solo it. Ask yourself, who do you want on your team? If you are putting any thought into that question and not just auto piloting on the last several years of 'i have 10 maxed out builds' or 'i only play +0x8' you are going to give the same answers. A Tanker, or Brute to hold aggro for your DPS, a Controller or Dominator to handle any spillover and lock down threats, and a Defender to buff everyone's defenses or make the mobs squishy with debuffs, then some pew pew in form of Blaster, Scrapper, Stalker, Sentinel, so on. CoX isnt a 'roleless game' it has roles, we used them back before players power crept so hard they can ignore 1/2 the game and go afk without dying. The fact that THIS, a free 3 million influence once a day, is controversial just floors me. Anyone who actually bothers to play the game long enough for money to mean anything, aka, reach level 50, thats peanuts. And before anyone accuses me of not being in touch with what a new player experiences, I solo one of my characters from 1 to 50 with no outside resources (including no P2W or other 'insider' knowledge) at least once every 6 months just to make sure I do know what its like.

Its not though, its literally as simple as 'remove the requirement for the reward logic' lol Worst case we all get free aether for nothing.