Koopak

I don't see anyone arguing that doesn't exist. What I see is people arguing that just because an AT CAN do a role to limited degree does not make the role the AT's designed purpose. I feel a good number of people here have grown so used to the power creeped nature of late CoH that they are unwilling to recognize that ATs have design intent. Comparing what you can do on +4x8 solo is not even close to a practical demonstration of how good say, a Defender, can control over a Controller, or Tank over a Tanker. In fact much of your survival would be coming from buffs and debuffs granted as a matter of incident in your support set. Instead of arguing anecdote, I think it would be more productive to look at the actual numeric capabilities. Defender has a MaxHP of 1017.4, and a MaxMaxHP of 1606.4 Assuming the Defender is able to reach both defense and resist caps, this means the Defender's effective health range is... 81,392‬ - 128,512‬ A Tanker has a Max HP of 1874.1 and a MaxMaxHP of 3534 Assuming the Tanker accomplishes the same through, likely through the same support the Defender needs, their effective health range is... 374,820‬ - 706,800‬ Even at a casual glance here we can see the TOUGHEST a Defender can become is ~34% the durability of a Tanker with the minimum max hp under similar conditions and ~18% of an hp capped Tanker. Okay I think that clarifies that NO a Defender is not equal to a Tanker. Just because the squishiest class in the game can be made tough enough to solo radios does not mean it is not still the squishiest class. Lets also remember a Defender lacks any aggro management tools, and has a Threat scalar of 1 vs Tanker's 4 and a Taunt scalar of 0.5 to the Tanker's of 1 (these are multiplicative. Lets look at Control next. Lets take Defender's Petrifying Gaze vs Controller Dark Grasp as they have the same mag Petrifying Gaze has a duration of 11.92s Dark Grasp has a duration of 22.35s Thus a Defender's mez lasts ~53% of a Controller's This carries through under equivalent enhancements as well. To further hammer this point home, Dark Grasp is avaialable at level 1, Petrifying Gaze is available at level 18. Dark Grasp has a base accuracy mod of 1.2, Petrifying Gaze has a mod of 1 Lastly lets examine this claim regarding Peacebringer's Glowing Touch. Glowing Touch has a heal of 188.9062, at 100% slotting this is 377.8124‬ with a recharge of 4 seconds. Here are the MaxHP values and MaxMaxHP values of all ATs and what % of a heal this represents to them. Archetype Base HP Max HP Cap %Heal of Base HP %Heal of Max HP Cap Blaster 1204.8 1847.3 ~31.35% ~20.45% Controller 1017.4 1606.4 ~37.13% ~23.51% Defender 1017.4 1606.4 ~37.13% ~23.51% Scrapper 1338.6 2409.5 ~28.22% ~15.68% Tanker 1874.1 3534 ~20.15% ~10.69% Peacebringer 1070.9 2409.5 ~35.27% ~15.68% Warshade 1070.9 2409.5 ~35.27% ~15.68% Sentinel 1204.8 2088.3 ~31.35% ~18.09% Brute 1499.3 3212.7 ~25.19% ~11.75% Stalker 1204.8 2088.3 ~31.35% ~18.09% Mastermind 803.2 1606.4 ~47.03% ~23.51% Dominator 1017.4 1606.4 ~37.13% ~23.51% Corruptor 1070.9 1606.4 ~35.27% ~23.51% Arachnos Widow 1070.9 2409.5 ~35.27% ~15.68% Arachnos Soldier 1070.9 2409.5 ~35.27% ~15.68% So I wont redo that table for your AoE heal example but lets just comapre the numbers, ill leave the rest of the math to the reader. Radiation Aura provides 133.8621 at 100% slotting thats 267.7242 which is 70.86% the healing of Glowing Touch. However unlike Glowing Touch, this is applied to the entire tean in a 25 ft radius rather than a single target. Target Cap for Radiation Aura is 255, but I'm going to say you are duoing. Healing two peoples thats 535.4484 hit points healed for ~141.72% the healing of Glowing Touch. Granted Glowing Touch has a recharge time of 4 seconds vs Radiation Aura's 8 seconds, but if you heal 3 people each cast you are now at 212% of Glowing Touch thus 12% more healing per second. Given Radiation Emission has 8 other powers further supporting this single heal, while Peacebringer can barely be argued to have 1 more. I find it diffcult to argue that a Peacebringer is at all on par with a Radiation Emission Defender in terms of support. If your argument can be boiled down to "My Stalker took the medicine pool power there for I am a Support" then I feel it lacks merit. Just because an AT can take powers that help perform a specific role, does not make that AT equivelent to ATs specialised in that role. By the same token, no ammount of Support tuning to your Stalker will ever make you stalker less than a solid source of DPS (short of deciding attack powers are for losers, which i dont think is terrible to argue is a very poor choice.) I think iv about exhausted what I can say here, but I feel that anyone who is arguing that roles dont exists or that ATs cant fill roles outside their intent particularly well is not really looking at this objectively. I will agree that not all ATs fit cleanly into the roles they are in, but those are the minority, Corruptor and SoA being good examples, and in each case a strong argument can be made for their chosen role. While Corruptor for example can absolutely be consdier Support as much as Ranged, the fact fo the matter is, its inherit is dedicated to more damage, and unlike a Defender its primary is an attack set. But to argue that ATs dont have roles, or that they can be blanketly bypassed, is just flatly not true. You will never get a Team lead running content that they know they might fail such as a 4 star, who does not consider these roles, and none of them will agree that a Defender will successfuly tank Rommulous for the Team or that a Peacebringer will be sufficent support to keep them alive.

Hey gang, I am pushing to gather data and builds for a new and improved pylon and clear speed sheet. To that effect I am posting regular bounties to encourage competition and push the limit. Thus without further to do. Bounty Posted! Prize: 2 billion influence Task: Post the best pylon/dummy time of any Dominator for the month of February. Read the rules and regulations and post your results here: Clear Speed Leaderboards (posts made in this thread will be processed if they meet the requirements listed.) Start Date/Time: 00:00 UTC, February 1st 2024 See in your time here! End Date/Time: 00:00 UTC, March 1st 2024 See in your time here! (In the links look in the non bold text with your location in it, if anyone has a better translation method, let me know.) Runs on the test server are valid provided they do not make use of any changes currently being tested, or the changes used are promoted to live.

Bounty Posted! Prize: 2 billion influence Task: Post the best pylon/dummy time of any Dominator for the month of February. Start Date/Time: 00:00 UTC, February 1st 2024 See in your time here! End Date/Time: 00:00 UTC, March 1st 2024 See in your time here! (In the links look in the non bold text with your location in it, if anyone has a better translation method, let me know.) Runs on the test server are valid provided they do not make use of any changes currently being tested, or the changes used are promoted to live.

Lurkers generally lurk and don't post until they feel strongly about something. Just a thought. Let's not fall down the rabbit hole of 'my side is bigger' or 'your side is intentionally organising' or whatever other tribalism. We will be here all year

NW doesn't need much and if anything the resist is just icing. The max hp is the big value. I don't feel NW was tight for picks personally once you cut unnecessary attacks. If it doesn't fit the ST rotation and doesn't provide meaningful utility, I don't take it. I also feel the aura toggles are highly over valued. Assault is worthless in a team with plenty of +damage, unless you are facing a lot of taunts. Tactics does nothing if you are already at hit cap save power against debuffs. I feel if you are attempting to optimize, there's loads to drop.

So I cant speak for the devs, but I can give some insight from closed testing (Where we often get the chance to talk with the devs directly). Granted my familiarity is mainly with widow. Generally speaking these were meant to be low hanging fruit changes to try and shore up how people already play the ATs, for instance Pain Tolerance already feeds into the pseudo tank playstyle that became popular earlier in HCing's life as a niche for Night Widow. The same goes for NW's crit and placate buffs to enable its stalker like playstyle. Fortunata had its control capabilities improved to better enable that side of the kit, and some tweaks to make both subATs have a bit better ranged experience. Soldiers were mostly cleaning up animations times so the set is less clunky and more importantly better performing. Animation times represent one half of the equation for whether an attack is good or not. There's also the tuning to Omega Maneuver to make it less ass to use as well. While the results are significant in some places, this is not meant as an overhaul of the ATs. Such an overhaul is still on the table in the FUTURE but the goal here was a big QoL pass mostly, address some pain points, and just make the VEATs a little more pleasant to play and build. A good example of this is the Confront change you highlighted, this actually just brings it into parity with other primary taunts in the game. Scrapper, Brute, and Tanker taunts all apply the same debuff already. VEATs were just the odd one out.

I included both times if that's okay

Shortlist leader boards updated.

Just to give some deets for people since I did some upper end testing. The placate and crit changes allow NW to claim a solid 10% dps gain. Given a good build could average 500 dps before that's a solid 550. Forts trended a little lower before and this helps set NW apart more damage wise. Once patch hits live I'll be reoptimozing my builds

As the proud owner of a Stalktroller.... do not.

What I outlined was a requirement for a reward being dropped later on. NOT a feature being removed. If you see it that way anyways then that proves the validity of the concept in my opinion. Doom already said my other point. A bunch of hypothesizing about what the other guy is gonna do with his team and his recruitment is just that, wild speculation. You cant 'revise it if there's any doubt' there will always be doubt, every update, every change, has had doubt and nay sayers. This, objectively, can only be proven one way or the other in live conditions.

I'm sorry i'm clearly not understanding your point. Are you trying to argue that if the diversity bonus goes live as is, and then is reworked to simply be a 1 aether reward for your first TF of the day regardless of team composition the community will 'scream bloody murder'?

I mean at this point given Cobalt's comments the options are 'bonus aether once a day' or 'no bonus aether' I really don't get the hate here. This is not going to drastically or even noticeably change player behavior past the first week or two imo. Its just free shit with a subtle push for people to maybe play their controller when they been seeing a lot of scrappers lately. If this gets cut its not a big loss to anyone who actually plays the game regularly, so I don't care really, but the hate is just... weird As for the new player education argument that this will hurt new players, I gotta ask. How? The roles defined are straightforward, and I strongly feel the community greatly overestimates the complexity of this game. There are CLEARLY 5 roles as stipulated, and frankly if anything id roll ranged and melee damage into one. There aren't any other actions to do. You tank, do damage, crowd control, or provide buffs/debuffs. Sure many powersets do a bit of each but a given AT ALWAYS focuses on one with the sole exception of the EATs Epic ATs are explicitly meant for veteran players to get creative with, the fact they are available to a brand new account doesn't change how the AT was designed and bending over backwards to entertain the idea that 'you can do anything with any AT' is just being stubborn. There is a role, a job, for each AT, the fact you can can do a crappy job of other roles on it too doesn't change that. The only proof you need regarding these roles making sense is to put it in context. You are forming a TF and you know you aren't built enough to just solo it. Ask yourself, who do you want on your team? If you are putting any thought into that question and not just auto piloting on the last several years of 'i have 10 maxed out builds' or 'i only play +0x8' you are going to give the same answers. A Tanker, or Brute to hold aggro for your DPS, a Controller or Dominator to handle any spillover and lock down threats, and a Defender to buff everyone's defenses or make the mobs squishy with debuffs, then some pew pew in form of Blaster, Scrapper, Stalker, Sentinel, so on. CoX isnt a 'roleless game' it has roles, we used them back before players power crept so hard they can ignore 1/2 the game and go afk without dying. The fact that THIS, a free 3 million influence once a day, is controversial just floors me. Anyone who actually bothers to play the game long enough for money to mean anything, aka, reach level 50, thats peanuts. And before anyone accuses me of not being in touch with what a new player experiences, I solo one of my characters from 1 to 50 with no outside resources (including no P2W or other 'insider' knowledge) at least once every 6 months just to make sure I do know what its like.

Its not though, its literally as simple as 'remove the requirement for the reward logic' lol Worst case we all get free aether for nothing.

Wild suggestion. Instead of us all speculating how this will ruin the game, or enrich it. Lets let it ride? Its not hard to change or remove and Cobalt has been extremely supportive and considerate of what id call some VERY bad takes that are completely at odds with any knowledge on game design or player behavior. If it works out and is good? YAY If its bad and need a reworked? I'm sure Cobalt will do so If its inexcusably terrible and leads to significant player issues? It'll be removed and im sure the reward can be weaved in in another way. Seriously 1 aether is nothing guys, a 1 star TF on min difficulty will get you several times that for less effort.

Bounty Payed Out! First Sub 60 Second Peace bringer Pylon Time 2 Billion Influence, 1,000 Prismatic Aether

It seems the forum format is not importing into mids correctly, i will manually reproduce if necessary but would it be possible for you to provide the datachunk? Edit - I have manually imported the build and added the datachunk to the sheet

It's fairly clear imo if you apply standard practice for Canon interpretation. Short version if it's in game, it's canon. If it's not in game but Is from an official source, it can be treated as canon except where contradicted by a canon source. If it's from an unofficial source, it's not canon, and of its from the mouth of God (aka dev amas) it can be considered canon except where contradicted

Oh and forgot to follow up, the possible exception was Enflame, which does persist and also seems to get some extra damage ticks out of the duration when shape shifting often. On changling this results in a solid boost to Enflames total damage.

In case you weren't aware @Laucianna there's a solid lore write up for Kheldians on the wiki. It doesn't get EVERYTHING but its about 99% of the known lore. Theres lots more one could infer from the Kheld portion of the lore bible but what was actually implemented vs that is so different that even on the standard of the story bibles its very apocryphal and i recommend only mining it for personal character history some rather than trying to take it as canon. https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Kheldian Some added notes. Explaining the concept of Epic ATs at the beginning and their origins as an unlock for veteran players may help set standards for new players. BP -res is for Cold and Negative only.

yeah even worst case if you give me a buildsave from the game i can import it myself

well if the builds exist ingame you can export them as text and dm them to me and i can import them and get the data chunk for mids that way. If not, well no dice

I need to clarify the rule set more, im partial to allowing easily obtained and functionally permeable temp powers because the ban on them was more about establishing baselines or otherwise making the tests fair back on live. HCing is a different beast. If you cant nail down the time or version thats fine, we can do unknown. The build however is 100% needed as thats the primary purpose of this, sharing builds and techniques to explore the limits of the system.

Gonna kick off the office mission sheet finally with my own submission, this is just a first attempt using my fort build. ( Someone please beat it ) Run Type: Office Mission Archetype: Fortunata Primary Powerset: Fortunata Training Secondary Powerset: Fortunata Teamwork Time in seconds: 376 ( 6:16 ) Hybrid: Yes Number of Runs: 1 Version: I27p6 Video Link: N/A Notes: Runners were an issue due to lack of burst AoE to cleave them down before AI trys to run Build: Attached and also added the data chunk below. (Either is acceptable as is the forum export method) Acinus v4 - Arachnos Fortunata.mbd

Clear Speed Leaderboards For a long time there has been a thread in the Scrapper sub forum that was dedicated to pylon and trapdoor times. However due to that thread being in the Scrapper forums its seen other ATs under represented and I personally had gripes about the formatting and standards for the data. I of course do not blame the creator, far from it, carrying the torch of a legacy standard for so long has certainly been a great service to the community. However I decided to throw together my own to encourage optimization and pushing the limits of CoX builds. Which you can see here! Need help filtering what you want in that mess? I made some filters just for you, In the spoiler below is how to access them. If you think of any you think would be useful, reply to this thread and let me know! So! What do you need to get your name on the board!? Simple, submit a time and build here in the forums and I will update the sheet weekly as I am able. Bonus points if you can provide a video of your run, but I understand that may be impractical for some. Multiple submissions are permitted. I will add a "Thanks!" reaction once it has been added to the sheet. So here are the rules. Divisions All entries are broken up into seven divisions in order to help differentiate various rule sets. They are organized loosely in order of descending 'power' with builds that are using nothing outside of their inherent kit being in the division six while builds with all the stops pulled out are in division zero. Below each Division is a spoiler tag with a basic explanation of the purpose and goal of the data category. Division 0: Anything goes except QA test powers. Division 1: Any temp that can be easily stockpiled and ran as part of normal play is legal, lores and inspirations are banned. Division 2: Same as Division 1 but pet temp powers like Signature Summons are banned. Division 3: Legacy pylon rules, all temps that effect damage output are banned. Judgment is banned. Division 4: Any power not available in the most restrictive endgame content (currently 4 star hardmode) is banned. Division 5: No temps or incarnates that provide anything but defense, resistance and hp, this includes no endurance tools Division 6: All powers obtained from sources other than leveling up are banned. Pylon/Dummy Times Solo kill a Vanguard Training Pylon in the RWZ or the dummy summoned by the Mobile Dummy Combatant accolade power from Dr. Aeon (The new RWZ overhaul has added these pylons next to the base) You may not have outside help that in any way effects your damage output with the exception of endurance. No accuracy, recharge or damage buffs. (This includes passive buffs such as Stalker crit or Kheldian inherits) No banned powers may be used. You must specify if your Hybrid is used actively (clicked) You must specify how many runs if submitting an average. You MUST provide a mids build (file or datachunk preferred) to have your record submitted, no build secrets here. If you cannot use mids, you may submit the contents of a /buildsavefile Time starts at the first point of damage dealt, and ends when the pylon/dummy is destroyed. Bonus points for a video. Pet users if possible please provide a combat log from Carnifax or Cyclops so I may calculate the difference in pet performance that purple patch would apply against an AV. Your time will be listed as is regardless, but a secondary time showing effect vs a true AV will also be included if a combat log is provided. Runs on the test server are valid provided they do not make use of any changes currently being tested, or the changes used are promoted to live. Should Please declare whether the run is sustainable or not. A run is consisted sustained if it can be maintained for a full two minutes. Office Mission Times Solo clear Galaxy Brain's Office Mission Simulator (Arc ID: 57885, Test Server Arc ID: 23878) Difficulty must be +0x8, if people submit multiple +4x8s I'll add a sheet for it. You may not have any other characters on the map. No banned powers may be used. You must specify if your Hybrid is used actively (clicked) You must specify how many runs if submitting an average. You MUST provide a mids build to have your record submitted, no build secrets here. If you cannot use mids, you may submit the contents of a /buildsavefile Time starts when you finish loading into the mission and ends when the missions completes and you are allowed to exit. Bonus points for a video. Runs on the test server are valid provided they do not make use of any changes currently being tested, or the changes used are promoted to live. Banned Powers Expand the division you are interested in. There lists are not exhaustive and will be expanded as necessary. If you are ever in doubt, don't be afraid to ask here or to DM me. Division 0 Division 1 Division 2 Division 3 Division 4 Division 5 Division 6 While not required, use of the following template is greatly appreciated. Please limit one submission per template use. Submission Template: Run Type: (required) Division: (required) Archetype: (required) Primary Powerset: (required) Secondary Powerset: (required) Time in seconds: (required) Burst: (whether the run is burst or sustained dps, burst is any run using powers with a cooldown above 120s that is not perma) Hybrid: (required, type and if clicked) Build is usable for General Purpose: (required, yes or no, based on the judgment of the submitter) Number of Runs Averaged Together: (If greater than one) Version: (If older than date of submission, if unknown, specify. Be sure to specify test server builds.) Video Link: (if available) Notes: (Any added details you'd like to add, please include any temp powers violating the above rules here) Build: (required) Short List Leaderboard Bellow are the current top times by AT See the full list here! Pylon/Dummy Best in show BRADICAL (Mastermind): 00:10 / 3962.469dps Office Mission Sim Best in show ScarySai (Crab Spider): 03:11 Bounties! Periodically I may place bounties for certain achievements, these will take the form of in game rewards. Active and Claimed bounties will be listed below. Anyone else may place bounties as well and I will facilitate them as best able. Active: Best Division 5 Open Pylon Time November 2024 Reward: 2 Billion Influence Posted By: Koopak Claimed: