Warlawk

Thugs was the best all arounder during the leveling process I think and offered the smoothest performance. I think I actually like Demons better but that's thematic more than anything else. Between Bots/Thugs/Demons it would be tough to pick a top performer as they all have slightly different quirks. Cross posted by suggestion of CR actually so I think I'll just let it be for the moment. Actually, would you mind if I threw a link to your time mini-guide in the OP?

This is actually part of the reason I wanted to start this post. There are lots of resources out there with people showcasing their budget build or their finished build but very little information actually documenting their results in hard figures and nothing comparing different builds directly. Personally, I started with the Spines/Fire and I did the occasional ticket farm while leveling to be able to buy the SOs I needed to keep myself going. I started with the budget build that was pinned in the HC discord at the time and moved up from there. I'm going to link to your post here with the build, it looks like a very solid budget version. I'll also add a few notes about the sets you've used to fill things in since they should be pretty universal and able to be ported between the builds fairly easily. Thank you for contributing! In mids go to the Import/Export option, my posts use the Short Forum Export option.

I just want to chime in and say I would love to see this left as is or the base teleport power with reduced cast time and reduced cooldown.

We all know that time is amazing. It has an amazing toolkit and is probably slightly overtuned. I've been working on a project to compare the various primary sets from a common baseline secondary and decided on time since it works well with everything and is a very versatile and well performing set, it is a fantastic set for people just checking out mastermind for the first time as well. This is intended to be a comparison of how they feel to level and play, not a number-crunch-pylon-speed-test sort of guide. Those are very valuable and have their place, but this thread is not that place. For each set I will present my thoughts, my experiences leveling and playing it and then a complete IO build for it. ***This thread is currently a WIP, I am still in process of leveling some of the builds. Each specific build section will contain the info for how far I have actually played that set.*** Disclaimer here at the beginning. I am presenting my experience and opinions, not fact. This guide represents my outlooks and approach to playing masterminds. It is not the only way, the right way or anything other than my way. Once I am leveled up enough to have all my pets I almost exclusively solo and that will be reflected in my build choices. I consider most primary set attacks to be a trap. There are exceptions but most of them are terrible and a waste of your time that will do nothing but waste your endurance. I also consider Masterminds to be complete and actually ready to play NO EARLIER than level 26, more likely 32. These are the levels for your T3 pet and the final pet upgrade respectively. In the early levels you will feel weak and soloing is often tedious. My advice for early level play is actually to join teams and focus on keeping your pets out of doorways and using your support abilities to supercharge the team. Important note for all builds. Power Boost is a short duration buff but any clicky powers will retain the boost for their entire duration. This equates to an extra ~6% defense and ~5 ToHit on your Farsight and is key to keeping your defenses and pet accuracy topped off once you have it. You will see a lot of crossover on slotting between the builds as they all have a similar goal. S/L defense will cover something like 90% of the enemy attacks in the game, so the goal is to softcap S/L defense and then get Perma Hasten and as close to perma Chronoshift as possible without sacrificing too much. This provides a universal survivable baseline for the MM themselves and lets me judge how the different primary sets perform. Beasts/Time (Not yet rolled) Demon Summoning/Time (Played to 50) Mercenaries/Time (Played to 34) Necromancy/Time (Played to 50) Ninjas/Time (Played to 46) Robotics/Time (Played to 50) Thugs/Time (Played to 50) For any prospective new Mastermind players trying out the AT I highly reccommend the Numpad bind controls listed in my signature. I then program my extra mouse buttons to trigger the most commonly used binds but I like having the full set available for when I really want to finesse something. I am open to any questions or commentary!

We all know that time is amazing. It has an amazing toolkit and is probably slightly overtuned. I've been working on a project to compare the various primary sets from a common baseline secondary and decided on time since it works well with everything and is a very versatile and well performing set, it is a fantastic set for people just checking out mastermind for the first time as well. This is intended to be a comparison of how they feel to level and play, not a number-crunch-pylon-speed-test sort of guide. Those are very valuable and have their place, but this thread is not that place. For each set I will present my thoughts, my experiences leveling and playing it and then a complete IO build for it. ***This thread is currently a WIP, I am still in process of leveling some of the builds. Each specific build section will contain the info for how far I have actually played that set.*** Disclaimer here at the beginning. I am presenting my experience and opinions, not fact. This guide represents my outlooks and approach to playing masterminds. It is not the only way, the right way or anything other than my way. Once I am leveled up enough to have all my pets I almost exclusively solo and that will be reflected in my build choices. I consider most primary set attacks to be a trap. There are exceptions but most of them are terrible and a waste of your time that will do nothing but waste your endurance. I also consider Masterminds to be complete and actually ready to play NO EARLIER than level 22, more likely 26. These are the levels for your T3 pet and the final pet upgrade respectively. In the early levels you will feel weak and soloing is often tedious. My advice for early level play is actually to join teams and focus on keeping your pets out of doorways and using your support abilities to supercharge the team. Important note for all builds. Power Boost is a short duration buff but any clicky powers will retain the boost for their entire duration. This equates to an extra ~6% defense and ~5 ToHit on your Farsight and is key to keeping your defenses and pet accuracy topped off once you have it. You will see a lot of crossover on slotting between the builds as they all have a similar goal. S/L defense will cover something like 90% of the enemy attacks in the game, so the goal is to softcap S/L defense Changes to defense have reduced the value of S/L defense, but most builds will end up softcapped because Scorpion Shield is a pre-req for getting Power Boost which is hugely impactful, and then get Perma Hasten and as close to perma Chronoshift as possible without sacrificing too much. This provides a universal survivable baseline for the MM themselves and lets me judge how the different primary sets perform. @Bopper has an excellent Guide to /Time which really does a fantastic job of looking at and breaking down the strengths of the set and reviewing each power specifically. Well worth a read if you're preparing to play the set for the first time. Beasts/Time (Played to 40) Demon Summoning/Time (Played to 50) Mercenaries/Time (Played to 50) Updated for 27.6 Necromancy/Time (Played to 50) Updated for 27.6 Ninjas/Time (Played to 50) Updated for 27.6 Robotics/Time (Played to 50) Updated for 27.6 Thugs/Time (Played to 50) Updated for 27.6 For any prospective new Mastermind players trying out the AT I highly reccommend the Numpad bind controls listed in my signature. I then program my extra mouse buttons to trigger the most commonly used binds but I like having the full set available for when I really want to finesse something. I am open to any questions or commentary! Mastermind (Ninjas - Time Manipulation).mbd Mastermind (Mercenaries - Time Manipulation).mbd Mastermind (Robotics - Time Manipulation).mbd Mastermind (Necromancy - Time Manipulation).mbd Mastermind (Thugs - Time Manipulation).mbd

Added an update to the OP from @12thPower with some great info about changing up slotting to line up your burst cooldowns and get a free floating slot out of the deal! Great catch man, thanks for sharing!

So, it hasn't been brought up in the thread specifically... that much defense is overkill. Softcap is 45% defense. While having a bit of a cushion is nice for some content and it's higher in Incarnate content the return on your investment is generally just not worth it. Doubly so when you account for the fact you'll be running Time' juncture for additional -tohit on enemies. S/L defense covers 90% of the things in the game, so investing heavily to cap the others usually is not worth it. The low rech in the build hurts me. This is how I went about building mine. I haven't done incarnate stuff with it as I have other MMs I want to get finished up before I really settle into one, but it was a breeze to level to 50. Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.2 https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer Click this DataLink to open the build! Level 50 Magic Mastermind Primary Power Set: Demon Summoning Secondary Power Set: Time Manipulation Power Pool: Leadership Power Pool: Leaping Power Pool: Speed Power Pool: Flight Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery Villain Profile: Level 1: Summon Demonlings -- SlbAll-Build%(A), SvrRgh-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(3), BldMnd-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(3), BldMnd-Acc/Dmg(5), SprMarofS-Acc/Dmg(5), SprMarofS-EndRdx/+Resist/+Regen(7) Level 1: Time Crawl -- CrtSpd-Acc/EndRdx(A) Level 2: Temporal Mending -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(9), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(9), Prv-Heal/Rchg(11), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(11), Prv-Absorb%(13) Level 4: Time's Juncture -- ImpSwf-Dam%(A), DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb(17), DarWtcDsp-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(48), DarWtcDsp-Rchg/EndRdx(48), DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(48) Level 6: Enchant Demon -- EndRdx-I(A) Level 8: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(17), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(19), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(50) Level 10: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A) Level 12: Summon Demons -- EdcoftheM-PetDef(A), EdcoftheM-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(19), SvrRgh-Dmg/EndRdx(21), SvrRgh-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(21), BldMnd-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(23), BldMnd-Acc/Dmg(23) Level 14: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A) Level 16: Distortion Field -- NrnSht-Dam%(A), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(25), GldNet-Dam%(25), Lck-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(27), GhsWdwEmb-Acc/Hold/Rchg(27), UnbCns-Dam%(29) Level 18: Hell on Earth -- ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), SvrRgh-PetResDam(29), ExpRnf-+Res(Pets)(31), CaltoArm-+Def(Pets)(31), CaltoArm-Acc/Rchg(31), CaltoArm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33) Level 20: Time Stop -- BslGaz-Acc/Hold(A), BslGaz-Acc/Rchg(33), BslGaz-Rchg/Hold(33), BslGaz-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(34) Level 22: Tactics -- AdjTrg-ToHit/Rchg(A), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(34), AdjTrg-EndRdx/Rchg(34), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx(36), AdjTrg-Rchg(36), AdjTrg-ToHit(50) Level 24: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(36) Level 26: Summon Demon Prince -- ImpSwf-Dam%(A), SvrRgh-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37), SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), SprCmmoft-Rchg/PetAoEDef(39), SprCmmoft-Dmg/EndRdx(39) Level 28: Farsight -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(39), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg(40), Rct-Def/Rchg(40), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Rct-ResDam%(42) Level 30: Hover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(50) Level 32: Abyssal Empowerment -- EndRdx-I(A) Level 35: Slowed Response -- AchHee-ResDeb%(A), TchofLadG-%Dam(42), TchofLadG-DefDeb/Rchg/EndRdx(42), TchofLadG-DefDeb/Rchg(43), TchofLadG-Rchg/EndRdx(43), ShlBrk-%Dam(43) Level 38: Chrono Shift -- EffAdp-EndMod/Rchg(A), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux(45), Pnc-EndRdx/Rchg(45), Pnc-Heal/Rchg(45), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(46), Pnc-Heal(46) Level 41: Scorpion Shield -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(46) Level 44: Power Boost -- EndRdx-I(A) Level 47: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A) Level 49: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A) Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A) Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A), Clr-EndRdx(7) Level 1: Supremacy Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A) Level 4: Ninja Run Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A) Level 2: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(13), Pnc-Heal/+End(15) Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A) Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(15) ------------

And this is why I don't generally hit up the math side of things. I did not. That should put T1 around 91% to hit, much better.

I updated the OP with earning numbers for the more finished incarnate builds for both the SS and the Savage. I think the savage would likely pull ahead with more refined play than just a macro running but it's still rock solid. I have an Elec Melee/Fire that I PLd to 50 but I still need to buy all the IOs and get some incarnates going for him, just curious to see how it will compare.

You should post the build if you're willing! I consider myself a competent builder but I'm usually not an innovator or master by any means so I'm always on the lookout for builds to blatantly rip off ideas from that will inspire me with new ideas! 😁

The full methodology should be laid out in the beginning of the post under the "assumptions are made" section. This was done with herostats running from the time you zone into the first mission until you click exit on the last mission. No pit stops were made to restock reds. If you do things differently that's fine just note such in your post!

Will try to remember to do some testing on Degen interface soon. Endurance should stabilize a bit with T1-2 Ageless and be a complete non issue with T3-4. Yeah, I wouldn't go XP off until you're satisfied with your incarnates. You can change the setting any time you want though so if you need some cash fast for blow and hooke... groceries or something you can switch it then do more farming for vet XP later. How complete is your build in regards to incarnates and such? I feel like this could be a great gain on a build that's still in progress but with a finished build and T4 musculature you ride so close to the damage cap much of the time that the BU proc would be wasted. You shouldn't need the accuracy and the damage would be overcapped. Just something to keep in mind as you perfect your build, pop that damage bonus attribute monitor up on screen and keep an eye on it. EDIT: Tested out Degenerative on the rad/fire and saw a jump from 2.19M inf/minute to 2.288 so it's an improvement for sure.

This, AE exemplaring seems a little quirky sometimes.

I did a couple of respecs for updated builds today. The spines/fire build got an overhaul and has climbed back to top spot for inf/minute. The difference between rad and Spines is so close it's easily within variance for mob placement and RNG. I've updated the OP with the new inf earnings and the new build. I also did a respec on the rad/fire but it was a complete wash on effectiveness. It was clocking 2.19 mil inf/minute which again is well within the variance for RNG and mob placement. No updates to the OP on this since there was no appreciable change. Will probably focus on getting some more incarnates worked up for the Savage and SS so I can rerun their numbers from a more competitive spot in the coming week.

Defenses look good, the main thing that would worry me is the global rech feeling a bit low. I think this would probably be better for content outside of AE than most dedicated farming builds but you're going to end up having to use those cones in your core attack chain I think while farming. It's possible (likely) that my own bias against cones in kicking in, but I'm not a fan of that. Should do pretty well though, I wouldn't anticipate any issues there really.

Import/Export and choose either short or long forum export. So I can't get Herostats to work on the test server right now, I ran it through a couple of the asteroid maps to get a feel for it. The damage is good but it has to give up a ton of recharge to get enough defense/resist to do the job. This keeps Blizzard and Bonfire from recharging as fast as you need them to move between packs. Even rotating them and actually paying attention to my farming instead of letting the macro run I feel like they were only up for 3/5 groups or so. Now, that speaks well for the raw damage output but it means there are tons of runners. The damage is there for sure but the mob scatter is painful and plentiful. The thing with Herostats not working on test is known and posted so hopefully I'll be able to run some hard numbers on it soon. Might tinker with the build a little bit to see how far it can be pushed. All those plain level 50 recharge hurts my sensibilities! 😉 Also, about to update the OP with a WIP SS/Fire Broot

I was actually coming here for exactly the same thing. Will be keeping an eye on the thread.

Thanks! I've enjoyed doing it. I am open to trying out farm builds like that, but I don't know the builds. If someone wanted to PM them to me or send it through discord (Warlawk#1697) I would be happy to run some farm tests on them but I would need the build and some general information on playing it. The blaster I must admit confuses me a little. It has no innate fire or s/l defense or resist, no aoe immobilize and no taunt aura. Is the plan just to utilize all the slow and blow them up before they scatter too badly? I assume this farms s/l since getting meaningful fire resist and defense isn't likely to go well. If that's the case it would have the same issue as other s/l farmers in that there isn't a good 49 map right now. Fire/kin I understand the core in that you use the aoe immob with hot feet/fulcrum shift. Most that I've seen are also s/l farmers. Open to any suggestions or additional info here! Yeah part of the issue there is lost DPS, you won't have a gapless chain with only the three AOEs, there will be down time. Pyre is certainly more thematic with some trade offs. Fireball is slightly better DPA at 45.68 vs Ball Lighting at 39.76. Same range, Cooldown, End cost etc. The big trade off being that fireball requires three picks while ball lightning is two. Additionally Electric fences and Ball lightning allows you to slot two targeted AOE sets so you can grab Ragnarok and the Annihilation res debuff proc in Ball lighting while stuffing superior frozen blast into fences for that huge 7.5% fire defense. Fences is pretty much the bottom priority attack and could easily be removed from the rotation, it's more the extra set space and only requiring two power choices instead of three. Being able to milk that much fire defense out of a single set as well as get the 10% rech and -res proc into your core attack chain frees up a lot of build pressure.

I would grind like a stripper paying for college to get an Aloha Slot!

Yeah you need a mission that locks you to level 49 as the cap, there is no way to do it yourself that I am aware of. The arc I listed clamps you to level 49 and when you click on an AE mission to see the full description you can tell at a glance by looking at the max level. If it lists 54 as the max level that puts you at level 50 and allows for your personal setting of up to +4 so anything that lists a max level of 53 will clamp you to 49. Thank you sir! I would place the Spines and Rad equally easy to play. Savage takes a little more attention since ideally you want to be utilizing Leap at a distance instead of as a pbaoe so it takes a little more management but it can do just fine as a simple pbaoe point and click as well, that's how I usually play it... see Statement #1 lol. In regards to the cone in Rad... I actually had to crack open the build to verify it even had one. It's not part of the rotation, simply a mule for the set to grab +damage, +acc and +rech set bonuses. Keeping Fusion, Fiery Embrace, Hasten and Ageless active on cooldown should allow you to have a pretty much gapless rotation using Ion judgement, Burn, Atom Smasher, Ball Lightning and Electric Fences so the cone is completely unneeded which is good because it's a pretty terrible ability. 50 degree range 7 is rough to hit much with, though if you just fired it off in the middle of a huge pile when you're farming I guess that wouldn't matter much. SS/Fire/Mu is something I actually have been itching to roll and will probably do so in the next week or two. Part of the reason Mu is always chosen for farming instead of Pyre is that for two power picks you get two aoes. Pyre requires three picks to get one aoe.

Strongman is core, you want radial for the untouchable buff pet. I've added some additional information about incarnate choices and why they're made, insps and difficulty settings.

I believe that he means the XP specifically for opening up the incarnate slots (Lore, Judgement etc) as you still get that xp even with normal xp shut off, but you won't get the vet levels for your freebie threads and emp merits. In regards to the OP, yeah there's a balance to be struck. If you don't have your alpha level shift yet and don't have T3+ in your important incarnates, running at +4 is usually not efficient. +3 or even +2 may be a better option that would net you more inf/hour. Best bet would be to grab Herostats and do a couple runs on different difficulties while tracking your inf/min or inf/hour stat.

No, I believe it's tied to exemplaring, possibly with the XP set to off. Considering the inf value of a minion is at 14k+ and the SOs sell for 10K-ish I think that the time required to scroll and sell them to the vendor instead of getting back to farming faster was literally a loss of inf gain lol.

Well said all around. I completely support tweaking rage numbers for a scrapper port but do not support changing rage to a build up style power. Rage is what makes SS different from other sets, don't change that. In regards to balance, this can be a deceptive thing. When I play a melee AT on a team and jump in to take alphas and wreck faces, even when I am running a full IO build with defense cap at level 30 I know in my heart of hearts that while I look impressive, the support ATs actually have a bigger impact than I do. When I play a support/ranged DPS I really appreciate the people taking the alpha and distracting enemies for me while I act the enabler and let them smash face with tons of -res/def/CC/whatevs. A character can be OP without being overshadowing.

I'm just curious what your attraction is to the FF set? I'm not by any means trying to discourage you from playing it but would like to suggest a possible alternative in Cold Domination. FF will have a very slight edge in +def since Dispersion bubble has more Def than Arctic Fog. The rest of the FF set is generally considered to be a little lackluster. It is a set from the launch of the game I believe and it shows its age. Cold will have the same 'bubble' defense shields (thank the lords for the minimal FX option!) and the rest of the set offers far more utility than the KB tricks that FF focuses on. If FF is your thing or you just want to play FF or whatever, do it! Just wanted to throw out a possible alternative that has a lot of utility but doesn't see much play.