Rudra

If you want your non-flier character to fly without using Fly or Mystic Flight for being a non-flier, then use a jetpack, Void Skiff, Rocketboard, or Flying Carpet. If you want your character to fly without a visual external device to provide that flight, then take Fly or Mystic Flight. I'm tired of arguing in circles. I'm very much against a no jetpack version of jetpack. I hope the devs agree and decide to not bother making one.

Your request is about taking away a visual FX. So comparing the ability to add a visual FX is not the same thing.

They exist, are available as early as level 4, and take a single power choice with no prerequisites to get. Using your feral demon as an example, if he/she/them/it can float in mid-air and wail on a flying target and chase it through the air as needed to wail on it and it isn't using some sort of external device to do so, then it can fly. It isn't using a jetpack, it is using an inherent ability to fly. You chose to not give the demon a fly power, so that leaves it using an external means of flight, in this case, a jetpack. Edit: And since said feral demon can presumably complete any missions given in the game, then said demon is obviously smart enough to strap on a jetpack and go. Because other tasks in the game that our characters do automatically are decidedly more complex.

I genuinely do not understand this argument. What makes a flight power with no FX worse than one with FX? The fact that no visual FX flight powers already exist and are readily available for use.

Agreed. I doubt anyone would complain about more versions of jetpacks being available. (It's the no jetpack version of jetpack that those of us arguing against are against.)

Yes. Is that a problem? If you are fine with a non-flying character just arbitrarily flying and beating the crap out of targets but are not fine with a non-flying character using an external means of flying to beat the crap out of a target, that's you. It makes absolutely no sense, but that's your choice. I'm still against a no jetpack version of jetpack though.

Then take Super Jump. Any enemy that flies beyond Super Jump's reach is just running away. Let them run and finish them later. Edit: And yes, I've fought fliers with non-fliers this way. On numerous occasions. Though normally I'm only using Combat Jumping instead of Super Jump to deal with them.

As for your feral demon, I'd say just take Void Skiff. The demon can still focus power below himself/herself/themselves/itself. Then just turn it off when you get to where you want to go.

Okay. I missed that. I apologize.

THERE's the quote I was trying for!!!

🤣🤣🤣 You "answered" by going back to edit your post after the question was asked and then quoting yourself!!!! That's funny as hell! I mean, aside from the fact it doesn't actually answer @ClawsandEffect's question..... (Edit: Dang it. The quote didn't take?!) No.... that would be the argument you are making: that you can't stand a visual so you want it to go away so you don't have to see it so you can keep using a flight power that doesn't use up a power choice slot.

Okay. Done. Easy. Next?

So how is jetpack not fitting your theme then? If your characters that fly as part of their powerset take Fly or Mystic Flight and the characters that don't have flight as part of their powerset buy the jetpack, then things are already working the way you want. Characters that don't have flight as one of their own powers went out and bought a jetpack for when they suddenly find themselves needing it. It fits your theme then.

Huh, are you sure? Because I just visited the tailor and I can't even find Athletic Run to do anything with on a character I bought it from the vendor for. So I can't cusotmize my Athletic Run at all. How are you doing it? Yep, you can buy a Goldbricker jetpack and wear a Goldbricker jetpack to fly around and you can buy a Longbow jetpack and wear a Longbow jetpack to fly around and you can buy a Jingle Jetpack and wear a Christmas-y jetpack to fly around and you can buy a standard jetpack and wear a standard jetpack to fly around. All makes sense to me. So if you want a magic-themed jetpack, describe it and maybe the devs will make it. A no jetpack version of jetpack though is called Fly or Mystic Flight.

Do you know what the difference between buying Beast Run, Athletic Run, or Ninja Run versus buying Jetpack is? There isn't one. Beast Run locks your character into a bestial stance and movement while it is active, because it is a beast run. Ninja Run locks your character into a stylized anime ninja stance and movement while it is active, because it is a ninja run. Athletic Run lacks those factors because it is athleticism that is not on par with any super powers. Jetpack locks you into a jetpack because it is a jetpack. (Edit: If you want a flight power that you can customize, then take Fly or Mystic Flight.) All Temp Powers have a specific visual tied to their name and function. As for your Willpower Scrapper comparison? You are comparing a character's inherent AT powers to a temp power. Apples to oranges.

That is what the power slots are for.

Because you are buying a jetpack. It is not an inherent to character power. It is a jetpack you bought from a vendor.

I'm neither trolling nor lacking in understanding in this thread. My point is simple: If you want an alternate jetpack, then that is fine. Provide something to detail what you want. If you want no jetpack, then get Fly or Mystic Flight. To me, it's that simple. Why should anyone bother taking Fly or Mystic Flight if they can get the same power at a very slight increased END cost from P2W?

We have hoods. What's your point? (Edit: And hats and hoods are not the same thing.) Edit again: Look, if you want an obviously magic themed jetpack that is not the Jingle Jet, no one is going to say no. Describe it. Provide a picture of what you are thinking. Give a reference.

No, if you want alternate visuals for the jetpack, then fine. If you want no visuals, then use what we already have available. Fly and Mystic Flight have no required visuals.

Have you thought about the Kris Kringle jetpack ala the Holiday Rocket Pack ala the Jingle Jet available in the Pocket D chalet? It's a magic jetpack. (Edit: And it lasts for 30 days of use per purchase.)

No. Just no. Just like I am opposed to combining all invention salvage into just Common, Uncommon, and Rare, I am opposed to generic-ifying incarnate salvage. Generic crafting is boring.

Then either I respec'ed those characters and forgot, or something happened to my characters and not yours. Either way, like I said in the PM, color me jealous.

No, with the request for a model-less jetpack, you are asking to get the Fly or Mystic Flight power without having to spend the power slot to get it. A natural character uses whatever that character's skills enable him/her/them/it to use. Doesn't matter if its magic, tech, Horror From Beyond Veil, or anything else. A mutant also uses tech. There is a dragon-themed villainous in Marvel comics who uses technology for her flight and her mutant powered blasts to attack. Science characters have no problem using technology. Technology is derived from science after all. Magic characters also use technology, though their power sources are arcane in nature. Technomancy is a thing. Same thing for characters finding, buying, being given, or otherwise possessing magic when their origin isn't magic. Same thing with mutation powers. Magic, science, and technology are commonly known to be used to cause intentional or unintentional mutations in others. So on and so forth. Your theme and the ability of your character to make use of available items in the game is entirely up to you, but to me, it looks like you are being willfully blind to just how expansive your theme actually is. Again, I am perfectly fine with alternate types of jetpacks. I would be very happy if the Void Skiff, Rocketboard, and Flying Carpet got the animations they needed to stop locking out player powers. A no jetpack version of the jetpack though is out of the question to me though.

So instead you came up with Wall of Spoilers. And I'm still trying to figure parts of it out....