oedipus_tex

I agree with Coyote. If you switched to the Mu APP you'd lose Energy Transfer but gain Power Sink and a pet with a minor (not great but not useless) heal, plus an AoE blast with endurance and recovery drain. You have Power Boost, and Power Boosted Power Sink is absolutely sick. You can probably tank the endurance of anything except for a AV or GM in one click. This is useful because Power Sink is autohit(!) and guarantees nothing can take a swing at you when you close in with your attacks. IMO Energy Transfer is just a poor power overall, but especially paired with any Dominator secondary that can't heal itself reliably. (That's pretty much just Psi or Dark.)

Conceptually it's just always bothered me that a set that is called Super Reflexes doesn't have any movement powers for quick positioning. The set that does is Shield Defense, for some reason.

I think we need a little of both. Make mezz not such an off/on switch for squishies, but also have some mezzes with some actual chance of affecting armored archetypes and squishies after they've built for mezz. There's currently very little in between, especially if you play a character with some kind of offensive toggle.

Dom or Controller is fine.

The current game cuts you off by force after the 16th enemy. This would be a way to have more than 16 enemies attack at once. I think the current system where, when a player aggros the whole map, three quarters of the enemies stand around and patiently wait their turn is more jarring. The existence of a Start Line means for some sets and archetypes the penalty may not begin until the 16th enemy. I didn't post exact numbers because I don't have them. This post was a theory about incorporating Flanking mechanics found in some other RPGs into some encounters of the game. In those other RPGs you can still face hordes at once. They just don't (typically) cut you off after too many enemies get involved.

I wonder what it is they feel is problematic about the power. I guess could be anything and we will find out if they release the set. FWIW PA wouldn't be the only Dominator with an invincible pet. Plant also has one, it just doesn't hold aggro consistently, so its role is different. Same basic concept though.

Sounds great. 🙂 Yes, any secondary for Dominator or Controller. You can pre-post your character to this thread, or you can surprise us. 🙂

Come with whatever. We'll see what turns up. I hope everyone picks Arctic Air at level 6 though because the stacked AAs are something I've always wanted to see. 🙂

If everyone is down I think it might be interesting if we all brought relatively new characters for the first outting, so we can see how we do with the action not being dominated by Judgment/Destiny. If we do later meet ups, we can maybe bring out big guys. How does this Friday at 9 PM EST on the Everlasting server sound? We can start with a quick Death from Below and work our way from there. Arctic Air comes at level 6 so we should be a cloud of confusion very early on. If we can get everyone to level 8, perhaps we run Positron 1 after that as our first real undertaking. FYI my in game handle is @pinball_blizzard.

Actually I hit a key that posted that post mid sentence before I could finish. 🙂 What I was going to say is that to me it is a pain point for Force Field that City of Heroes uses a 1d20 crit system, where a roll of 1 is always miss and a roll of 20 is always a hit. That puts limitations on the max effectiveness of a power set that relies mostly on Defense. The available choices for additional mitigation are +Max Hp, +Resistance, and +Absorb. Of those,+Absorb is both the most thematic, and also the least problematic in terms of running into caps that prevent it from being useful on the more heavily armored archetypes. One thing I think is that Force Field was always meant to be among the most heavily armored of power sets. It's not a shift in focus at all for me to picture it with more layered defenses that are representative of the modern game. Remember that when Force Field came out, prior to IOs, a significant part of its appeal was it could put Defense on a Resistance Tank or Scrapper and make them gods. That ability has been largely lost in the current era.

I think we may just differ in how we define pain points. To me, the Defense in Forc

In fairness, so can a Blaster, because PFF is available in their tertiary pools.

The Absorb mechanic was new when the plug was pulled on the game, so it was never proliferated to other sets. I thought I remembered the developers talking about adding it to Force Field but can't be sure. Thematically it always made sense to me anyway. I actually find the objection to it surprising, but there are all kinds of players. In any case I never read Absorb as about healing. Absorb currently exists in several of the Blaster secondaries. Temporal and Ice are examples. In those sets the power is definitely about preventing and not healing damage, because the power is distinguished from the Heal/Regen versions of the power that do heal you. Low intensity, fast reapplication Absorb serves as a hit point barrier that typically deals well with DoTs and slow damage but does little to deter alpha strikes. A Blaster with Temporal Manipulation can stand in a small fire and take no damage at all, then die instantly from a tankswipe.

We are in agreement and that is what this proposal is about. That's what't this model is, a system to add a combat statistic that makes some archetypes and power sets better at handling multiple opponents than others. You seem to believe this is about finding a way to kill players unfairly. Maybe that's a problem with how I worded it In fact its about a way to kill them less often and in ways that are fairer. Here's a math question. If a player is at 45% defense and against 16 enemies and I reduce his defense by just 5%, how much extra damage does that character take? The answer right now is double damage against every single enemy. What that means in effect is that even the tiniest reduction in a character's defense will squash them in seconds. That puts a content developer in a real quagmire. The source of this math problem goes back to what was actually originally an oversight in City of Heroe's dodge chances. The oversight is so embedded in the game now that addressing it would require a City of Heroes 2. To put the problem into old school tabletop terms, all of the enemies are kobolds swinging axes that will hit on a natural 20 and miss on a 1. So the way you address this is the way you deal with it in a 1d20 system. You add flanking so that each individual enemy has a somewhat different chance to hit. Then, to make sure characters who are supposed to be good at dealing with multiple opponents do so, you use a Multi Opponent skill or statistic to offset the disadvantage. The result is some characters who deal better with Multiple Opponents. And a system where adding or taking away 1 point of defense (5% in City of Heroes terms) doesn't destroy a character instantly. The system isn't something I invented. It's widely used in the gaming industry to address the curse of the "miss on 1."

Here's some possible edits to the build. This assumes the Spiritual Alpha slot is selected for the extra Recharge. I think that suits this particular build style well. No Super Speed, but with Arctic Fog +Sprint you're invisible anyway. You can use Sprint with Ninja Leap with no worries. The knock protection comes from x3 Gladiator's Armor. BTW something I forgot is the recharge on Soul Drain in the Soul pool is x2 longer than the one in the Dark Mastery APP. I think it's worth the tradeoff for the pet (who you can shield) and Power Boost. Eating one Purple inspiration would soft cap this build to all positions and damage types. Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7 https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer Click this DataLink to open the build! Xegony: Level 50 Magic Defender Primary Power Set: Cold Domination Secondary Power Set: Dark Blast Power Pool: Speed Power Pool: Leadership Power Pool: Fighting Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery Hero Profile: Level 1: Ice Shield -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def(3), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(3) Level 1: Dark Blast -- SprVglAss-Dmg/Rchg(A), SprVglAss-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(31) Level 2: Gloom -- SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg(A), SprDfnBst-Dmg/Rchg(5), SprDfnBst-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(7), SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7), SprDfnBst-Rchg/Heal%(9) Level 4: Moonbeam -- StnoftheM-Acc/Dmg(A), StnoftheM-Dmg/EndRdx(11), StnoftheM-Acc/ActRdx/Rng(11), StnoftheM-Dmg/ActRdx/Rchg(13), StnoftheM-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), StnoftheM-Dam%(15) Level 6: Glacial Shield -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def(15), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(17) Level 8: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A) Level 10: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def(19), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(19), Ksm-ToHit+(21) Level 12: Arctic Fog -- RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctArm-ResDam(23), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(23), RedFrt-Def(25), ResDam-I(25), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(27) Level 14: Kick -- Acc-I(A) Level 16: Tenebrous Tentacles -- Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(27), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(29), Rgn-Knock%(31), TraoftheH-Dam%(31) Level 18: Benumb -- Acc-I(A) Level 20: Night Fall -- PstBls-Acc/Dmg(A), PstBls-Dmg/EndRdx(33), PstBls-Dmg/Rng(33), PstBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), PstBls-Dam%(34), CldSns-%Dam(34) Level 22: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(34), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(36), UnbGrd-Max HP%(36), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(37) Level 24: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def(37), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(39) Level 26: Sleet -- RechRdx-I(A), AchHee-ResDeb%(37) Level 28: Torrent -- SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg(A), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43), SprVglAss-Rchg/+Absorb(43), SuddAcc--KB/+KD(45), FrcFdb-Rechg%(45) Level 30: Tactics -- AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx(A), AdjTrg-ToHit(45) Level 32: Heat Loss -- PrfShf-EndMod/Rchg(A), PrfShf-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(36), PrfShf-Acc/Rchg(39) Level 35: Life Drain -- Apc-Dmg(A), Apc-Dmg/Rchg(40), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), Apc-Acc/Rchg(40), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Apc-Dam%(42) Level 38: Blackstar -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(39), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(42), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(50) Level 41: Soul Drain -- RechRdx-I(A) Level 44: Dark Embrace -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), GldArm-ResDam(46), GldArm-End/Res(46) Level 47: Summon Mistress -- ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg(A), ExpRnf-Dmg/EndRdx(48), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), ExpRnf-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(48), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(50), SlbAll-Build%(50) Level 49: Power Boost -- RechRdx-I(A) Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A) Level 1: Quick Form Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A) Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A) Level 1: Vigilance Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A) Level 4: Ninja Run Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A) Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(21) Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A) Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(9) Level 50: Agility Core Paragon ------------ ------------ Set Bonus Totals: 12% DamageBuff(Smashing) 12% DamageBuff(Lethal) 12% DamageBuff(Fire) 12% DamageBuff(Cold) 12% DamageBuff(Energy) 12% DamageBuff(Negative) 12% DamageBuff(Toxic) 12% DamageBuff(Psionic) 10.06% Defense(Smashing) 10.06% Defense(Lethal) 11% Defense(Fire) 11% Defense(Cold) 9.75% Defense(Energy) 9.75% Defense(Negative) 11% Defense(Psionic) 14.13% Defense(Melee) 13.5% Defense(Ranged) 8.5% Defense(AoE) 7.2% Max End 8% Enhancement(Heal) 10% Enhancement(Range) 2.5% Enhancement(Max EnduranceDiscount) -0.85 Enhancement(Knockback) 24% Enhancement(Accuracy) 107.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime) 7.5% SpeedFlying 202.2 HP (19.88%) HitPoints 7.5% JumpHeight 7.5% SpeedJumping Knockback (Mag -3) Knockup (Mag -3) MezResist(Confused) 42.5% MezResist(Held) 42.5% MezResist(Immobilized) 42.5% MezResist(Sleep) 42.5% MezResist(Stunned) 42.5% MezResist(Terrorized) 42.5% MezResist(Teleport) 100% (20% chance) 13% (0.22 End/sec) Recovery 68% (2.88 HP/sec) Regeneration 15% ResEffect(SpeedFlying) 15% ResEffect(RechargeTime) 15% ResEffect(SpeedRunning) 3% Resistance(Smashing) 3% Resistance(Lethal) 14.25% Resistance(Fire) 14.25% Resistance(Cold) 3.75% Resistance(Energy) 3.75% Resistance(Negative) 4.5% Resistance(Toxic) 4.5% Resistance(Psionic) 7.5% SpeedRunning | Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1484;708;1416;HEX;| |78DA6594594F135114C7EF4CA7400B94B2947D2D3B741B167D3481AA0F5045488C6| |F4D438732B1769AD246F0CD073F81FAA4E212356EF141107CF513B87E01A30FBE28| |AE899A98F1CCFC8FA549276D7E73FFF79C73FFF7CC9D89AD476B1E1F3D7F48489ED| |974626D2D1ED556B44C52CB39638994BE2CE8AA38A5A58CCC4625DD76FD9F8DCF14| 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I just had a look at the build. I think it's looking really good overall. Good job. One thing I wasn't sure of is which Alpha slot you're going after. That will affect the build a lot. As for the Dark APP, it's not a bad choice. Like the Thermal build we talked about a few days ago, though, I'd be highly motivated to see if I could make on the Villain APPs to increase your strength. In this case, I'd be looking at the Soul Mastery APP. It has this structure: So you'd actually end up with the same armor power without having to take Oppressive Gloom, a power you probably wouldn't get much use out of. You'd still get Soul Drain out of it, but pick up the Mistress pet and Power Boost. In this case, Power Boost won't make your shields better. That's a limitation of Cold Domination's shields (it has to do with enhanceable resistance in the shields). What it will do is make your -ToHit skyhigh. It's glorious in your nuke power. Glorious: That's with NO -ToHit slotted in the power. -124% ToHit means even +4 enemies have -59.52 chance to hit. That is, even up to the incarnate soft cap. This -ToHit lasts 20 seconds and stacks with your other sources of -ToHit. Overall I think this will be a very satisfying, strong support character.

Here's all the background I can find out about that extended knockdown power. I don't know if it originated with the original devs or the team that took over CoH afterward. The data appears in Pine's Hero Developer in a power that was named "Bolas." I don't know how far they got with it or whether the effect actually works in game.

In the metadata for the planned Utility Belt pool power set, there is a hint that they planned to add extended duration to some knockdowns so that when a creature fell over, it wouldn't stand back up for a few seconds. I wonder if you could exploit that in a Sleep set so that when the creature falls into Deep Sleep it falls over and stays there. That would prevent it from acting if the Sleep got interupted. Even if we don't get this, a sister power to Arctic Air that causes Sleep + Stun would be very cool.

I normally plan on Everlasting. Luckily its easy to transfer between servers. I have a 50 Ice/Psi Dom, a 45 Ice/Time, and a 50 Ice/Nature. Oh and a 30(?) Ice/fire Dom and, somewhere, an Ice/Kinetics Controller. I could bring any of those or roll a new one if we want to start fresh. Anyone else interested in joining?

I'm not super worried that making these powers better will make the class vastly more powerful because 2 Control sets get good powers in the place of the AoE Hold, and that hasn't happened. The Dark Control hold was almost in certain response to overall community responses to the AoE Hold powers. Dark Control's Hold has two parts: An initial portion that immediately Holds mobs. This part responds to Domination. A "lingering" part with a debuff that lasts 45 seconds after the initial cast. I think a lingering effect in some of these powers would be nice. I'm less crazy about doing that for Fire and Plant than the others, but Gravity, Ice, Mind I can see it. We may be allowed to decide that some sets get the buff and others do not piecemeal. That's how they are currently set up anyway, with Earth and Dark getting a lingering effect.

Fair points. Super Reflexes is a set I assume in this imaginary system would have a high Multi Opponent modifier. That is the reason Multi Opponent is a stat. Some sets would be better at it than others and Super Reflexes, both conceptually and because it would need to do well with multiple opponents, would be one such set. As far as this system existing in the current game, it doesn't in the form I'm explaining. You have some cascading systems like Defense Debuff that can simulate the effect to an extent and I think were well used. Some games uses an explicit flanking system. City of Heroes does not. Instead we have an aggro cap where we forcefully cut off the number of attackers at 16. This is because the nature of the combat system makes it possible to survive inbound damage from any number of opponents, since adding each additional opponent does not penalize you beyond having to roll against a new opponent. As a math problem, the conundrum facing any developer hoping to make challenging content is that if a player currently has 40 defense and they increase that to 45, they cut the damage they take in half to all attackers. The only (EDIT: I'll use softer language, Let's just say "a possible") way to deal with that is to give some of the attackers an accuracy roll that differs from the other attackers. There are other potential ways to deal with it, but the next consideration is how do you do that fairly without destroying players who haven't armored heavily? That's part of the challenge with using Defense Debuff or other systems. Right now we tend to end up with characters who are either extremely survivable or dead in seconds. The math makes it hard to find an in between.

Yes, that is part of the design. In this sort of system, there is a Stat that explicitly makes some characters better at dealing with multiple opponents. I think there is an optional rules of this sort for Dungeons and Dragons. I haven't played the most recent versions. The rule is that an attacker gets a bonus based on whether they are attacking from the flank or behind. D&D uses the same 95% chance to hit system as City of Heroes (a roll of 1 on a 1d20 = auto miss, 20= auto hit). In that optional system, a player faced with 6 enemies would face one enemy at full defense, some at reduced defense, others at extreme disadvantage. The reason for rules like this goes back to the way soft capping works: In a non-penalizes system, if you can be hit on a roll of 19 or 20, and you increase your defense by 1, you've reduced all in coming damage by 50% In a penalized system, if you can be hit on a roll of 19 or 20, and you increase your defense by 1, you've reduced in coming damage for the first enemy by 50%, but not as much for all other enemies The rule is common on a lot of tactical RPGs to avoid issues like City of Heroes has with binary defense, where the developer gives the players a spell that increases defense a nudge but it ends up cutting all in coming damage in half.

Busted. 😛 In full disclosure, I was a developer on a game that had this mechanic and I think the system would work well for City of Heroes. I would not actually implement it in the main game for reasons described in the original post. It would be a way to make end-game content more exciting without destroying characters who haven't been armored.

This is a good idea. A very good idea. I feel like had the game continued development this is the direction they'd eventually have gone in to make zone spawns more relevant. I'm unsure how difficult it would be to implement or balance.

I feel like every player reading this forum somehow tracked this game down from obscurity and has their own individual passion for it. What we all share in common is a strong connection to it, and with it that sometimes comes strong opinions like you and I have. I think Force Field is a cool concept with interesting powers that are not reaching their potential. In that sense I feel the same way about Force Field that I do about Sonic Resonance and Trick Arrow. I hope we can agree that an opinion that these sets underperform does not lock me or any one else out conversations on how to improve them. I have played this set plenty, and found it to deserve developer attention. I can appreciate that some players enjoy the weird interesting aspects of Force Field, and that even for some players a chance to play a Force Field character again after a 7 year break would be very exciting. That passion is admirable. I can see how suggestions being made by a person they don't view as sufficiently invested could be threatening. Hopefully it will be reassuring to hear that in my view, and hopefully the view of the developers, massive changes to the set that take away what players find interesting about it would be a bad thing. The original suggestions you made were good. Some of the suggestions other people made in this thread are good. Some of the suggestions I made (in my opinion) are good. Conversation is good,