Galaxy Brain

There's a reason that pic exists! lol

I respect you a lot @Sir Myshkin, but wouldn't a Blaster Sustain (not saying which one is which) make for an even BETTER team armor set given it has even more room to be buffed while having similar healing rates + better AoE damage? While yes, Regen does gain a lot more from outside buffs.... the other armor sets do not need those buffs to succeed and can get them just the same as the Regen character. Actually, a better comparison would be looking at Regen vs Willpower and Bio (and arguably Rad Armor too) as they are all the "healing" sets if one were to thematically roll a regenerator.

Yall forget that battle axe is a set too ;_; Anywho, the convo really does rely on both the enemy and player powers, but I believe that spreadsheet is out of date. I need to redo my current one...

@Troo, as I mentioned the seconds thing is more of a score with the assumption that the damage would actually come in per second in this infinite trial. Of course in a real test the times would be longer, but I'd reckon that against anything but psy damage invuln will pull ahead both passively and actively.

Itd be pretty much the same thing but less HP in this instance. Its not "true" as the incoming DPS is treated like literal DPS. Itd take much longer in reality as there are gaps between the hits, you'd be fighting back, etc, but as a "score" imo it gets the point across.

This is a great way to put it, and while yes Regen has a niche when it comes to being equally good to "Damage" regardless of how it is applied, the reality is that such encounters are incredibly rare to the point of being almost a gimmick. Lets actually eyeball Brute Regen vs Invuln against what I'd call an "MM" encounter with 3 minions, 2 lt's, and 1 boss. Minions got 2 attacks with a 50% hit chance at base, which eyeballing a few enemy groups we will equate to ~24.38dps. x3 = 73.14dps LTs got 4 attacks with a 57.5% hit chance at base, which eyeballing a few enemy groups we will equate to ~62.43dps. x2 = 124.89dps Bosses got 6 attacks with a 65% hit chance at base, which eyeballing a few enemy groups we will equate to ~ 161.28dps This is of course all averaged, assuming we are gonna put both brutes in a gauntlet that just has them fight these guys forever and ever and average the results. Lets see how both would behave over time with basic slotting (max values to HP/Res/Def/Rech) Regen: Over time, regen will have: 14.86 res vs all (ignoring MoG since it's super hard to calculate with it's extreme stats on uptime/values) 119.38 HPS (all things averaged with 3-slotting stats / uptimes / spamming self heals) 2100 HP (Dull Pain over time, also integrated to the HPS) With no inherent defenses, the Regen character will take the full brunt of the combined 359.28 DPS, reduced to 305.89 after resistances. Subtract the HPS from that, and you're left with 186.51 DPS to the character. 2100 / 186.51 = ~12 seconds in this scenario. Invuln: Over time, invuln will have: 53.49% SL Res, 23.77% other res, 0 Psy res 19.02% def to all but Psy (in this 6-enemy example) 22.34 HPS 2100 HP (It has Dull Pain too!) 50% Def debuff res 25% End Res 20% Slow res The inherent defenses will behave a bit differently thanks to the acc modifiers per rank, so lets adjust the incoming DPS per rank real quick: Minions = 30.98% base hit chance = 45.3 dps LT = 35.63% base hit chance = 77.36 dps Boss = 40.27% base hit chance = 99.93 dps Total DPS = 222.59 Now, with resistances we are either looking at 53.49% if they are SL damage or 23.77% for other damage types. Add in the HPS, and this reduces the final DPS down to either 81.19 SL or 147.34 other. 2100 / 81.19 = ~26 seconds in this scenario. (2.17x regen) 2100 / 147.34 = ~14 seconds in this scenario. (1.17x regen) 2100 / 114.26 (avg) = ~18 seconds in this scenario. (1.5x regen) As you add more Res/Def, Invuln gets sturdier even when you compare the meager 22.34 HPS to Regen's 119.38 HPS over infinite time. Of course, this is not "actual" but may as well be given that Instant Healing is on such a low uptime of only about 27%.

I would much rather lethal be a much more all or nothing damage type. The name is *LETHAL*, blades, bullets, everything meant to tear through flesh, it makes sense that itd be the most defended against just like in days of old (well also now with bullet proof material, etc). Id rather it be the case where if an enemy is not armored, then lethal should hit MUCH HARDER than not.

Both of these can be true! As mentioned, certain things are not "challenging" as much as they are "frustrating". When a PP pops MoG, you and it often just kind of sit there for 45 seconds till you mop the floor with them right after having to look at your watch for a bit. For most characters, it's not an "Oh crap!" moment where the tables turn and you gotta back off or switch tactics, it just puts you in time out until you can attack them again. A great version of this enemy trope can be found in Borderlands games. They have a "Goliath" enemy type that has a helmet where their critical hit spot (well their head lol) is, and they have a ton of HP and hit hard. You can fight them slowly, which may take a bit since they're tanky, or you can try and defeat them quickly by hitting their critical spot... but there is a catch. IF you crit them and DO NOT DEFEAT THEM in the next few seconds, they will go BERSERK and regain all HP, pop essentially CoH rage + Hasten, and hunt you down with incredible speed and power, even attacking other enemies and leveling up to bigger and badder versions (with a full heal) each time they do so. On occasion, normally damaging them also has a chance for their helmets to pop off and go berserk too. The difference between Paragon Protectors and Goliaths is that there is far more interaction and player agency with one over the other. The encounters with both allow a player to actively prevent the bad timeline from happening by shutting down the threat fast either through raw firepower or control, though that in itself is a decent challenge to do so given they are boss-tier enemies. This is good. What is not good is that while one turns into a markedly much more intense encounter where the tables turn from hunter to hunted, with even more risk/reward if you allow it to grow even *stronger*, the other just goes "nah nah you can't get me!" for like a minute and most characters can just ignore the thing relatively safely, leading to the reaction going from "Oh Crap!!!" to "Ugh, dang it now I gotta wait". For a different example, think of basically ANY platforming game where you have that one room with the moving platforms. Yeah, you all know *that* room. The one where there is a big climb up to some area where there is then a slow moving platform in mid-air you have to jump on, and then stay on it as it takes you to a whole other part of the level you cannot get to otherwise. Getting up to the platform, jumping onto the platform, and generally staying on it is not that difficult, and if you do get pushed off, you are not killed or even take too much damage... but you gotta go back to the (ladder), climb allllll the way back up, and then WAIT for the damn thing to come back. It's not hard, it's just a slog. Compare that room to the one where there is like a series of platforms that disappear when you land on them, making you have to jump with very quick timing and think one leap ahead with each action, and messing up has you have to do it over again. On the surface, the punishment seems similar but this one is far more engaging as you actively have a role in what happens as a player where a bad result is moreso your own actions, while the other is the game punishing you by putting you into time out arbitrarily.

This is basically the same as lowering S/L res by that amount across all enemy types

To be honest, the other half of it being hard to master is that it is not *rewarding* to do so. It'd be one thing if Regen were super reactive and hard to pin down but doing so makes you immortal, but other armor sets are tougher with 1/4th the IQ required.

I'll have to ditto this. It's one part the design of the ranged sets in general, and another part the changes to specifically Sentinel versions of sets and how they synergize that makes or breaks them. IMO, you can make a very potent and fun sent with the right combo... but likewise the wrong combo feels all the worse on a sentinel too.

Based on my testing on tanks, Ice Armor is actually pulling ahead of most the sets at least on a base level?

You shouldda pinged me! My blaster could wipe the sky raiders for ya 😉

I'd rather it just be an ultra-enhancement. There are many powers you could slot for one of two things (Either Mez or Damage, etc) and this could allow you to effeciently have both with set bonuses up to 5

Lethal definitely is resisted a lot as it is both commonly resisted AND when it is resisted it is often significantly so. Few enemies are also specifically lethal weak. On the flipside, while Smashing is often resisted, it is also usually less resisted than lethal is value wise (while many enemies have SL res in equal amounts tied together, many have specifically high lethal res of like 50% while some may resist smashing by like 20/25%). Many enemies also have specific weaknesses to Smashing such as Robots (which ironically laugh at lethal). TBH, I would rather there be many more enemies where them being "unarmored" makes them take more damage from lethal attacks. After all, why call it "Lethal" at all if it doesnt tear people up?

The way I see it tho, in HC as it is right now... what does it add having them exclusive? Every store (generic) one you go to will only sell Enh you can use. The AH / IO system is global as well, meaning only specialty stores and random drops will lock you out which can both be ignored...

DR wouldn't affect the singular enhancement, but itd effect other enhancements after that one (assuming the 1 enh = ED cap). So you could say slot Short Circuit with either a 100% Damage or End Mod (or both if you're feeling frisky) then the rest slotted as either an end mod or damage power. The name is probably a misnomer, but I guess these would be "Ultra Enhancements"!

it could go either way I suppose! My idea was that each one would be 100% unique, as in you can only slot 1 Damage purple across the build, 1 End Mod across the build, etc.

So the thread about TO's not dropping / dropped Enhancements often not being usable got me thinking. In ye Olde days I'm sure this was a means to get people to trade or at least have stuff to sell, but that ship has LONG sailed with IO's, especially generics, by and large replacing them at a certain point to begin with. Add on how we start getting DO's and SO's very early on now and I find it kind of funny that so much of what drops can't even be used... So, what if we altered it so that all origins can be used by your character (what is stopping Iron Man from using a naturally learned technique as stated by natural SO's despite his tech, or Wonder Woman from using a gadget despite her being magic?), but then you got a small Bonus for matching your origin? Lets take a look: Schedule A: 16.7% (DO) / 33.3% (SO) Schedule B: 10% (DO) / 20% (SO) These are the current values of a fresh enhancement for 99% of what you'd see (iirc there is a schedule C for knockback but the same thing will apply for where I'm going with this). But lets look at the competition: Lvl 50 IO: 42.4% (A) / 25.5% (B) A generic IO can grow to be ~ 27.5% stronger than an equivalent SO it seems! At lvl 25, the base lvl where you'd get store-bought SO's, IO's also basically match them in power with 32% enhancement to an SO's 33.3%, only getting stronger from there. What if there was a 30% bonus (15% for DO's) for matching your origin? SO's can be outleveled and can randomly not be a matched set, so making them at least competitive for longer at a *price* could be a nice change of pace: Schedule A: 16.7% (DO) / 33.3% (SO) > 19.2 / 43.3 Schedule B: 10% (DO) / 20% (SO) > 11.5 / 26 This is just throwing a dart at the wall in terms of making the basic enhancement's ties to origin a bit better in today's environment, but what do you think about the topic?

Sorta, they'd still be unique so you could only have 1 attack that has a Purple Damage

If anything though.... I do feel like drops being origin-locked is rather dated. Maybe that could be looked into? For example, maybe instead of only being able to slot your origin, instead what if they were simply more powerful if attuned to your origin? DO's would get 1/2 the bonus (whatever it may be) as it'd be 50% your origin, while SO's get the full bonus. A Magic Character could still slot a Tech SO but it would not be as potent as a Magic SO.

Against a single target that didn't move sure 😛

@Tigraine, if you have the funds to IO up your character as you said, then hopping to a store and buying up DOs or even SOs (generic stores always have your origin) shouldn't be an issue no?

Real World Test 4: Arachnos At this point, we have 5 different results per set at +4/x8, lets see how they stack up... If we look at it with a 2:30 immortality cutoff: Ends up a little closer together

What is your gameplan running into mobs? A factor that is not considered here is the damage type as the punching bags have no inherent resistances, certain enemies resist lethal quite a bit!