Galaxy Brain

I really like this idea in particular of summoning a "dummy". Something like this: A rock that is summoned that is about the size of ~2 normal characters that has a low-mag taunt aura could be something super fun.

Clearly, we must nerf regen in order to fix IO's

While true, HC has buffed far, far more broadly than nerfed.

Same thing happens with the Ember Demon, its a bug due to the nature of Damage and Resists.

On an entirely objective, strict sense: various buffs to underperformers have made the game easier. This is warranted, but in the strictest of definitions this has made the game easier. Access to Incarnates has also been made easier, making them more common than before. Travel options have also made things easier in terms of what content to tackle and where.

Pretty much on both counts lol. But, if you manage to keep them alive they will wipe out basically anything in front of them.

Well, lets take a look. Rage + 90% fury + 95% Damage enhancement on Footstomp = ~270 damage to 10 targets. Nova with 0 buffs or enhancements = 250 damage to 16 targets Nova with 95% damage enhancement + Aim = 644 damage to 16 targets Above + Build Up + ~15% avg defiance buff = ~932 damage to 16 targets 95% Dam Enh, no defiance, either BU or Aim used before = 691 damage to 16 targets on average, or about 2.6 footstomps per target, not factoring in footstomp hitting less (which would be like 4.2 footstomps to the group) Lightning Rod is a better example with it at 90% fury + BU + Enh = 607 damage, but again 10 targets

Its a far different thing when you take into account there is a reason we put up a curtain for the man to be behind. For a close to home example, lets look at City of Titans. This was a game that was announced near immediately after the closing of CoH back in the day as a spiritual successor, starting 100% from Scratch by a volunteer team. They set up a kickstarter, were very vocal and transparent about nearly everything they do.... and that got them mountains of hate as people came to realize that you cannot make an MMO from scratch in the matter of 3 months. Its more like 8 years or so, with the first announcement/footage being available when you are already like 85% done with the game, not at day 1!!! By letting the (public) know about the ins and outs, being transparent about facets that end up being shelved or axed, you play with people's expectations in an ultimately negative light, especially with folks who have good intentions but have no idea what actually goes into the process. Another example is Cyberpunk 2077. That game had alllllll the hype in the world and was shown to us in a super-alpha state a few years back. They caved into fan demand to release it ASAP.... and well look at how that turned out. Again, without going into details the nature of the beast is hard to grasp for many. There was a specific interaction change on Alpha here that went through I want to say 5 major iterations, and by that I mean 5 radically different forms that all attacked the interaction from a different angle, and each time there was a large subset of people who could not comprehend the environment was the place where these radical changes and redesigns were meant to be and spat hellfire whenever they could. In an ideal world we could all behave much better, sure. But unfortunately that is not where we are 😞

Well, it depends. When a Brute really gets going, it would actually be comparable to a Blaster blow for blow... But Brutes don't get Nova.

So, without going into detail there is a certain, vocal population that takes things far too literally / set in stone even in the planning phases. In last year's suite of changes there were a number of things on the plate that eventually got pushed off before even finishing the rounds in the Alpha Stages behind closed doors... but those who saw those changes held onto them with all they could and were downright mad that they did not make it past the blueprints for this phase. Often times showing something too early, or to the wrong audience, can alter expectations radically.

Real World Test 1: Council Same conditions as the prior test, all SO's with added CJ / Tough / Weave / Manuevers, + -KB IO's on Dark and Fire (because lets be real here... 😛), wade into a group of +4/x8 enemies and see how long I can take it. The results are relatively the same as the "balanced" damage spread, though for my sanity I shaved off a minute on the "immortal line" to 4 minutes as I'll be testing these through multiple enemy groups, and I also shaved the number of runs down to 5 each for much the same reason. What is surprising to me is that Invulnerability actually died once. It makes a bit more sense when we take a look at the damage spread of Council: On average, the x8 spawn had this spread of damage (S/L are lumped together as all armor sets defend equally against them), with the Vampires and Galaxies being able to do enough chip damage, and on one occasion slow me down *just* enough to steal a kill at the 3:42 mark before Dull Pain could be used! The large negative energy damage could also be said to be how Dark Armor managed to sneak in an immortal run. Bio Eff. was omitted this time in the interest of time, and honestly you can guess it will be between Def and Off. Speaking of, a new stat is the "Immortal Bias". Pretty much the opposite of the safety measure in my other threads, this time I give the times a bonus based on the % of runs hit the immortal line and the above chart is sorted as such. Bio Def (and obviously Granite lol) was the only set to consistently hit that line 5/5 times due to it having much better sustain than Invuln which proved it could be chipped to death if unlucky. Shield and Stone did better comparatively as well which is interesting, but everyone else is relatively the same. I'll be able to add more groups as time goes on, but my list so far: Carnies Malta Arachnos Longbow Cimerorans PDF (non Devouring Earth) CoT Banished Pantheon (Incarnate) Arachnoids (need that Toxic X-Factor)

Agreed on pretty much all of this, but it doesn't address the issue with Marking a target nor really having it stand out from other damage dealers aside from being ranged. I would like there to be an easier way to highlight an enemy at the least that isn't tied to a meter. Like I said in the OP, it seems far too finnicky for what it does in most combat situations as you often do not have an ideal target to mark, making it feel "wasted" a lot of the time. As for the identity, this would certainly give them a super-mode of sorts every so often but would that really be enough...? They sort of lean towards support through offense already with their inherent -Res, so I feel leaning into that a bit would be nice for sure.

In theory it is given that Sniper powers can scale based on ToHit, so *theoretically* you could assign the same scaling to something else....

Id dig this as well, the SBB is so fun specifically since it has a small team feel + it splits you up on purpose for something unique. So this circles back to the main topic... of the game is supposed to be "SO level", is the fact that players run around way beyond that something to address?

I still think it should start scaling at 100% with the same cap, would be nice lol.

I didn't realize how long it has been that I let this thread slumber! I've actually been working on practical tests with a number of real enemy groups, but it's been slow going with RL in the way. 1) I feel like it would be very similar overall, just with different numbers due to the Scrapper being comparatively squishier. The defense sets would do relatively better as well due to the way defense works vs the smaller base Res and HP values. 2) Any of the sets with good resistances will get much much better as you add in +Def, and often +Rech in the mix as they often come with key click powers. Dark in particular as you manage end better + dont need to spam DR as much (also the +End proc in there) as well as Shield like you guys mentioned since it has amazing base mitigation that can be layered + synergies where it's lack of sustain can be patched up.

@oldskool, that would be neat... but what avenues would they have to interact with it outside some odds and ends buffs? It'd be cool for it to be tied to a crit chance specifically, or even a chance to Mark a target, unless the intent here is their natural +ToHit aura is meant to stack with other Sentinels too? Thinking on it more, that could be neat in a team environment with other Sents / ToHit buffs flying around if it related to some sort of Crit Chance (even if we just took the bonus damage from Opportunity, tied that to ToHit, and then cranked up the damage MUCH higher given it is a % chance?) and then the Mark changes I suggested... hmmmm

For number two, that would be a really cool thing for Revive Powers SPECIFICALLY to do. If you use a wakie, or go to hosp, GG's you gotta retoggle all your stuff. If a Regen/WP/Fiery Aura/ DARK ARMOR ESPECIALLY uses their self revive, a benefit should be it turns on any other toggles in the set you have! Same thing with Buff Set revives, give those powers some extra bite compared to just using a wakie or hosping!

While the popular idea may not hold water on it's own merits, the fact that a lot of players recognize something is "off" enough to rally en masse for a solution is something to keep note of. @Hyperstrike, to @TemporalVileTerror's point there is a nuance here when it comes to examples vs just popular ideas. If somebody just said "hey X thing sucks, and all my friends think so too!" it's one thing. If tons of unaffiliated people at different times come up with "hey X sucks", then there is something likely up with X. If lots of people come up with separate examples of why X sucks with actual thought and effort, then well they may be onto something.

I think it can be worthwhile depending on the impact it gives to multiple areas of the game. Control sets feel kinda "off" for many, as do certain buff sets due to how self-sufficient players can become. Much like how Immobilizes would not matter as much if Runners weren't a thing (as a random example), a similar solution could be used where more things can be dealt with more effectively by crowd control which by proxy makes a whole slew of powers, power sets, and AT's more valuable and "viable" than before. You could buff control sets all you want, but in the end they still gotta "compete" with raw firepower and base survival, so instead you give them more to chew on where they can be as viable as damage. This is a big hypothetical mind you, but I always feel that is an example of where changes to the *game* may be necessary. For a really, really weird analogy let's look at Paper Mario. (No, really, its a very simple game but has a nice way in how it tackles different forms of combat) In that game, you take turns attacking enemies and for the most part, it doesn't really matter what you use. However, there are certain enemies that are MUCH easier to defeat if you Jump on them, or use the Hammer on them specifically. There are ways around this, like if an enemy has a spike on it's head you can use equipment to jump on it where you normally cannot, or likewise use an ability to throw your hammer at an enemy in the air where you normally cannot hammer them, but those require you to go out of your way in order to make that option "work" (but it's still allowed!). The base design throws challenges at the player where certain options have different values, but throughout the game they are roughly equal as there is ample opportunities for both to shine as well as times where one outshines the other, but most of the time either is just as viable. Where CoH is trending towards is like if you could defeat all enemies with the Jump safely, why bother with the Hammer (control)? Giving us stuff where the Hammer is just as good if not sometimes a bit more effective instead of being less so could be nice and by proxy "buff" a ton of powers by giving them something extra to do. My B! I saw him mention a dominator when looking back and thought it was the same story 😅

It's not, but there is a line where you then get cases like @oedipus_texmentioned: As well as an anecdote about even his vet lvl 100 dominator feeling superfluous, a part of the issue is that the game *is* easy, and then you give us the ability to stomp it down even further to where the base content (playing together as a team) can actually be less fun. That is an issue I think that is worth addressing as it continues to crop up over and over and over by the players.

Agreed, all these exist as an ecosystem though! The point about the game's progression is super poignant and something I had thought of a lot. Specifically, you get this ramp-up of gear as you level up until lvl 30. It starts with TO's at the very start, and those are quickly replaced at level 12 with DO's, your first milestone and a notable power jump. Similarly, you bump up at 22 with SO's and by level 30-ish it is safe to assume you'd be fully on SO's with drops / inf gain allowing it.... and then that's sorta it. For what would then be the majority of your character's life (time-wise it takes way longer to get from 30-50 than 1-30) your only "normal" progression is just getting more slots to place more SO's / replacing old SO's with level-appropriate ones. To me, it seems like it would be natural to have the next step at around lvl 32 to be moving up to more complex enhancements (IO sets), except for this issue: Technically, you do sort of sit in front of a pond trying to get materials to make a random piece of something because thats how the drops and recipes work. If you were to play totally "natural" and avoid the market, the rando set recipes that fall into your lap then need rando salvage pieces in order to craft them, and you may not even be able to use the thing. If past 30/32 IOs could randomly drop into your tray that would be a whole lot simpler. At least, if certain ones could drop (uniques, procs, purples, etc could still be locked behind crafting) you could much more easily slot as you go and make the game more dynamic for even casual players which may be discouraged from diving into a frankly huge part of the game that is locked behind obtuse UI / mechanics. This is even more muddied as of today with SO's basically being there ASAP for new characters. As a side note, the early lvl IO sets are basically useless as SO's / Generic IO's often surpass them, and often pale in comparison to other IO sets you'd have access to at lvl 25-30 anyways and could stand to be bumped up. As for difficulty, this has been said a lot but the game doesn't *really* get harder as you level either with the mobs you encounter outside a few, its more that they get much more frustrating. Carnies and Nemesis are great examples here where they have mechanics that you cannot really interact with and cause you to just sort of wait it out between their Phasing, Personal Force Fields, and stacking vengeance if you happen to kill the wrong guy. The former is just annoying as there is 0 interaction aside from timing when to attack, which makes fights with Carnies feel almost like padding more than actually a difficult fight. The latter is similarly frustrating with the fake nems just going into time out if you do not take care of them fast enough (other bosses do this too and it's not exactly fun... you just sort of get put on time-out as well), or worse yet you are punished for trying to do the main objective of every mission: defeat enemies (Carnies also punish you for defeating them... but it's not as bad). This is gonna be a hot take, but Malta is way better designed in this regard. There are several stand-out enemies in the faction (Titans, Sappers, Gunslingers) which become priority targets above the rest which affects player choice where they can impact you directly if you do not single them out / deal with them effectively. They are difficult if you just run in at them blindly, as are other enemy types like Sky Raiders (Engineers), Cimerorans (surgeons), devouring earth (their summonable buffs) or Rikti (various, but mainly portal dudes) to a point where there are unique enemies that can make the fight much harder if you do not prioritize them and make smart choices and strategies. Hell, even Freakshow do the "punish you for defeating them" thing right as specifically Super-Stunners can be singled out and are a boss encounter that is not likely to go down in an alpha strike, and even their revive can be baited and avoided by players if you let them use their self heal! A lot of this gets lost as you get to higher end enemies where it just becomes an exercise in patience where they just have a bunch of time-out modes, and in a more meta sense the more interesting enemies are susceptible to just being nuked and don't pose any extra threats. There are a few enemy types too where they are hard due to raw power (Vanguard, Rularuu, high-end Praetorians) but they are locked away to specific arcs and are not often highlighted in things like the weekly strike target / hard to get to in general. Dark Astoria enemies are.... well lets say it's weird in that they fit the bill of above but while in DA you are an incarnate and get a free +1 level shift at least which makes the "casual" encounters there kind of weird. The enemies in the wards are also somewhat out of the way to get to but they provide a nice challenge too! But this sort of speaks to the issue of choice and access in that we get presented with "Hey, you can either travel to the night ward and take on badass stuff! Or, you can just run radios vs the lowest enemy type faster for basically the same net gain and lower risk / travel time". Now, wouldn't it be cool if there were some way for drops to come off this more difficult content right into your tray, encouraging you to play outside of your bubble and take on the more interesting stuff if you so choose....? 😉 Some of this all does relate to enemy design. There should definitely be a pass on some of these groups where they can mitigate some of the things players do to mess with their intended strategy. If a minion is key to the group's identity where they can buff/summon stuff... well it is sort of not gonna happen most of the time as an AoE will just delete them and the faction then loses part of what makes it special. If they are allowed to do their unique stuff without just being obliterated (inherent AoE defense on *certain* enemies, etc) they would naturally become more cerebral a challenge and not just a "I have better stats so I win now" which is what we see with IO's on individuals, which get compounded by team buffs/etc to where the max difficulty is now the norm. Likewise, some enemies like Carnies should 100% be nerfed/altered as fighting them is avoided due to them not being seen as FUN by most players. Imagine if Illusionists could cast "Phase" on others, but locking them down or defeating them (or maybe hitting them if its interruptible) allows you to prevent that, instead of it just being on auto and forcing you to wait randomly. Some of this then goes to enhancements, where if (some) set IO's were normal drops that would cut away a ton of access issues and make it so frankenslotting and some IO bonuses could be expected. In turn, just as earlier level enemies scale in threat to you so should later level ones as you move on from the basic SO's. Should it expect fully-kitted out players? NO IT SHOULD NOT. Should it expect like, "above SO level by a notch or two"? Sounds good to me as you get into the 40's. As the threats ramp up to match your more powerful hero, so should the expected drops (gear) from them in order to keep pace. This feeds back into the above where minor tweaks could go a long way to make fights a bit more engaging and thus open up more doors for existing playstyles that get drowned out in the current meta. For example, there could be tweaks where some enemies are weak to crowd control, but otherwise are beasts in their own right... like War Wolves. Lets say they have instant healing as an option they can use as well as their inherent 25% res to all, and they also get a new savage melee attack thrown in. This is a tough foe for sure, where IO bonuses would help to right them in terms of raw strength... but also if you manage to stun / sleep / hold them, they become much easier to tackle since their clicks + possibly their inherent armor gets shut off. Some of this also relates to access / rewards. Making big chunks of the game come more naturally to you instead of having to fish for parts + craft them is one thing, but it could also be tied to some of the more avoided content. Imagine if Redside missions allowed you to actually rob a place and get IO's as loot? Or if goldside enemies just had a higher drop rate? Those parts of the game are avoided for many reasons, a main one being that Blueside is more.... I guess you could say "ergonomic" and accommodating, but giving more incentive to try your luck in those spots could be healthy and not require huge redesigns. This is already sortof in the game with the higher end missions allowing you to get Incarnate rewards, this could be a smaller / expanded (depending on your perspective) version of just that. This went on longer than I thought, but the gist of my view is this: The IO system is a HUGE part of the game, but it is locked behind obtuse barriers for no real reason (outside a few specialties). At the same time, many enemies are designed in such a way or in certain locations to where there is little reason to go after one vs another, and these clash in a weird way when you have people who deck out characters in the BIG "OPTIONAL" part of the game stomp on things that people default to since even when they're decked out there is little reason to go after the challenging stuff that's already there. Removing some barriers and at the same time adding to the "less popular" areas in the same swoop could be a nice change for the game that doesn't require a radical redesign of everything, but it all boils down to expectations.

It is, due to it being a barrier to access gane, need to overcome. Like all things in the game, it doesn't exist in a vacuum due to you getting random drops all the time (like my lvl 16 mm example) and all the info available nowadays. It leans into the question of the player base, if most people use it and its relatively easy to do it outside the drop system and crappy UI... then changing those bits would be worthwhile. As another said, I don't think it's too advanced to see an IO and get a gist of what it does. "Chance of Energy Damage" in a "PBAoE Attack" are straightforward to a point where if you just hover over the power you're looking at / clicking the enhancement once made it will show you what to do. It just gets complex when you start looking at stacked bonuses across multiple powers. I think its important to recognize that while you shouldn't balance for the tippity top, the same should be said of the very bottom. There is a certain set of expectations that game has of a player past a certain point in terms of learning the ropes. I would like to assume the base level of balance should be like... level 30ish where you should have played long enough to learn the basics in and out.

This is exactly part of the balance though, combined with the unknown of how many HC players dive into it. Sure, not every character is gonna be decked out, but enough certainly are anecdotally to where you'd think players are versed. (Not to mention how easy it is to get to 50)

So, did some fiddling with Broadsword as it's a pretty middle of the road set to test offense with both Damage Procs and Achilles' Heel. With Broadsword on a generic SO build as a baseline, I took Slice (the cone), Whirling Sword (the PBAoE), and Disembowel (strongest ST attack) and added procs and frankenslotted a bit to get a measure for performance from the SO level + X. Each attack had the same damage enhancement value within 0.5% slotting, as well as roughly the same Acc/End/Rech as a single SO + the Achille's proc, 1-2 damage procs, or a combo of 1 dam / 1 Achilles. No set bonuses or other globals were used. Each test was run once with 65 enemies per run to mow through at +0/x3 difficulty, with the above being the results (more extensive results to come, this was more just to get bearings and see if anything major popped up right away). The biggest thing from SO's to added procs was the amount of attacks needed to complete the mission. Dropping from 180 to between 124-129 is a massive difference of over 50 clicks thanks to only 3 powers. The total damage on SO's is the greatest per this, but that is due to so many enemies having that *sliver* of HP left in the logs. If I swing for 100 each strike and enemies have 101 hp, it will track as dealing 200 damage. On the defense, dropping enemies much faster ended up with far less damage taken than on SO's as well. DPS didn't swing *too* wildly, but its interesting to see that only adding Achilles kept it roughly the same as on SO's despite all other metrics being better. Adding procs gave much better damage per attack than just Achilles as well, which makes sense given it's raw damage, tho I may have gotten lucky on the single proc run in some respects. Damage per Enemy being lower though is a good thing, as it points to less "overkill" swings being needed, and Seconds per Enemy is likewise self explanatory. Slice = 165 dam, 71.75 damage proc = 44% boost Whirling Sword = 170.7 dam (with DoT), proc = 42% boost Disembowel = 262.9 dam, proc = 27% boost With this in mind, it's easy to see where the power of damage procs lies. Achilles' would boost the output by 20%, but comparatively the procs all do better even vs the 95% enhanced damage of these Scrapper powers. With Achilles' active, you'd boost the %'s by 20%. With more procs, the potential boost is multiplied per proc + the odds of rolling *a* proc gets multiplicatively better. Slice = 35% chance per 3.5ppm proc (58% chance of 1 of 2 procs hitting) W Sword = 40% chance per 3.5ppm proc (64% chance of 1 of 2 procs hitting) Disembowel = 54% chance per 3.5ppm proc (79% chance of 1 of 2 procs hitting) Its easy to see how the combo of Achilles and 1 proc pulled ahead in time and dam/enemy though, with fairly solid odds per swing that either your target or multiple targets in the group will have either -Res or bonus damage applied to greatly increase output even with basic enhancements / values throughout.