America's Angel

@RageusQuitus2 @reib - I think there's plans to look at Taunt. (And a bunch of other stuff - Faultline has said he's open to "meta experiments" for us to test stuff out on the beta server.). But this will happen after Issue 27 Page 1. (Which should hopefully be going live tomorrow!) If you're curious about future PVP changes, you can see some of the planned stuff here: https://trello.com/b/gDUzLMOH/pvp-stuff I've also been compiling a list of things there seems to be consensus to look at (Including taunt!) I know GM Smol, CR Banana Man, and Alou have been, too. I'm not sure of the exact timeframe for further PVP changes. At a guess...at worst it'll be Issue 27 Page 2, at best it'll be small updates between now and then. Ultimately, it comes down to the mood/interest of the dev team (they're volunteers doing this in their spare time as a passion project, remember). I imagine they're going to be pretty exhausted and want some chill time after Issue 27 Page 1 launches, though. For now, the main thing the devs are looking for in this thread is if you're able to break any of the stuff in the patch notes / if anything in the patch notes is wrong. I've tested most of the above stuff on the beta server. It all seems to be working as intended. (Glue Arrow is going to be tweaked at some point to allow the -jump to last for 30s after leaving the patch, and Absorb/Share Pain doing -50% for x seconds will likely be tweaked further after it's playtested more on live. But these two things are likely to happen post-release, and everything else in the patch notes seems to be working as intended.)

"Oh no, the enemy mob confused me!" *Switches to PVP build*

The devs are insanely open to feedback. Y'all just need to be smarter about how you give it: Repeating the same argument for 10+ pages is a bad strategy. Calling the devs out is a bad strategy. Being antagonistic is a bad strategy. Debating the patch notes instead of checking what's in the patch notes actually works is a bad strategy. Whining is a bad strategy. Actually take a moment and ask yourself...what do you want? Do you want the devs to be receptive to what you say? Or do you just want to feel better by ranting your feelings online? Be smart. Think about your end goal. This is why there's been so many PVP changes. Traditionally PVPers have been largely ignored the dev team, so when the devs offered to make some changes for us, we were happy to play nice. Sure, there's been a couple changes we weren't too impressed with. (Tactical Arrow losing its movement control being #1.) But we didn't argue or fight against them. We just shrugged and went along with it. Because we realized whining would just get us ignored, whereas accepting defeat, and moving on to the next thing, might result in more positive changes. The result? The devs listened to A LOT of our feedback. And now we have a pile of PVP changes so amazing that Castle is probably crying in his sleep and wondering why. So my feedback to the PVEers who have spent these last few months arguing in Focused Feedback threads for post after post, often to the point where GMs have had to delete your posts or intervene asking you to calm down, is this: Be smart. Think about your end goal.

I'm sorry. I didn't realise Troo was necroposting. My bad for not checking the OP post date.

@CrudeVileTerror, as per this post: These are the only areas currently looking for feedback: Focused Feedback: The Graveyard Shift (Hero Story Arc, Level 20-29) Focused Feedback: The Freakish Lab of Dr. Vahzilok (Villain Story Arc, Level 30-39) Focused Feedback: PvP Updates General Feedback: Issue 27, Page 1 If you encounter any bugs during this last phase of testing, please report them in the Beta Bug Reports forum. Once the patch is live, feel free to post feedback in the Suggestions & Feedback forum and bug reports in the Bug Reports forum.

From my cold dead hands.

Ah it's just in the patch notes. In game it's 2-10. This thread can be deleted.

Adding stun protection to Acrobatics would be a good idea IMO.

The new arena map "Ruined Ouroboros" is listed as for "2-16" players. It should be listed as 2-10. It only has 10 spawn points.

@America's Angel & @Angelbot are my two accounts.

@barrier Ah so you're saying the increased damage from procs on Homecoming wouldn't be as big of a deal if res buffs did more? If that's what you're saying then...yeah it seems like we actually agree on the same solution. (Buff res shields.) And yeah CM as an anti-mez/hold spike counter sounds good to me. Mez spikes not having a counter is one of the dumbest things in PVP IMO.

I don't understand what you're saying here. Damage wasn't a problem on live back when we had the old %chance-to-proc system. DR & resistance buffs & APP/PPP armours all still interact the same way they did pre-shut down. The only thing that's changed on Homecoming is the move to PPM, and Fire/Plant blasters fire/x corruptors and x/ice defenders slotting 3-5 procs in each attack. That's the cause of the Homecoming-exclusive "damage is too high" concern. Don't get me wrong, I don't want procs nerfing. It would negatively impact 1v1s too much. But they are the cause of the problem. Your idea of buffing +res shields is a good one. It'll help counter procs in 8v8, but not impact 1v1. Help me out - why does your/M3z's team hate raptor packs whilst Rare & Renegades are happy to play with them? Why are some teams cool with it, but some not?

This was also my initial thinking in the 8v8s I'd played these last few weeks. But then I realised that I was probably just surviving more because most people actually aren't actually that good at locking quickly/spiking in unison, and the snipe range nerf revealed this skill deficit. (A deficit that, until now, blazing bolt's insane range was hiding.) That said, I preferred the 8v8 meta on live. Where ranged damage was lower, so locking quickly/spiking in unison mattered more, and evading was harder. (You had to actually know how to evade by reading the match better, and knowing how to use distance/break LOS.) The problem, ofc, is that damage is too high right now due to procs to be able to reliably use LOS breaks/distance to evade. So Jaunt is required. So...how to balance this? It seems like a no-win situation. Ideas: Lower blaster HP to 1606. See if that fixes it. If not, then try... Increasing Jaunt's Cooldown to 20-30s. See if that fixes it. If not, then try... Decreasing proc damage. I'm hesitant about decreasing proc damage because this will negatively impact 1v1s. So I'd suggest trying the first two ideas, first. Also, I don't think Raptor Packs are a problem. Not when you can just take -fly powers. For example, Madvillain's been running a fire/dev in kickballs these last few weeks and it has been good at countering raptors.

Thank you for your feedback. It has been read.

All valid points. Personally I'd love CoH PVP to be balanced around 1v1, 1v1 is what I like the most. But my two big concerns for balancing around it would be how the current 8v8 meta is affected, and how much it would change the PVP system as a whole. (Change stuff too much and it'll kill off PVP ala Issue 13.) Worth talking about more post i27, though. My initial thoughts are we buff the underperforming melee sets (ice armour, dark armour, titan weapons, war mace, etc) to match the top ones (regen, EA, Inv, Super Strength, Dark Melee, Psy Melee, etc). Once that's done, then we can look at tweaking melee to make them balanced vs ranged. Maybe raising their damage, and reducing their durability is the answer? I don't know. But we'd need to buff the underperforming melee sets first IMO. And if we could do this without touching ranged? All the better.

*Fightclub eye twitch* I think the durability of some sets (regen, invuln, Elec, etc) are fine, and other weaker sets (Dark, Ice, etc) need bringing up. IMO, ranged should be balanced against ranged, and melee should be balanced against melee. This is a team game. Blasters don't need to be able to kill melee characters at range, Scrappers don't need to be able to catch and kill blasters in melee. Agree with the rest of your post, though. Taunt 100% needs nerfing. I like that it forces enemies to get in close. But I dislike HOW close they have to get, and that it's perma. Way overpowered. Also bigtime agree that melee attacks need their range increasing due to server tics. (Maybe to ~15ft like Knockout Blow? I can always land that fine.) It would need to be unenhanceable, though. (I always laugh when the alpha slot boosts my KO Blow range).

No. Possibly. (Or raise Corruptors/doms/controllers/defenders to match blasters). No. (Some melee sets need a buff. Some do not). No.

Wouldn't this make /plant even better when compared to the other blaster secondaries that have a +regen sustain? (Devices, Energy, etc).

Just realised that forcing LOS checks on teleports in PVP will probably remove the teleporting into cranes issue.

+1 I step into an 8v8 kickball and it instantly became a 1v1. It's a sign! XD But yeah, you can jaunt into the cranes/cages in Boomtown: You can just run out of the end of the cranes/jaunt of out of the cages when this happens. (Being in them makes you unattackable, though.) I also got caught in one of the pipes/ramps in Industrial. Was able to jaunt out of it fine, though. Both still fun maps, regardless. But yeah, loved testing these. <3 to the indom folks for not farming me too much.

Rocket Board, Flying Carpet, and Void Skiff from the P2W still work in PVP zones. So you should be able to badge there just fine. :) Just took this on Brainstorm:

Rework one of Dan Petro's stalker builds from here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FNejy_CHV4Khr9dy3m7wn8-J0OARwrSbHcKmkBRuG1Y/edit#gid=0 Alternatively, ask for tips in the build advice channel of the PVP Dicord, here: https://discord.gg/7mWuJVMW Good luck!

I like this very much. Makes them all equally viable, but keeps them different at the same time. @Alouu @macskull - thoughts?

All sounds good. I'd suggest leaving Med Pack alone for now, then. (Can always tweak later if it becomes a problem.)