Forager

Are you saying they changed the way they functioned, or the information that was displayed to players? My understanding was that it is a percentage, just not displayed as such.

I sink the beacons in the floor. I also used upside down stone portals sunk into floor to hide the teleporters in vehicles.

Then you should tell them what happens.

It certainly should be. It's the only ethical way to enforce rules on people. If someone is harassed, victimized or hurt by someone violating the rules, then they should know what the consequences are. They shouldn't accept on blind faith that the rules are properly enforced. How else would you keep the enforcers accountable? What if they're being lazy, incompetent, biaseed or are afraid of conflict? How would you know? And any person who can be trusted to enforce rules fairly should want accountability. Hiding disciplinary actions from victims is unethical.

I think they tried that once...

It doesn't have to be money, but a competent candidate would need to get something out of it. Students and interns will work for free if there's enough opportunity to learn and gain experience. Would working on this game provide that given it's age and the level of support they would receive? If what you're offering is "fulfillment" then the candidate would have to share the developer's vision or be able to fulfill their own at the same time. I would guess a large percentage of the people that meet that criteria are already here. Other than those two things, I don't know what else working on this game has to offer. So the very first step would be to identify what currency they do have. For a passion product, any deadlines or schedules are self imposed anyway, so "implementing things faster" might not be as important as just "implementing things." The current rate of updates is pretty impressive as is,.all things considered.

I think it's the type of thing that sorts itself out. Some people would be mortified if their mugshot was on the news, some people don't care. Some people hang out with convicts and some don't. If the original victim violates a rule, ban them too, but the victim's right to know what's going on trumps an offender's right to privacy.

Are you happy with the culture of this subforum? Or would you like it to change?

Are you talking about a character that is Ozzy, just a parody, or someone inspired by him? Ozzy Osbourne is probably a trademark and protected by intellectual property law. Not every person is trademarked, but a lot of celebrities are. Your take on a slurring, debaucherous rockstar with a goth aesthetic and British accent wouldn't violate any laws. That's an expy. If you named him Spazzy Spazbourne, he's a parody. That's all legal, but nobody knows how a GM would interpret them. On it's face, the ToS seems to only prohibit violations of intellectual property law, but those are not widely understood, so I don't know if the application in-game matches that. The typical forum goer response to this sort of thing is often unnecessarily cautious.

What would the fallout of that be?

Oh well that would clear it up. Could you quote that?

I wonder why you stopped there. If white salvage can go, it can all go... because it could all be influence. It's not truly a different currency. Why didn't you just argue to remove the salvage system?

Yes. Right. Great job. That is what is happening. No other way. That's what I said. That's what I meant. You are spot on. You understand it exactly. You're crushing it. Ooh, so close. I expected pushback. In a way, by suggesting something like this, I am inviting it. I'm saying that something people do is stupid. Of course there will be pushback. I just expected the pushback to be about how it's not stupid.

That's perhaps the best argument against it. It's just not a good system, or even a real one. It's busy work, not a mini game. There's no skill or strategy to it. It's not even luck or chance based because everything is on the auction house. It wouldn't be tolerated in a new game. The problem is that you're arguing that it's not fun with people who are not arguing that it is fun. They'll say you're trying to force them to play your way, or they will imply that the game economy will suffer, or they will point out other things white salvage does or even how easy it is to sort... but nobody is really saying it's a good system or "I enjoy sorting salvage." It is a boring, tedious, extra step that does not really qualify as gameplay. Nobody is actually arguing against that idea.

Ehh... it's not a terrible summary, but the reason it went so long was the whole "allowed" thing. I said it was stupid and we shouldn't do it... but they spent all these pages arguing that they're allowed to. That was never on the table, but lots of folks wanted to imagine it there. So yeah, I do think it's stupid and people shouldn't do it. (BUT YOU'RE ALLOWED TO!!!)

Would anyone care to take a stab at my actual point? I'm saying it's pointless to discuss something that you have no knowledge of, and the arguments have been "but we're allowed!" and now "but some people do know about it!" I'll even help. A good example of players contributing in this area is in the eye blast thread, with players looking for animations that already exist in game. That's players with a grasp of the limitations using their knowledge and experience to improve on an idea. Has it occurred to anyone of the hit dogs hollering that maybe I'm not talking about intelligent, informed posts? Maybe I'm just talking about intellectually dishonest people with no knowledge and experience retreating to this argument when they don't have anything to add and can't refute any points, but shooting down ideas is their hobby. I thought it was like 3 or 4 dudes. I was posting about 3 or 4 dudes. I was going to cite the flipside of "a hit dog or holler" which is "if it don't apply, let it fly" but after pages and pages of... this... I don't know what to think. Maybe the current culture of this forum is one that the development team is happy with? It's weird to me, but it appears I'm the minority on that.

So the new objection is "Some people do know about these things!" Cool..? Good for them?

I used to do it that way. But now I pop pills a handful at a time like a pro so now my columns are cocktails.

It is mindless busy work. Some people enjoy that, though. In a newer game, I don't think anyone would be defending this system. It's clearly a fake salvage and crafting system. You're not looking for flowers in their native region or hunting a certain part from a specific clockwork... it is definitely fugazi. Think about the glowies we use for "clues" and mechanics in the heist part of the Summer Blockbuster event. You might be surprised at what other people think is fun. A lot of players like sorting their salvage and pretending it really is salvage. What would you replace that with.

I got you. It's the part where you using a power means another player can't use theirs. That is control. You believe that it's a control "for their own good" but it's a control nonetheless. Your dissenters are arguing for their right to waste the power activation.

I think the talking point is allowed, but pointless. If you don't think the mod and dev response supports that opinion... ok? I don't personally think it takes a lot of histrionics to get to that interpretation, but you're totally allowed to think that too.

Yes! Exactly.

People with no knowledge or insight into the development process. People who don't know what the devs can, can't, will or won't do. People who don't know how those decisions are made. People that don't know that they don't know these things.

So we have some evidence that the talking point could be put to rest. You're allowed to continue using it, of course. I understand that it's very important for some of you that we reiterate a few times that you're allowed. You're allowed. It's allowed. Just because something is pointless doesn't mean you have to quit. It's your time. Have fun!

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