Forager

A summary thus far. I said something was dumb and counterproductive. Everyone argued that they were allowed to do it... over and over... with nobody. A dev said they were allowed to do it. People celebrated. You really can move the goalposts if you have enough help.

Well thats obviously not true lol.

Lol... what do y'all think happened? He said you were free to discuss it. You were always free to discuss it. You will always be free to discuss it. Point #1 was that it is stupid. That point still stands tall. I don't think anyone ever even addressed it. You all just argued with the censorship ghost. Y'all gonna latch onto that first sentence like the second one isn't there lol.

The most control you have is picking front, middle or back as spawn points. Some maps have a lot of possibilities for those, some maps have less, some maps have one or even none. Outdoor maps you have no control over. I actually have the most luck walking around in test mode and looking at the spawn points on the mini map to help me figure out where to put them. Green is front, white is middle, red is back (blue in the editor). If you really want things to happen in a certain order AND be placed predictably or easy to find, you have to select the map to match your mechanics, or match your mechanics to the map. For instance, some places have multiple spawn points marked as "back" in one room, close together. This would let you have things happen back there in a certain order without making the player search by marking them all to spawn in "back." Otherwise, the typical solution would be to put your ally in the front, the boss in the back and hope the player finds the ally. Some places have only one spawn point marked "front" for an ally, so finding him is easy and straightforward. Some have a bunch and they're easier to pass. P.S. And yeah some of the maps in the editor do show the floors out of order.

Alphabetic always seemed weird to me. I group city and hazard together. 1. The cab is Low level blue + Pocket D 2. The hot rod is High level blue 3. The 4x4 is Red zones 4. Praetoria is of course the coolest looking, least practical teleporter and I never use it. 5. Shadow Shard is at the complete other end of the room. 6. The flyer is Terra Volta, Kallisti Wharf and RWZ because those 3 just seem weird to me and are separate. I have another one elsewhere in the base with Atlas Park, Talos Island, Peregrine Island, Grandville, Pocket D and RWZ as a little fast travel station. I end up using that one a lot if I'm over there and see something on LFG.

What? You don't like your huge model, war-god themed characters with wings breakdancing?

What do you think?

Yeah... that. That's who I'm talking about. Did all these folks just assume I meant them?

What do you think about posters arguing that an idea would be too difficult to implement? How valuable is that sort of discussion to you?

Because OP suggested it and it sounded fun and cool? That also sounds fun and cool.

^ That's pretty fair. About point 1, I think my original explanation is fine as it stands. I think it's a full stop, irrelevant topic that is at best nothing and most likely counterproductive. I think the problem with 2 might be terminology based. When I say people are "voting" I meant that's their mindset. Basically they might not think they're voting, but they're thinking like their voting. It's a pretty abstract and subjective idea. I get why it doesn't resonate. The problem with 3... that's just like... my opinion man. I think if you're not part of the solution, you're not part of the conversation. People can disagree with that just like they can disagree with other suggestions. People can post "I don't like it!" and give no reason. They can be ignored. They're not part of the conversation to me. I have no quarrel with posts that just say "I don't like it." I don't consider them at all. They're nothing. I think people confused me personally thinking something is pointless with "it shouldn't be allowed." I'm not a mod. You're allowed to do things that I don't like. I'm allowed to dislike them. You're even allowed to dislike me disliking them. Theres a chance that things that are allowed are not good.

Umm... lol. I'll indulge this. Quote me on that.

I have never used Black Hole... so forgive my ignorance... But shouldn't it ideally just be a trawl that lasts for a few seconds with a large area of effect? And if it doesn't work on a target, it just doesn't work on a target? Am I missing something? It seems obvious that's what the power should be. Is that the consensus?

That's not what OP is suggesting. They are suggesting an echo version. They are not suggesting anything be changed about Founders Falls. They are suggesting a new, separate zone. It wouldn't block anything.

This thread has been so bizarre. I said that there are bad actors spoiling the discussions here. I said there were a few pieces of guidance that would improve the discussions. The replies have amounted to "You're trying to censor us!" "If you don't like it, too bad!" and "How about a place with NO discussion?" And then there's been a pile ironic posters defending the right to criticize things they don't like... while criticizing me personally... for criticizing something that I don't like. It's been a fun time.

That's one possibility. Some people got it, though, so it's hard to be sure.

That's exactly what would happen... or worse people would make new threads in that subforum to reply. A subforum that you can't reply to isn't really a forum. I don't think that idea has anything to do with the problem being discussed.

Oh man... no... I'm not a mod. I'm not telling you what you can and can't say. I'm giving my opinion of the things people do say. I didn't think it was that nuanced, but a LOT of people have missed it, so at least you aren't alone.

Ooph... wait. How come you didn't quote this part of his post? Just slow down... take a beat. The enhancement says it makes the power instant cast. The individual power says what happens when that power is instant cast or not instant cast. You very conspicuously ignored @macskull's point to try and force yours through. Maybe you think that the enhancement should have a little warning in the text? Like "Check the power description to see what this means." Is that what you think?

Well, that settles it. You meant this position, right? "Complaining that people take part in process of refinement of ideas in a way you don't like? -That- is pretty ignorant." -Steampunkette That's the one you didn't think was ironic...

"A hit dog will holler." Nobody proposed censorship. Ignoring isn't a solution... and you're allowed to disagree. I understand the defensiveness upon finding out that a talking point you have used before is stupid. It seems that this word has caused an emotional reaction in some of you and some of you may have taken it personally. Everybody does stupid things from time to time. Everybody overreacts, projects, speaks without thinking... everybody does that. You're not stupid because you've done something stupid. You didn't know it was stupid. That's fine. I explained why. I think there are a few bad apples spoiling this bunch. This is one of their favorite talking points and they will retreat to it when they can't defend or address any points being made. I think addressing one of their most common talking points will go a long way towards improving conversations. There are a few others, but this one is the best one to address. If you're not one of these folks, then I'm not talking about you. If you are, flame on I guess.

It is. I haven't. It wasn't.

We don't. We don't have those. I have not proposed any. I don't think anyone has.

I'm proposing efforts to improve the quality of conversations here. Commentary and critique are necessary for lively, productive conversations.

I don't think I've ever even made a suggestion before this one... And as I've said over and over, I am not suggesting a single rule change. I never have and never would. I'm largely against censorship. You're allowed to disagree. You should be allowed to disagree. You have assigned an opinion to me and then argued very passionately against it. I don't know how to help you.