thunderforce

Trilogy (Night Ward), book 3, Chapter 16, briefing: "'If this is right, the warehouse in town should have the information you need to see,' Mercenary muttered. Something you need to see. Let's go before the robots destroy the evidence you need.'" Missing speech mark before "Something". The clue reads "Character uncovered family photos of Epoch as a child growing up. There seemed to be another person in the photos, a sibiling from the looks of it. Mercenary looked Character straight in the eyes and told him / her what he read in Epoch's journal." "Sibling".

Trilogy (Night Ward), "The Final Book: Chapter 7", the compass clue says "Determine the robot's Plan". "robots' plan" (ie, bogus apostrophe, bogus capital letter). The clue at the end says "Either the book was well read of the robots were not very careful" - should be "or the robots". Book the First: Chapter 22: "They knew that the leader of the robots was overseeing the last part-of this operation personally and they could strike a great blow if they could take him out." Bogus hyphen. "Their investigation had told them there were four computers that needed to be shut down in order to prevent catastrophy from befalling the valley. Using equal parts force and stealth, Epoch and Character make their way into the labs where the controls lie." - sudden switch to present tense.

This is what Abysmalaxia actually thinks of the game. Please don't be dragged in.

This is what Abysmalaxia actually thinks of the game. Please don't be dragged in.

I'm afraid I'm basically trying to palm the job of verifying the formulae / collecting the data off on you, since you've written a guide about it anyway and fixing up the Wiki is a semi-infinite task. I might get around to it at some point, though.

I removed the Wiki's existing table, which was wrong in a number of respects. I suppose what I think would be most useful is if someone were to experiment and confirm the cap formulae posted upthread.

Trilogy (Night Ward), final mission (in their nominal order) debrief: "He / She knew that Epoch was smiling down upon them from wherever he was though, and that was a comforting thought." - comma before "though". Second book, chapter 2, briefing: "What happened here? Where did the people go." Question mark.

You say that, but you've yet to really explain what people get out of it. Is there really anyone for whom steamrollering -1s with incarnate abilities isn't enough, so they have to be allowed to steamroller -4s? (Also, the proposed optional incarnate level shift for mobs... wouldn't stop them doing it.)

Levels are, yes, a game system. Not part of the lore. That's my point. Nothing to do with levels can contradict lore. The second part of this isn't saying more than that you personally want to steamroll stuff. Fine: with a full set of T4s and the Notoriety at -1, you can steamroll stuff whether or not you get a level shift. Other people would like a challenge; don't deny them it. (It seems pretty clear, in fact, that the DA story arcs were designed to challenge incarnates, given the selection of mobs with nasty ability combinations; it didn't work, but that was the design.)

On reflection I think it may always have been this way. I can't remember a time when, say, Super Jump wasn't much better at high level than low (to a greater degree than slotting a single SO would explain).

I've just made a discovery. At first I thought I was losing my mind, but I've tested it on both live and beta. Speed caps change with level. It didn't use to be this way (see https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Travel_Powers which quite blithely tells you it's 58.63 mph at level 1) but it's super easy to demonstrate - be a character who's not level 50 and turn on Fly. (If on the beta server, you can use /levelupxp to put your level up and down and watch your flight speed change in Combat Attributes. At low levels, Super Jump hits a (lower) cap unaugmented - 55.27 mph at level 4. It's harder to demonstrate with Super Speed, but take it and be a level 22 character with one +3 SO in it - capped at 76.46. It seems like this might be worth mentioning.

You missed the point; it's nothing to do with Giant Monsters. In lore, all enemies are "levelless". No-one has ever heard of a "level". Mobs getting a level shift has nothing to do with the lore. But if you can somehow pretend that "levels" are a part of lore, you might as well ask how it is that players can never exceed level 50 but mobs can. It makes no less sense than complaining about mobs getting a level shift to make them challenging.

It doesn't break the game to design around gameplay first and let the lore (where enemies don't even have "levels") adapt to fit. You might as well demand that no enemy be allowed to be over level 50 at all, because that's how it is for players.

There isn't such a need and the proposal doesn't force people to fight purples. The current system is at the expense of normal difficulty settings; in DA, if you want to make full use of the interesting bits of incarnate abilities, the Notoriety scale effectively goes from -4 to +1 rather than the normal -1 to +4. (Outside DA it goes from -2 to +3, which is less bad... but if having less level shift means a less bad thing happens, what do we conclude?) I think the idea of being able to add "incarnate level shifts" to enemies, posted upthread, is a good one. It makes it optional (and while I think removing level shifts altogether outside of iTrials would be a good idea, I recognise there will be enormous pushback to that). Why not just add +7 Notoriety? The "incarnate level shifts" wouldn't need enemy groups' level ranges to be revised, and in my view should not provide bonus XP and inf - it's just a challenge setting for people, not a tool for farming.

Marcus Valerius's personal story, in-mission caption: "I have lost count of the days we spent over seas..." "over seas" should be "at sea" - "overseas" is where he is now. Trilogy (Night Ward): Mission briefings all start with a sentence of the form "(The first book of Trilogy opens to a random page) Character found himself / herself at the entrance of the warehouse on the outskirts of town". Full stop after "random page)", and I suggest a paragraph break too.

We had an interesting discussion on Discord about this. What I mean, I suppose, is that of course people enjoy a sense of progression - but to me a very strong sense of progression is given by unlocking and improving incarnate abilities, because there are definite changes in gameplay (which is why "just don't slot them" is not a good answer), but there's only a very weak sense of progression from fighting 54s at level 50+3 rather than the exact same mobs, 51, at level 50. In the latter case, if you weren't allowed to see mob levels you would find it pretty hard even to know it had changed. Another way of putting it is that I feel that beating "+4" when level shifts have made it functionally +1 is a bit like filling my wallet with photocopies of money and then telling myself I'm rich. I appreciate there _are_ people who enjoy that, but in my view the damage done to people who want bona-fide +4 and can't have it is much greater, and the constant complaints about challenge levels seem to bear that out.

And the status quo does deny people that option, so supporting the status quo means being in favour of denying people that option. Which seems an odd thing to be in favour of, given that a constant topic here is people's desire for more challenge to be available and that removing level shifts would provide that without denying anyone any particular kind of gameplay (since fighting 53s at 53 is really extremely like fighting 50s at 50).

I did wonder if I should just anticipate this response and reply to it in advance. Why do you want to deny people the option of playing with incarnate abilities, but against tough enemies at a bona-fide +4?

You are correct. However, there's a fair chunk of DA to feel good about beating "+4" that isn't in, and I think the way that incarnate level shifts do most damage when a 3-level shift is available (because someone who likes to play actually at +4 can't get even close) helps to illustrate why actually they're harmful outside of iTrials.

It seems to me that incarnate level shifts have several unwanted effects. First of all, they exacerbate the way that non-Incarnates on mixed teams are reduced to spear carriers. (Of course, this could be addressed by having sidekicking up to 50+ make you 50, not 49). Secondly, on Homecoming, you can get Incarnate drops from any enemy defeated provided they are even-con or higher. Suppose someone normally plays at around +0, for whatever reason. An incarnate shift means they almost have to crank this up to +1 or +3, depending... in order to do exactly what they'd be doing anyway, but with slightly bigger numbers. The incarnate shift doesn't do them any good at all, except inasmuch as they get slightly more XP and inf; I think it's worth considering whether you should get more XP and inf for defeating an even-con minion at "50+3" than at 50, since it is no more challenging, and your veteran levels and AH desires don't cost any more XP or inf because you are 50+3. Thirdly, suppose someone normally plays at higher Notoriety. Their incarnate shift can make it impossible for them to have the difficulty they enjoy. It's actively damaging their gameplay, which is why we regularly see requests for +7/+8. What are the benefits of the level shift? It can let the person who normally plays on +0 and has an AT/build that struggles with DA mobs do missions they couldn't do otherwise if they're willing to forgo incarnate drops. That's undeniably a benefit, but it's not clear that there's much that can't be solved by putting it down to -1, which is like a level shift but on-demand rather than forced. It lets people feel good about beating "+4" provided they don't care that it is essentially just +1 renamed. To be frank, I don't think this is useful. It's a great help in iTrials. (ETA: it can let people solo TFs they couldn't otherwise. If this is felt to be desirable, allowing Incarnates to have -1 Notoriety apply in all content would have the same effect, but again the reduction in difficulty would be optional, not forced.) Hence I propose the level shift apply only in iTrials. Now, I know this is going to get a lot of pushback, to put it mildly, but please try and explain what's wrong with what I wrote above. I'd have pushed back against this idea until I realised all my shiny new level shifts were doing was making me push the Notoriety up and down as I go in and out of DA.

Gah. I mean "Screenshot, please?" but this darn forum won't let me edit my own posts. Speaking of bugs. 🙂

Screenshot. (Also, see https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Reward_Merit_Vendor#Advice - you don't want to buy ATOs with merits.)

Maria Jenkins, "Stop Diabolique before she enslaves the spirits of the graveyard", debrief: "Diabolique's essence has been supressed, but for how long? You were incredibly brave Character, you went to the Magisterium itself and survived!". "Suppressed", comma after "brave". (Also, uh, I started life in the Magisterium, y'know.) ITF, mission 1 debrief: "They seem to thrive from large black shadow crystals hidden within those tunnels." I don't think one can "thrive from" something. "Thrive on"? But they don't eat them. (Do they?) End of mission 3, in-mission message: "You've defeated Romulus Augustus and stopped their attack on Paragon City and the Rogue Isles." I'm all for singular "they" when appropriate, but Romulus's gender is pretty clear, so I suggest "his". Sister Solaris, first mission briefing: "We were going to send the captain of the guard, Marcus Valerius with a squad of our strongest soldiers, however the spirit warned that only those of god-like stature should try to visit this 'island of death'." Comma after "Valerius". Semicolon after "soldiers". Comma after "however". The mission can't quite decide if it's the "Island of Death" (proper name) or just "the island of death". The clue got when getting the idol says "Images flash in your mind, that of your past" - perhaps "images of your past". "You see yourself falling into the maws of Mot, followed by an image of the planet earth being devoured" - "Earth" is a proper noun, and "maws" might be a typo (Mot may have maws plural, but we've only seen one maw eating each victim so far). (Peeking ahead a long way, the souvenir from Sister Solaris misspells "successful" as "succesful" twice.

Is this a bug report or a suggestion? IDK. There are some oddities in terms of Praetorians not being able to get Day Job badges in locations one might logically expect. They can't get Commuter, even though the zones all have CTA stations. They can get Clubber... but not in Studio 55. They can't get Duelist from the Arena terminals in Pocket D. They can't get Tailor from the Fashion Designer in Imperial City.

No; the OP is suggesting having the option of paying for everything in your SG base if you find that satisfying. Again, it's not actually forbidden to read the OP.