marcussmythe

What would be fertile ground for testing, if anyone had the opportunity and energy would be to see what the sets look like as they bleed together with IOs. Assume, lets say, Radiation Armor on both sides - solid resist set, so simple to measure. Pair it with War Mace, a set with minimal mechanical weirdness. Take the Brute and aim its build towards toughness - chase set bonuses to try to match the toughness of the tank. On the tank, do the same thing, only in the other direction - use your slotting, etc. to try to duplicate the Brutes offense (likely breaking defensive set bonuses in the name of damage dealing procs) I wonder what they look like where they merge? What do they look like when they pass each other in each direction? What is the 'spread' of design space for each in terms of practical value? I anticipate that we will find the Brute capable of 'just doesnt die' toughness (though at a higher opportunity cost than on a tank - who can probably get to 'just doesnt die' for the vast majority of relevant content without set bonuses, much less IOs) - but the brute will be able to swing further into the damage spectrum. This suggests (as we have access to more than one build) that the Brute will cover a larger role spread - built for toughness a brute is more than tough enough, and built for offense, they will have more firepower than the most offensive tank. OTOH, the Tank MAY end up at higher offense when matching defense, or higher defense when matching offense, as the brute if they are build-merging by chosing different set bonuses. I wish Mids was better at evaluating procs, it would be interesting....

Gobbledygook - Just dinged 50. No pylon times to report (and there probably never will be - she isnt for that). Leaning hard on Mu+Whirling Hands for AOE, and an Adrenal Boost-Buildup-Energy Transfer-Bonesmasher-Energy Punch-Barrage cycle on bosses. Attacks are heavily procmonstered - 3-4 procs in each, except energy punch (took a whole Tanker ATO set) and bonesmasher/barrage (spit the other tanker ATO set, plus 3 procs) - because I wanted to double-dip the sweet, sweet Energy Resist 3 Piece. So far? Shes tougher than my fully incarnate non-procced Lvl 50 TW/Bio (against most content) due to the higher defense, DDR, resist, and massive base HP (though I do miss the crazy heal). Here damage falls fall short (of course!) but its comfortably soloable ,and reasonable for the sort of 'mission farming' I like to do - IDK if its really farming, I just run my missions at x8/+whatever Im comfortable with. (Barring things like Carnies, Imperial Defense - she DOES handle Malta! at x8 okay, which is a happy surprise) Basically, Invuln gives enough resist and def that you can afford to go heavily into procs. No doubt she could be far tougher, but shes tough enough. That being said, the start of this show is procs, and the Mu Epic (Let me put it this way - I took Mu before I took Energy Transfer, and I would do so again). Energy Transfer is a decent performer, but with her long animation time, she mostly sits on cooldown unless Im firing on an undamaged LT or a Boss. Total Focus I picked up, and then put down and walked away. It does not spark joy. Frankly, it might be a better build without Energy Transfer, but if I dont take either, why am I even Energy Melee? Current Thoughts: 1.) TF needs to be a good bit faster to justify its existence. 2.) EM needs its old animation back at current damage and self damage, OR to retain its current animation, with the SELF damage removed and instead moved over to 'damage out' 3.) Whirling Hands is in large part a less useful AOE than ones from epic pools. A bit more radius and damage might help here - wouldnt need to be A LOT, just enough to be competitive with the other good tank AOEs. 4.) Stun... IDK what to do with stun. I still think 'Ground Punch, AOE Knockup explosion, moderate damage' would be good. With those changes, Id probably take the whole set. And I should want to take the whole set.

Hunh. Me neither! At least cold resist is easy to patch, because Winter-Os?

Fair! For whatever reason (despite my characters tending to have similar resists to F/C/E/NE), its always been the Energy Damage dealers that flattened me the hardest - mostly notably the Paragon Police Department Awakened Division, AKA 'Cascade Collapse in a Can'. Though in all fairness, the Banished ARE pretty terrible. For me it was all the debuffing...

Fortunately, Negative and Cold are almost unheard of at endgame.

You may find it useful to shoot for 80 or so with toughness off. Toughness can boost you to 90 if necessary, and the ATO proc may as well.

I like that! I was slot tight, wanted the set bonuses, and I find with even a few appropriate frankenslots, you can get your required acc/dam/etc. on an attack. The main advantage would be filling out more slots for procmonstering. Smite is in there because 1.) It makes me happy, and 2.) I like the DPA. Shadow Maul is in rotation if you've got 2 or more targets, but I don't love its damage per animation on single hard targets, and its single hard targets that sadden me the most in game. Also a very good point. I can just fire punch in favor of Smite, and move the slots around. Gloom-Smite-Siphon-Smite, no need for punch at all. Move the MoT over onto Smite.. with it being the core part of the rotation, and on a longer recharge, will hopefully see the +RES proc more often that way. Still, going to take your version and kick the tires on it on test - may end up liking it better. Thanks for getting back to me! And yes, for whatever reason, Energy Resist is super hard to slot for, and super common at endgame. I anticipate the combination of these two facts is a lot of what drives the worship that Radiation Armor gets on these forums.. Radiation Armor really seems to have been designed AFTER someone played engame for a nice long time and went 'Hunh, Defense is mostly useless due to debuffs, and theres a lot of spikey and a lot of energy damage. Hey, lets build a set specifically to deal WITH THAT FACT PATTERN.. and we will give it energy management tools and extra damage! Brilliant!

For me, COF is a given - for the debuff alone! But you have a very good point about Elec or Rad as an endgame resist armor, based purely on their strength in energy resist if nothing else. Ill probably end up with a ‘cloak of all the things/presence/vigilante/control incarnte’ approach, if only because it seems more fun than yet another (for me) resist/defense math exercise

Im really curious to hear back on the soft-control experiences. Is there anything that would otherwise kill you that the soft control lets you survive? If so, what? My expectation is if it helps anywhere, it will help with the energy damage/def debuff crowd (Im looking at you, P.P.D.)

Relying HEAVILY on Roy's very clever work above, I've fiddled with something to get a bit more damage out and variety in the attack chain, at the cost of a chunk of the survival he offers. My expectation is will still be tough enough for most things, but able to solo better (I dont get to team as much as I would like). Attack Cycle is going to be Gloom->Smite->Punch->Siphon->Smite for single target DPS (you could get a bit more weaving in Oblit, but its hard to juggle), or if you want to heal more, Smite->Punch->Siphon->Punch Anything good is because I ripped off Roy and learned from how he slots things, anything bad is because I tried to make it do stuff it shouldnt. 🙂 Incarnate softcap, 51% S/L, 36% F/C, 24% T/P, 18% E/N (Im worried about the E/N, should I be?) Anyway, criticism sought.

Also, a note - I think some of the deep love everyone feels for Radiation (other than it being, yannow, really really good) is that its strengths play so well to endgame, specifically the energy resists. I do sometimes wonder if later released sets were designed with forethought towards endgame, and IO sets - they seem to be carefully crafted to work well with them.

Reporting back in. Long Hiatus, and then spending time with other characters. Deep 30s, massive respec into a 'leveling build' that is more END stable and more offensive focused than before. Life is far, far better - the combination of resistance and heal is carrying things for now (soft controls and defense will come later), and with my end woes cured by slotting, hes a happy little wrecking ball. Attached below is an endgame 'survival' version of the build, that sacrifices all else in the name of that survival (while still being okay on offense). My leveling build will probably grown into an 'all offense' build, leaning hard into recharge, damage, procs.. Im not sure what, as Ive not wrapped my head around that design space yet. If anyone has a suggested Dark Armor/Titan Weapons Tank Build, tweaked for maximum output (via procmonster, recharge, etc. - whatever you suggest) I would love to read it.

No need to apologize. Its been at least a week, I think? More than enough time for 50 with full IOs and full incarnates in the modern mileu.

I counsel patience - despite the fact that the Thing I Want Most is hopefully in Page 6, Ive all the love and respect for people working for my fun in their free time, for free. And especially so when the world is on fire, and we need whatever happy distraction we can find.

Way too early to have a procmonster opinion. Shes lvl 14 right now, and will be for a while yet - Im doing an ‘all contacts full bar’ run, and have alts to feed as well. Further, youll probably learn more with an hour on test or by reading Myshkin than by listening to me - Im just a filthy casual these days, and tip my hat in passing to the master-class players. That said, EM is at its strongest early, where its early attacke are reasonably competitive with other peoples, AOE isnt a thing yet, and the ability to stun a Lieutenant class baddie actually makes a real difference in your survival, so Im having a blast. Also, Ive kinda changed how I look at CoH - not as a game, with competition or ‘best’ - we all know whats best, and we can all build it if we want to bad enough - but instead as a ‘what sounds fun’ sandbox. Sure, EM still is objectively terrible - but destruction spell mages are fun in Skyrim, even if they are objectively terrible compared to Stealth Archers.

If your focused on pure survival over all, I think stone probably still takes it - though at huge cost. Invuln can probably catch up with Rad on resist, while offering more DEF and DDR. You just give up all the other goodies rad gets, and will probably need to pair it with something offering a heal to finish closing the difference. Heraclea, whose opinion on all things Tank I deeply respect, considers Invuln/Dark Melee to be the go to answer. In the alternate, the Rad/Staff approach sounds like a real winner, and one I had not considered. Good advice, folks. (aside - I have not explored the design space for stacking resist on the positional defense sets. Its possible that you could pump solid resists onto the DDR capped Positional DEF capped SRs or Shields to match the resist set numbers above - though both of those sets lack the healing power of Rad Armor, so your again going begging to Dark Melee or Aid Self)

Making changes/suggestions at this late stage is very difficult, as everyone is pretty deeply invested in the way things are. Any change to a powerset of a beloved character creates labor for the player, as they juggle and readjust - unless it is not just positive, but seamlessly so, without tradeoffs. And we in general react poorly to labor in our fun. Similarly, a certain type of player perceives any positive change in a powerset/AT not his own as a threat to the viability of their preferred character and playstyle. So it is thus far easier, and likely far more emotionally rewarding, to tear down others ideas than propose ones own. Something something Theodore Roosevelt. So, to the OP - a brilliant idea, and it deserves to be explored further and written up into formal proposals. The fact that these proposals will be widely panned by those invested in the way things are, and then utterly ignored by everyone with the power to do anything about them, is unfortunate and discouraging, but that never stopped us. Postscript: One wonders if the reason we see such remorseless power creep is because the developers were learning to do it better, but its easier to make a new thing than fix an old thing?

You said the quiet part loud.

Because in at least some cases, these particular powersets bring little or nothing to the table, compared to equally survivable compatriots. Most of your sets with T9 Suicide Buttons are older sets, show it, lacking damage, sustainability, or utility mechanisms present in later, better designed sets.

As it offers the least AOE, no self heal or end mechanics, and no utility, I see no reason it should not be #1 in single target performance, and by a reasonable margin.

Remember the pain of leveling her before, Ive elected to do a ‘full contact completion run’... set at -1, run everything, turn off XP to avoid outleveling contacts, etc. Removes all the stress from not being able to XP faster, and ties character advancement to story progression/people helped/city saved rather than to rate of minion murder. Is really relaxing. Would recommend.

Thank you very kindly for the feedback! Im thinking that I would use this for an offense build - theres a tanker soul in me that hates giving up my '90% resist all damage 50%+ DEF' build that comes from keeping sets together. Ill try to get an updated version and reply for more feedback and thoughts. I really appreciate the time and energy spent on my old gal. Shes tryin to be an Issue 0 Tanker in an Issue Lots World. (EDIT) Updated with most of your suggestions, juggled some things to get more ACC. Shed some DEF, but its a RES set more than DEF, and I think I can afford to bleed some survival out of the IO side of things - worst case, Melee Hybrid pays for many holes in survival. Trying the experimentation pool for adrenal booster - if we are trying to find damage in the old set, it seems a good place to start, though I've not used Adrenal Booster before. Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.962 http://www.cohplanner.com/ Click this DataLink to open the build! H E R O I 😄 Level 50 Science Tanker Primary Power Set: Invulnerability Secondary Power Set: Energy Melee Power Pool: Leadership Power Pool: Speed Power Pool: Flight Power Pool: Experimentation Ancillary Pool: Pyre Mastery Hero Profile: Level 1: Resist Physical Damage -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(3) Level 1: Barrage -- SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(A), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(3), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), Mk'Bit-Dam%(7), PrfZng-Dam%(7) Level 2: Temp Invulnerability -- Ags-ResDam(A), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx(9), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(9), Ags-ResDam/Rchg(11), Ags-Psi/Status(13), Ags-EndRdx/Rchg(50) Level 4: Dull Pain -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(15), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(15), Prv-Heal/Rchg(17), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(17), Prv-Absorb%(19) Level 6: Resist Elements -- RctArm-ResDam(A), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(19), ImpArm-ResPsi(21) Level 8: Unyielding -- HO:Ribo(A), HO:Ribo(21) Level 10: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def(23), RedFrt-EndRdx(23), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(25), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(25), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(27) Level 12: Resist Energies -- RctArm-ResDam(A), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(27), ImpArm-ResPsi(29) Level 14: Tactics -- AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(29) Level 16: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(31) Level 18: Invincibility -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), ShlWal-Def(31), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(31), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(33), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(33) Level 20: Energy Punch -- CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), GldStr-Acc/Dmg(33), Mk'Bit-Dam%(34), GldStr-%Dam(34), TchofDth-Dam%(34), PrfZng-Dam%(36) Level 22: Fly -- Flight-I(A) Level 24: Bone Smasher -- Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg(A), CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), TchofDth-Dam%(36), Mk'Bit-Dam%(37), GldStr-%Dam(37), PrfZng-Dam%(37) Level 26: Tough Hide -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), Rct-ResDam%(39), LucoftheG-Def(50) Level 28: Taunt -- PrfZng-Dam%(A) Level 30: Whirling Hands -- ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg(A), ScrDrv-Dam%(39), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(39), PrfZng-Dam%(40), Obl-%Dam(40), Arm-Dam%(40) Level 32: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), GssSynFr--Build%(42) Level 35: Energy Transfer -- CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg(42), TchofDth-Dam%(42), Mk'Bit-Dam%(43), GldStr-%Dam(43), Hct-Dam%(43) Level 38: Char -- GldJvl-Acc/Dmg(A), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(45), GldJvl-Dam%(45), Apc-Dam%(45), GldNet-Dam%(46), UnbCns-Dam%(46) Level 41: Experimental Injection -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A), RgnTss-Regen+(48) Level 44: Total Focus -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg(48) Level 47: Speed of Sound -- Clr-Stlth(A) Level 49: Adrenal Booster -- HO:Membr(A), HO:Membr(50) Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A) Level 1: Gauntlet Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A) Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A) Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A) Level 4: Ninja Run Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A) Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(11) Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A) Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-End%(13), EndMod-I(48) Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon Level 50: Ion Core Final Judgement Level 50: Reactive Radial Flawless Interface Level 50: Ageless Core Epiphany Level 50: Melee Core Embodiment ------------

If my wishes were fishes, stun would be replaced by some kind of ground-punch PBAOE. Punch the ground and the ground explodes, causing knockup?

Invuln/EM tank, here. Currently playing up (slowly!) a replacement for the one lost with live out of sheer optimism.

I feel you. And I get the 'please god dont break it'. I have some doubts that merely reverting the animation change would be sufficient... but yes, that is the first step. (As an aside, Id love to have some 'alternate' animations for certain attacks. Same animation time, but just give us some variety to choose from. Many cool animations have been added since EM was created - and I like having choices)