Maelwys

Sorry, that post was a generalisation rather than specifically addressing the exact mechanics of precisely when the Superior Critical Strikes Proc activates. As I understand it; whenever you trigger any power you have to wait until its Animation Time Before Effect duration expires (likely adjusted for Arcanatime, since AFAIK server clock ticks still apply whenever a parent effect triggers a pseudopet or child effect). At that point anything the power actually does or contains (including Procs) get parsed and (if you're lucky) triggered. The SCS Proc itself is composed of two parts - the first is the base "boost" which itself has an Animation Time Before Effect duration of 0.5s. The second is the Proc effect which is classified as a Set Bonus and ALSO has an Animation Time Before Effect duration of 0.5s. Conventional Community Wisdom holds that the actual 3.25s buff window kicks in at [Triggering Power's Animation Time Before Effect (potentially rounded up for server ticks) + 0.5 seconds (potentially also rounded up)] but because that second "Proc" effect has its own activation there could be an additional delay happening of a further [0.5 seconds (seriously are we rounding up or not?!?)] Then you have another questionmark over whether the buff window (once it's actually kicked in!) needs to extend into the initial animation time of an attack, or until that attack's Animation Time Before Effect - although the second seems far more likely. Unfortunately I don't personally have the free time to do much RL testing on this at the moment due to childminding antics; but I do know that the Gaussian and Decimation Procs function in exactly the same manner as the SCS Proc (they have identical two-part 'Set Bonus' components and 0.5s Animation Time Before Effect durations); and the effects of those Procs are quite straightforward to test and observe due to the guaranteed raw damage boost (as opposed to an "additional chance for a crit", which may or may not result in a crit occurring which may or may not have happened without the buff!) plus a nice big buff icon on your screen...

Fair point and apologies. That was likely a toddler-sleep-deprivation-induced brainfart rather than a typo. That said, the numbers in that post you're referring to still shed considerable doubt on your statement that "Fury in its present state is just fine to make a Brute handily outdamage a scrapper who isn't using the ATOs". Consider: + A solo Scrapper without ATOs but with a Musculature Core Alpha and a /SD secondary (AAO vs 1 Foe) @10% Crit Rate will remain ahead of a Brute until 83+ Fury. + A solo Scrapper without ATOs but with a Musculature Core Alpha plus a /Bio Secondary (Offense + Hardened Carapace) @10% Crit Rate will remain ahead until 88+ Fury. + If we ignore Damage Buffs from the Secondary (Scrappers gain 1.25x the buff from self +DamageStrength compared to a Brute; so it could be seen as unfair) and just take the Musculature Alpha then the Scrapper would require an additional +17% damage (@80 Fury) or +32% Damage (@85 Fury) to begin to pull ahead. Those are trivial numbers to reach solo with Set Bonuses, let alone with outside buffage from teammates/pets. Therefore there is definitely a point that is pretty trivial to reach for many powerset combinations where Scrapper ATOs are just "icing on the cake". Without any +Damage from an Alpha slot then things would certainly shift in favour of the Brute... however the breakpoints (+49% Damage @80 Fury and +65% Damage @85 Fury) still aren't exactly insurmountable even when soloing, especially if the Scrapper is Claws/ (1-stacked Followup puts Scrappers ahead instantly @80% Fury and only +16% Damage behind @85 Fury) I'm not sure where you're getting that from? Damage Procs ignore Enhancements and other Buffs; including Fury. Therefore if a Brute deals "X damage" and a Scrapper deals "Y damage" with an attack... and both slot the same damage proc... then all that will do is raise each of their damage by exactly the same amount (e.g. You just end up with "X+ProcDamage" and "Y+ProcDamage". ProcDamage itself remains constant regardless of Buffs or Fury - the only thing that would affect it is resistance buffs/debuffs on your target) If your argument is that "Brutes tend to perform better with their attacks 6-slotted with damage procs"... then that'd be a fair statement; but the reason for this is that Brutes gain proportionally less benefit from +Damage Enhancement whenever they run at high Fury; and Scrappers have a much higher base damage modifier (which confirms my earlier statement that a large part of the power of Scrappers comes by way of their high damage modifier). However slotting attacks entirely with Damage Procs also requires ignoring +ACCURACY Enhancement; which requires substaintial concessions elsewhere in your build for sufficient +ToHit buffs or +GlobalAccuracy set bonuses to let you reliably hit your target with all of those procs. Now you're just messing with me. Surely there is no way in hell that any build is consistently averaging "50% Crit rate"??!? As far as I'm aware, the highest Crit Chance you could conceivably reach is with a few specific T9 attacks vs LTs+ and a SSS ATO (+21%) plus a Critical Strikes ATO Proc (+50%) for 71% chance for that single attack to crit. Aside from that, you could maybe fit an additional low-Arcanatime attack into the same Critical Strike Proc buff window (+16%+50% = maximum 66% chance for this second attack to crit), depending on what your T9's 'Animation Time Before Effect' value is. However the SSS Proc itself has a maximum 90% chance to activate even under perfect conditions, so in reality you'd instead be looking at an average of +63.9% and +59.4% crit chance at *best*. Then the proc-triggering attack itself along with any other attacks in the chain would have at most +16% chance to crit. Therefore even with a hypothetical 3-attack chain, you'd be looking at an *extremely* best case average crit rate of 46.4%. As I understand it, even in today's meta builds will have a bare minimum of 4 attacks in their chain; and likely closer to 6+. Perhaps you might get the average Crit Rate up sufficiently if you somehow managed to squeeze in another additional low-Arcanatime attack into the Critical Strike Proc buff window...? Maybe?? But even then, I suspect that hitting the maximum 90% Proc activation rate on SSS is often... dubious. In practice, any given Scrapper's effective average crit chance should be far, FAR lower than that, because it is extremely difficult to cap the SSS Proc's activation rate in a fast-base-recharge attack (at least without enough Global Recharge that your ears are bleeding and/or the first 10 seconds of an Ageless Epiphany Destiny running). Which means that you have to choose between either using a short attack chain with a lower chance for the SSS Proc to activate; or a long attack chain with a higher chance for the SSS Proc to activate. (As RL examples from my own toon stable, I've a Katana Scrapper with a 4-attack chain that has a 32.9% chance for the Proc to activate; and an EnergyMelee Scrapper with a 6-attack chain that has an 85.2% chance for the Proc to activate...)

True, but in this case it's not a binary 1/0 thing - the get-knocked-on-my-ass-and-stand-back-up-again animation refreshes every time a knockdown occurs; and you'll inevitibly encounter situations where no extra procs kick in during that animation time and a foe manages to fully stand back up again... but the next chance to perform a knockdown isn't due to occur for another X seconds. So "less frequent but more likely" actually ends up being more spikey/unreliable versus "more frequent but less likely".

/jranger I literally posted the comparative numbers earlier in this thread. Purely with SOs alone and a basic (non ATO) crit rate, attack-for-attack Brutes will draw equal at ~80% ~65% Fury. With any more damage buffage than that (Build Up, Against All Odds, Firey Embrace, Set Bonuses, Musculature Alpha, Teammate Buffs, etc.) or lower Fury, Scrappers pull ahead. If you believe that I'm erring here (always possible!) then please show me the math.

I've been that character a few times. An utterly Indestructible Chain-Footstomping Inv/SS Tanker who consistently takes point, leaping from spawn to spawn to quickly bunch up a aggro-cap's worth of foes without any corner pulling shenanighans. A Sonic/Elec Defender who is quietly keeping everyone at the Damage resistance cap, draining all the Foes dry of Endurance and holding Bosses, and can stack enough Mez protection to overcome Ghost Widow's hold. An Illusion/Empath Controller with Perma-Phantom-Army and Powerboosted Fortitides who is keeping Andrenaline Boost on the Blaster so that they can ignore their Nuke crash, and is also somehow finding the time to chain cast confuse on all the tough bosses.... etc. etc. I've also been the idiot everyone loved to hate. A Human/Dwarf bi-form Peacebringer whose number one priority was to go toe-to-toe with and mercliessly obliterate any and all Void/Quantum mobs and Shadow Cysts that dared to oppose them. A /traps MM who loved running in to toebomb every big spawn with Trip Mine (long before you could shove pets out of the way). And best of all... a Fire/Ice/Fire Blaster that had one gear ("Top!") and tended to completely ignore whatever pace the rest of the team were trying to set and was specifically built with 'Rise of the Pheonix' as part of their attack chain.

Mine's EM/Rad/Soul. It was originally built on my alt account as a farming companion to my Bot/Kin MM... but it's very nice by itself. Extremely powerful ST attack chain, with decent AoE in Whirling Hands plus the utter AoE insanity that is Ground Zero. Hardcapped resistances, decent MaxHP and silly amounts of +Absorb, Regeneration, Recovery and Self-Healing Procs. Near-Perma-Hasten with a saturated Beta Decay, plus two Survivability buttons which can push it to the Defence Softcap for a short duration (Shadow Meld and Barrier Core Epiphany) for whenever Beta Decay isn't quite good enough by itself. And finally, Meltdown as a "Solo Berserker Mode" option. Capable of Stealthing Missions and good movement options with both Super Speed and Super Jump. Scrapper - EM - RA (Moonbeam).mbd

Best I've played (for different reasons) have been Kat/Regen and Kat/Bio. Bio's Environmental Modification buffs your defence to practically everything except Melee/Lethal; which is in turn covered by Divine Avalanche. Obvious Synergy! The -res debuffs from Evolving Armor also stacks nicely with all the Achilles' Heel and Fury of the Gladiator Procs which Katana can slot in abundance; and the -regen debuffs don't hurt vs AVs. Regen has tons of flat mitigation, but very little scaling mitigation outside of Moment of Glory. So it gains a *lot* of survivability from softcapped defence, and you really don't lose much performance from the rest of your build by doing so if you factor in keeping up a single stack of Divine Avalanche (double stacking is sitll useful on Incarnate trials or vs -Defense debuffs)

Generally I'm chasing personal +Defence% instead of +Recharge% on Bots/ and also want to squeeze in all the +Def and +res Pet IOs I can to the main pet powers, so my defaults look like this: Level 1: Battle Drones (A) Blood Mandate - Acc/Dam: Level 50+5 (*) Blood Mandate - Dam: Level 50+5 (*) Blood Mandate - Acc/Dam/End: Level 50+5 (*) Call to Arms: Defence Bonus for Pets)- Attuned (*) Edict of the Master: Defence Bonus for Pets) - Attuned (*) Explosive Strike: Chance for Smashing Damage - Attuned Level 12: Protector Bots (A) Blood Mandate - Acc/Dam: Level 50+5 (*) Blood Mandate - Dam: Level 50+5 (*) Blood Mandate - Acc/Dam/End: Level 50+5 (*) Cytoskeleton Exposure (+Defence/EndRed HO): Level 50+3 (*) Common Crafted Defence IO: Level 50+5 (*) Expedient Reinforcement: Resistance Bonus for Pets) - Attuned Level 22: Assault Bot (A) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Acc/Dam: Level 50 (*) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Dam: Level 50 (*) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Acc/Dam/End Level 50 (*) Superior Mark of Supremacy - End/Pet +AoE Resistance and Regen Aura: Level 50 (*) Sovereign Right: Resistance Bonus for Pets) - Attuned (*) Sudden Acceleration: Knockback to Knockdown - Attuned That's all the useful procs plus ~60% Accuracy, capped Damage and reasonable levels of Endurance Reduction. (I don't like the Command of the Mastermind set at all - the unique is largely worthless and for Bots/ even moreso! Assbot still needs a KB>KD IO in order for their swarm missiles to behave itself; but that's the only case of actual KB these days. Battle Drones make decent use of the Explosive Strike damage Proc)

@Devs: Posts like this one are precisely why we need more icon options for forum likes. I'm thinking "Gold Star with Lollipop" - for all the times whenever a 5 year old wanders in with a Red Crayon and proceeds to patiently explain everything to all the silly grups. (Bonus points because of the military connotations of the username and the fact that the crayon is BLOOD red...)

This is exactly the case. The largest part of the power of Scrappers comes by way of their high damage modifier; which is baked in from level 1 and drastically raises the base damage of Scrapper attacks. To bring it back to the Brute comparison that the OP was making... at extremely-low-levels, a Scrapper with no Enhancements deals decent damage compared to a Brute by dint of their modifier alone as per my earlier post. Scrapper "Hack" Base damage including Crits vs LTs+ (+10%) = 112.9 versus Brute "Hack" Base damage = 68.4 Therefore only +65% Damage (a hair under 33 Fury) is required for a Brute to equal the Scrapper without enhancements being factored in at all. So if you're too low to use any damage enhancements; then a Brute that can maintain high fury will pull noticably ahead of a Scrapper. ...but at that level it is common to encounter endurance and survivability issues that prevent you from maintaining high Fury in the first place. And that is only the *extreme* early game. After only a few short hours of playing (levels ~17-22+) the same Scrapper and Brute will typically start slotting the equivalent of a few Damage SOs into their attacks. Scrapper "Hack" 3-slotted with +3 SOs including Crits vs LTs+ (+10%) = 222.6 In order for a Brute to hit/exceed that under the same conditions, they'd require roughly +130% Damage (65 Fury). So as long as you're playing with SOs/Common Crafted IOs then Scrappers appear to be just fine compared to Brutes (and Tanks and Stalkers too; pre-IO-sets). I appreciate that it can be tempting for certain people to not slot any SO/Common Crafted enhancements until level ~27. But at the other end of the scale are the guys who run the "Death from Below" trial over and over and over. I imagine most of us sit somewhere in between. Personally I never bothered with TOs even on live, and tend to use DOs and SOs between levels 12-22 ish; then swap to Common Crafted IOs as placeholders until I can start to slot all the various Attuned and +3 Set IOs in. Also; just in case anyone who is unfamiliar with Scrapper/Tank/Brute/Stalker damage mechanics happens to have bothered reading this far through the thread (kudos!):

And then came the Fury nerfs. ATOs were a much later thing - by the time they arrived Brutes and Scrappers were largely on par because Tankers were still punching like wet noodles and Brutes filled the "hardier than a scrapper but slightly less damage" role. And then came the Tank Damage buffs. These days a Brutes niche is pretty much soloing dedicated Farming maps (whenever there's no Tanker with AoEs available + a Kinetic....) which is a very far cry from circa issues 6-10. These days? Perhaps vs Stalkers but definitely not vs Brutes.

Not a TF, but an Ouroboros Arc. https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Mender_Lazarus#The_5th_Column_Overthrow (A very guilty pleasure - SO MANY NAZIS to "arrest with prejudice" after a hard day at work...)

Strangely enough, it was actually the opposite experience for me on my first Scrapper. At the time /Regen was unique to Blueside, Stamina needed a power pool pick and level 20; and no other DPS ATs existed with access to a buff like Quick Recovery. By comparison to other ATs I'd played, my little Katana/Regen Scrapper just DID NOT STOP. At full pelt they could go for days, essentially a cross between an energiser bunny and a woodchipper; and they could switch into "turtle mode" with a single button press (Divine Avalanche). By comparison, other toons managed maybe one attack chain before their Blue bar bottomed out and they were reduced to using Brawl; and they tended to faceplant if a single red-conning LT so much as glanced at them. After they hit 50, that Scrapper still took pride of place on my character list for a long time... until Inventions hit + other sorts of toons became able to deal better damage whilst hitting the defence softcap solo. However they still got pulled out any time the SG ran any Malta, Carnie or Shadow Shard missions; and eventually the introduction of more damage and -res procs helped them raise their head again - not top of the pack, but a respectable "upper middle tier". My Controllers on the other hand certainly experienced exactly what you're talking about here. I'd an Illusion/Empath that was SOOOO slow to level up... even with Deceive and Phantom Wounds doing most of the heavy lifting. However once at 50 + IOed they were easily one of the best toons I've ever rolled up prior to Incarnate Abilities; with Perma-PA, Perma-Adrenaline boost, almost Perma Auras and Power Boosted Fortitudes.

The OP specifically referenced Scrapper damage in comparison to Brutes rather than Stalkers or non-melee ATs. Presumably this is because Brutes and Scrappers have identical powerset and are both generally seen as "melee DPS" ATs. The rebuttal I made was that Scrapper Damage compares favourably to Brutes even without Crits due to the Scrapper AT's substantially higher base damage modifier. I think it's fair to state that between those two ATs; Brutes have a higher survivability peak (Damage Resistance and Maximum HP); and Scrappers have a higher damage output peak (raw red numbers) and that when soloing at lower levels, Scrappers that can self-buff their damage output will pull ahead. The Damage per Animation of Scrapper attacks in comparison to Blasters, Sentinels, Stalkers, etc. is an entirely different conversation, and every point made against Scrappers there will apply to Brutes as well; since they share common animation times and powersets. That said, I have an old DPA spreadsheet dated 2011 in which a Fire/Shield Scrapper comfortably places at the top of the ST damage charts... and ten years later (2021 was when I last properly bothered mathing it) a lowly solo Katana/Regen could push >340 DPA when procced-up with an optimised attack chain without ATOs or Build Up running; and Energy Melee could comfortably push >420 DPA under the same circumstances. Yes, ATOs will certainly increase Scrapper damage; but unless things have changed drastically in the last few patches they will be adding at *most* roughly an extra attack's worth of damage onto your attack chain every ~10 seconds (The Superior CS Proc grants +50% crit rate activation for 3.25 seconds, which includes the animation time of the activating ability. Given most scrapper powerset activation times, you can typically get 1-2 attacks off at most with that buff applied to them. However hitting the 90% activation rate cap for the CS proc is only possible when you slot it into a power with >12s base recharge; and *most* of those have longer activation times. Best-case you might fit a lower-DPA 1.188s or 1.32s activation time power in, followed by something slower and heavier...) There's also an argument that other ATs (Stalkers, for example) rely much more on their ATOs for DPA than Scrappers do!

If you haven't already, I'd strongly recommend setting up Numpad text file binds for targeting, commanding and buffing your henchmen individually. Personally I've used largely the same bind/macro setup for my MMs since issue6, and they look something like this (example given is for Robots): The upshot is that I can tap NumpadEnter to switch between "select my teammates" mode and "select my henchmen" mode. When in team select mode, tapping numpad1 through numpad8 individually targets/selects each of my current team members. When in henchmen select mode, tapping numpad1 through numpad6 individually targets/selects my henchmen, and numpad 7/8 issue them the Attack/Follow commands. The numpad9 and numpad "." are always GOTO and STAY commands (for either the selected henchman or all henchmen) and numpad+ and numpad- always activate the equip and upgrade abilities. That leaves the numpad "0", "/" and "*" keys for other regularly-used ally-targeted buffs/heals; such as Fortitude, Clear Mind and Heal Other; and they can be applied to whatever individual henchmen/ally you wish with just two button presses. I typically also bind the "B" key to Follow/Defensive [Bodyguard], the "G" Key to [AGgressive] and the "H" key to Follow/Passive [Heel]. The "V" key is a mixture of Defensive and Aggressive [Variable] - typically 1-2 tougher henchmen = aggressive, the rest = defensive; AKA "lazy autopilot mode". After all that, the only pet commands I need on the actual power tray is an "Attack my current target" override command; plus the summons themselves.

I... honestly think there's far too much emphasis being put on the Scrapper Critical Hit mechanic here. Crits are not anywhere near as important to Scrapper Damage Output as Fury is to a Brute's. The higher Scrapper base damage modifier produces decent results by itself, Crits are just icing on the cake. Functional Example: Broadsword ability "Hack": === SCRAPPER DAMAGE, WITH VARIOUS CRIT CHANCES AND/OR ATOs === === BRUTE DAMAGE, AT VARIOUS FURY LEVELS === =================================================== Breakpoints where Brute performance begins to exceed Scrapper performance: =================================================== So in a typical situation, with just SOs and Basic Inherent Critical hits on non-T9 attacks versus non-negligible foes (LTs+), Brutes typically need to be operating at ~65 Fury to draw level with Scrapper average damage numbers. Whenever you factor in additional damage buffs (like Build Up, Follow Up, AAO, Set Bonuses, Teammate Buffs and/or Alpha Slots); Scrappers pull *way* ahead - realistically the only time Brutes compare favourably is at very high fury levels (~80+) whenever the Scrapper is lacking any of their ATOs and isn't fighting enemy ranks above minion. Whenever you also include ATOs (even just the SSS one), things get silly very quickly... but even without them a Brute will operate on an even keel *at best* unless the Scrapper isn't getting any noteworthy +Damage% buffs or -Resistance% debuffs.

Easy. Recognise that Scrappers =/= Brutes. Brutes thrive whenever they're constantly being punched in the face by everything or constantly punching everything in the face. That's how they build Fury, and maintain the high damagemuffins. Brutes also taunt anything they attack, causing foes to blindly focus on them. Scrappers thrive whenever they're running from boss to boss, tapping Build Up then "arresting" them so fast and hard that they leave bits of them splattered all over the floor/walls/ceiling/neighbouring buildings. They don't need to build and maintain Fury, they can get upset by a foe simply looking at them funny. Scrappers also tend to focus blindly on attacking anything that taunts them. Brutes generally trend towards performing best vs +0/8, Scrappers towards +4/0. Sure, there are exceptions like Spines/ Scrappers and /FA Brutes... but by and large one is a slaughtering boss and the other is a boss slaughterer. They're both capable soloers, but Scrappers have better "spike damage" but lower damage resistance and maximum health caps - so they're better at skirmishing with a few tough foes and killing them off quickly rather than at soaking the aggro of the entire map.

Thug Enforcer Maneuvers and Protector Bot Bubbles add substantial amounts of Defence; and the 'Bot Bubbles will buff the MM. (Bots *used to* buff other pets as well... unfortunately no longer, but they now apply almost instantly and the value is a good bit higher: ~22% Def to everything when slotted up) Generally I find Bots easiest to hit Softcap - technically with Incarnate slots them hitting 40-45% defence doesn't even require any powers from your secondary at all. They also have decent self-healing potential between the Protector Bots and the Repair Drone. Bot Damage Resistances are definitely a bit of a mixed batch though (Lethal is OK, but Cold and Psionic are very situational) so if you're fighting anything that manages to get through all that defence they'll tend to get one-shot rather than chipped to death. The likes of Demons have a far better spread of Damage Resistances; especially with the LT pet's "Ember Shield" buff... but you'll definitely need to strongly leverage your secondary to softcap their defence. For general hardiness without factoring in secondary, I'd go with something like Bots > Thugs/Mercs > Demons/Beasts > Necro > Ninjas. Bots have sky-high defence and self-healing. Thugs have good defense and resistance and Gang War, Mercs have good resistance and self-healing and Serum; Demons/Beasts have decent resistance and self-healing. Necro has debuffs and limited self-healing. Ninjas have... caltrops and smoke bombs and halitosis? (OK, dig at the Katana Cosplay brigade aside: They get 13.5% Defence to Melee/Ranged and 18% to AoE, plus a weak self-heal on a 45s timer. Now compare that with Necro's much quicker self-healing, at least half-a-softcap's worth of ToHit debuffs plus Soul Extraction and a semi-decent spread of Damage Resistances.) EDIT: also - Base Numbers for Mercs: Soldier/Medic/Spec Ops = 26.145% Damage Resistance (Smashing, Lethal) Commando = the above plus +6.549% Damage Resistance (Fire, Cold, Toxic)

Aye I suspected 100% or more is treated as "guaranteed"... but we've seen cases in the past where anything over a 'cap' acts as a buffer vs reductions/debuffs/etc. (Which I suppose is exactly what's happening here; since the ReduceIfKD flag is coded as a reduction. Hopefully that's the only negative value that ever gets applied against PowerChanceMod!) So now that we've pinned down more of the mechanics... checking the various boost effects; I'm still unsure why I wasn't observing any noticable difference in slotting Bonfire with an Overwhelming Force proc versus a Sudden Acceleration proc. Both should trigger the same ReduceIfKD behaviour resulting in the same base KD effect in Bonfire/Repel/Whirlwind/etc... but there should also have been an *additional* "2.5PPM chance for KD" occurring with the OF Proc. My PPM calculator suggests that with the new 15ft Radius of Epic Pool Bonfire's Pseudopet; the OF Proc ought to have resulted in my MM gaining an extra 15.5% chance for a KD to actually kick in upon casting of Bonfire + every 10s thereafter; and then throwing in a Ragnarok 'Chance for KD' Proc (3.5PPM) should have likewise resulted in an extra 21.71% chance for additional floppery. But in reality I wasn't seeing any noteworthy increase in KDs occurring at all. (OK, so at the time of testing there'd only have been 3 opportunities for any additional KDs to occur during Bonfire's then-30-second duration... but I'd at least have expect to have consistently observed a few more foes getting immediately knocked on their posteriors upon casting! Weird.) Annihilation "Chance for -res" procs are definitely kicking in however; so I'm guessing this behaviour is a side effect of the way all that ReduceIfKD fudgery combines with regular "KD PPM" activations.

Which would imply very little has actually changed in terms of the average number of times a foe will find itself knocked on its back over the duration of a bonfire patch... which is in line with my testing! 🍻 It also helps explain some of the disgruntled Fire Controller/Dominator comments we've been seeing here since there'd now be a halved chance for Bonfire to immediately KD a group of Foes upon casting (albeit a much better chance for it to snag a foe that enters the patch for less than 2 seconds!). However 1 second after that initial spike it immediately evens out; and if anything the Knockdown rate over time has become a bit less streaky. Factoring in the Activation Rate definitely looks like what I was missing above; since Whirlwind and Repel both have an activation rate of 0.5s to Bonfire's 1s. That also suggests the patch might technically be a buff to Bonfire's KB rate if you're not slotting it with a KB>KD IO... (140% KB chance every 2s vs 120% KB chance every 1s?) ...I'm still annoyed about the reduced radius in the Epic Pool version of Bonfire, but at least they're reverting the duration nerf (hurrah!) and testing has proven that I can get largely the same effect as before by simply casting Fireball (albeit slotted with Ragnarok and Superior Frozen Blast Procs...) more often! 🤣

Top right of CoD --> "Switch to Alpha Data". That Database is dated April 2023 and the tag is still present.

Yeah there's something else going on that we're not seeing, like perhaps a minimum % chance floor. According to CoD; Repel and Whirlwind both have "110% chance to Knockback" compared to Bonfire's "120% chance to Knockback". So if the KB>KD IOs are really applying a flat -100% reduction to the chance value then Bonfire's would be reduced to 20% and Repel to 10%. However in reality after you slot a KB>KD IO into the power they're both roughly equal in how often they actually Knock a critter over! ( I've only tested Repel and Whirlwind on a few farming missions on Brainstorm; but they are definitely not half as effective as Bonfire. Each applied hundreds of KDs over the course of each asteroid map; and as far as I could see the variance really just came down to how tightly mobs were clustered...)

To be fair, Speed Boost is a tiny, tiny part of a /Kin MMs' romping great engine of buffstruction. Unlike all those silly players with their annoying ideas and opinions and free will, your henchmen will ALWAYS respond properly to a Passive/GoTo order to perfectly position them for Fulcrum Shift etc. and they never complain in /local about you making them run too fast, hit too hard or recover endurance too quickly.

Personally I tend to go Burst. Whenever you want -regen it tends to be for a tough single target; and Bots can power through hordes of underlings before you'd notice any benefit from it. Photon Grenade deals decent enough DPA, but the Patron/Epic pool AoEs are better.

Would be useful to see the build here. Trip Mine plus Assault Bot Swarm Missiles can absolutely melt entire maps. These days the AssBot is also your only pet that needs a KB>HD IO, after that just slow-slot Caltrops to keep most foes from fleeing out of the patches.