Bill Z Bubba

I started at 16. Few ... decades back.

How dare you.... I'm old enough to drive in my heart!

I'm tryin to do my part. I sell anything white or yellow to the vendor in my base.

That would be quite rude to the people that enjoy being spanked.

I like to give in to the scrapperlock. It doesn't matter what archetype I'm playing at the time. Hell, I like to give in to it in every facet of my existence, come to think of it.

Global channel? Removed. LFG channel, only viewed if I'm bored. Broadcast stuff I don't wanna see? Get global name and gignore. People can not be reasoned out of beliefs they didn't reason themselves into and I'm far too old to give any of them a single moment's thought in a game I play. I don't need extra code added for something I can so easily control myself. But we'll all choose our own path on that.

I am not even remotely attempting to do so. Fury is awesome up to a point. After that point, it obviously becomes meaningless. I go back to my earlier statement: Every point of effort that a brute has to spend to stay on par with the tank on the mitigation front, the tank gets to use to catch up, and Due To The Much Larger Disparity of mitigation to damage, surpass the brute. I know folks will continue to insist that claws and sr are edge cases but those people are wrong. They're nothing more than a damage set and a mitigation set. I would have the exact same results with a mace/shield - shield/mace or a stone/inv - inv/stone setup or whatever.

That really shouldn't be even remotely necessary. Any +damage buff benefits the tank more. Any +mitigation buff benefits the tank more. It doesn't matter what powerset combo is in use. It doesn't matter if I create three identical SO only builds. The underlying math doesn't change.

100% truth.

New tank SR/Claws build, posted earlier, still superior in mitigation in EVERY way to the brute or scrapper builds also posted earlier: Mission Sim Round 1: 1: 400 2: 393 3: 429 4: 406 5: 382 6: 383 7: 419 8: 370 9: 390 10: 361 Average: 393 Faster than the scrapper. But yall wanna keep telling me that this is ok. That balance doesn't matter. @Captain Powerhouse What say you? Edit: Side note: I didn't even use the extra AoEs from the PPP. They actually slowed me down. These 10 runs were only using claws attacks.

@modest I didn't ask for your builds. I asked for data similar to what I have put forth so far.

Ok. Fine. Show me the testing where these exact builds are utilized across all three ATs for their times as I have shown for claws/sr. I've been hoping others would hop in for this whole thread.

Irrelevant. Get the SR/Kat tank to those same mitigation values and see how much more +damage you can get into the build.

No, I'm not. I did it in mids and it wouldn't be a build I'd play because it's not even at the regular defense softcap.

I want to go farther than that. Set brute base mitigation values AND base HP to be 85% tank values and lower brute mitigation caps to 85% as well.

I posted my new tank build, still well over regualr softcap and damn near incarnate softcap with vastly more +damage and more aoe attacks. Please take a look as you can. I'm about to start the 10 run testing with said new build.

Slot the brute AT IO for a chance for +fury into whatever attack you use often. You'll be sitting in the upper 90% on fury which means you'll be cranking out damage at +180%. This is thing of beauty, fully stop. Play what feels good to you. Play what's fun for you. Ignore this number crunchin crap unless you LIKE the number crunchin crap.

Why, yes, I am currently running Black Scorpion's arc on live so that I can respec my sr/claws tank into the above build and rerun 10 maps of that test arc. For the record, the brute with the identical slotting as above? Not even regular softcapped:

Here's a quick new SR/Claws tank build. http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/download.php?uc=1529&c=716&a=1432&f=HEX&dc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dit: Wait... kismet +6% ain't global? The power has to be on for it to function? Whatever. Throw a slow resist or whatever in there. Or take taunt.

Made doubly amusing since my *main* is the scrapper, seconded by the tank. I'm trying to determine why the brute exists.

It's too bad that the brute isn't sitting at 50%. At the VERY least I get to drop combat jumping and add in assault. Will probably be able to drop energy mastery and add in pyre mastery for more aoe.

But I want to hit this specifically. What happens if you build an elec/rad tank? All that extra effort you spent getting to those caps on the brute could instead be spent on increasing your damage output. Edit: Let me put this another way. What happens to my SR tank's damage output when I build it to specifically to match the SR brute's current mitigation values? That leaves a WHOLE lotta build room to increase his kill speed.

LOL. I can't count the number of times I've been called an edge case. Yes, AND a head case but that's a different story.

And I don't disagree with this statement at all. But there's no reason not to fix broken shit.

Why not calculate in the average up time of buildup for both? Mids is showing 80% for both and I just verified that in game. And the value for tank followup is higher than brute followup as per mids. 35.29 vs 30. Mids is not accurate. In game monitor shows 30% for both tank and brute. Regardless, but both followup and build up benefit the tank more due to the tank's higher base damage mod, as you've shown.