Bill Z Bubba

It was a straight copy with minor adjustments for the AT IOs. I assume granite is like that on the tank build because he's capped anyway. I didn't put any thought into it. Good catch on the +5ing. Overwhleming Force 6 slot? No clue. Knock the enemy down in case they don't get held maybe? Mids says that also enhances damage. removing it drops it from 97.09% to 85.71% after ED.

Yea, even the tweaked tank build that wins out on the map clearing test still has worse times against pylons than the brute.

No clue what to tell ya. It's probably somethin obvious I'm missing. Everything is turned off except Stone Skin, Hasten, Granite, Rooted and Maneuvers. He doesn't even have the Tank +resist AT IO slotted. Just the 1st 5 from the set in Whirling Axe. Accolades are off. Temp Powers are off. PvE Mode set. Even removing the accolades completely instead of just turning them off isn't changing the totals. Went ahead and removed them from the build completely just to make sure. Here's the brute, accolades aren't even selected. Edit: Here's the data chunks. http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/download.php?uc=1583&c=720&a=1440&f=HEX&dc=78DA7D94C94F535114C6EF6B5F8557E6A1CC2D94029D6C69059C95A82089D2840474679A275CA0B1B6CDEB4BC4A58938AC8DAE1C172EDCF8E73832EACE044151176EEAE19D2F5052E24DC88F7EE77CE79C3BB4898591CAB763778685527921ADE7F3C9293D73431A8E843E979A16B42AC60C29335D23B77463B68C3EB771427244CECA4C5E4627CD6C4626CF1937B3463342099996327A5E37CD344516A4704E64B3E9E8644ECA997AEBDF29CAC8650D533753D94C8D258D4B7D461AF9F954AECAFA7C3135376FA63273F5A3B9D474745437CCF96442CF9BD2B8DD42631CA7BFCF9AC02A28C2A50811D7844D23FA35B1B11713C24D88AB62893445E17C6510F9438A155BA6989DF3557B87DD8A39DDCC4A0FD8C9ACEE62AE90C7C11E87E3AE6AD5A95E64D6DE03EF33EB1F800F99ABE42DE359D432F46B44BF46F46B42BF26F4DB228F863D69799B55C747775201AD4263AD9BB42AECB32A2C2C6F0BF8830AD4E0CC6A5EDB38F6867DEB14AB43AC0EE7D986F3DCA65803E66D7867B7F2DBDE333B3E801F999E4FCC5E9AC385D95C4BDCC34F5A33B4E610CFF4856AB7A26F2BFA7AD0F727C5DA71C6ED7E9ED713607605C11018E61EDE45E69AC657BF53D71DE3BA5EDCFB578A75F27E1C9DDB3CAFF732D3875C1F727D2E7E233DD64CAAF845DE6ECCD47D827BF79C044F31FB4E83677896BE61AEFD9BBCBDF0F63EE5B7E07F063E075F30832FC157CC475422006F6089EB059799A11570155C6346D6998F096178C3119EED7014EC0763CC489C678EFC653E216F14DEE811CEE91F0007C12166FC28788CBD7574DF31BCC518EE368EBBED504BBFA3C11D8DF30BA1E278819688152B1176C44BB2064A94C11265BCA492262654B4264DC1F745ABDDFD5D286C38777F3F8402CFE69EE65036F8AC552F7885F77BE82ABF9F4397F8FD949F25BA55F1BDB85E80EB6DED6936E59B6A69E59B4CE71F7E0785FDEB9AD3DA8410FB027A917AFDC08CFFAF89033DFF00471B2ADE http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/download.php?uc=1439&c=664&a=1328&f=HEX&dc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

Is that recent? I'd be curious to see how many tanks were made/played since the buffs vs brutes.

No AT is useless. Devs could provide this info. I know that I have a lot more tanks now than before the buff and I know many in game in the same boat. Yes, that would be bizarre and entirely beside the point. This... I kind of already showed. My new SR/Tank build not only continues to have considerably higher mitigation values in all areas than the brute but clears the test map faster using the same attack chains of followup, focus, slash, repeat for ST and followup, focus, spin, shockwave, repeat for AOE. As mentioned by others, of course, in the case of claws, with consistently double stacked followup on top of the higher base AT damage mod, that kinda makes sense. The argument others are making is that this won't be true for the attack sets that use buildup. A claim I find highly questionable considering how often buildup is available in high end builds and that it, too, will provide more benefit for the tank's higher base dam mod.

But it is something I have to add into the mix ... is the brute's maximum damage capability something that can consistently be leveraged in a way so that it causes me no more mental quandaries than I have when comparing my scrapper and my tank? See, yall, I went down this road before way back before the snap shortly after the claws overhaul that BAB and Castle did. In the end, before the introduction of the AT IOs drastically improving scrapper damage, brute claws output was so close to scrapper claws output, that the brute's extra mitigation meant there was no reason to ever build a claws/sr scrapper. The brute was just plain overall superior. So the original Bill Z Bubba was shoved off to another server and he was rebuilt fully as a brute. I'm running into the same situation now between tanks and brutes, again because of developer buffs. Edit2: Bill Z Bubba is a scrapper again... just as a silly side note.

Counter-argument to myself for later concepts: I am INcapable of taking a brute build maximized for extreme damage output and turning that into a tank that would come anywhere close on damage output. But it would definitely trash the brute on the mitigation side.

Yes, this is absolutely true, just like an SR tank can softcap with SOs. But I'm sure my brother wouldn't want to horrifically gimp his build with the slotting you're showing there. I didn't state that the brute can't hit the SL damres cap, I stated that with my brother's slotting from his tank copied to the brute build, it simply didn't. It would absolutely be simple to correct but something would have to be taken from somewhere else to get it there and WAY more than likely would lessen the build's offensive output. Here's the side by side. Tank, obviously, on the left. Again, absolutely true but I wouldn't want to play that brute. But leading into your next point... Again, true. I build each character to suit my scrapperlock play-style tempered by the archetype and powerset combo in question. Unfortunately, will all those truths, the original complaint stands. If I build a brute to maximize its mitigation potential, and then build a tank with the same and reversed powersets to match the brute's exact mitigation values, I'm left with a whole lotta crap to boost the tank's offense that the brute simply didn't have to play with. This does absolutely still leave the brute cruising along with equal mitigation AND 180-190% damage buff but with a lower AT damage mod that the tank's extra build wealth can utilize with its higher AT damage mod. More available slots means more set bonuses. More bonuses means better performance. My argument is that it appears, to me so far, until I either see for myself that I'm wrong or someone can get through my stubborn assed scrapperlocked skull, that I can take ANYONE's capped to the walls brute build, and turn it into a tank with identical mitigation that's better offensively and this is due to the recent buffs.

Except no matter how I try I can't come up with a NON edge case combo. Someone is going to naysay the comparison for some reason. Helped my brother with his stone/axe build this morning and on a lark built it identically in mids as a brute. The brute ends up not even being hardcapped on SL damres but in the end probably wins out because fury allows the combo to ignore the -damage from granite while still being close enough to the mitigation caps. But we ALL know stone armor is its own freakish edge case.

I am quite ready to accept this.

The problem with running identical builds across multiple ATs is that it completely misses the point. The caps are the caps. If the tank is able to hit those caps with far less IO and power choice expenditure than the brute and then utilize that excess for damage output, it surpasses the brute. I don't know how else to restate this. Yes, it's absolutely true that the brute (or the scrapper or the stalker) doesn't NEED to hit those caps to steamroll over 95% of the game's content, it still leaves the tank in a numerically superior situation over the brute regardless of the combo, especially when solo. Again though, this statement more than likely fails to remain true if the brute has a pocket kinetic or a tray full of huge reds but that just doesn't happen on the regular. And once upon a time I had some beautiful attack chain spreadsheets that let me plug any value of +damage but those died with the original shutdown so I can't even say for sure that a claws tank at the damage cap will surpass a claws brute at the cap. Everything I'm seeing and saying is based off of solo play.

Also... just cuz of your forum pic... BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! yes... this is an actual tattoo on my body.

You're going to dish out far more damage with a dark/savage tank than you will that dark/nature corruptor. You'll be silly safe with either. The real question is whether you want to sit at range and be safe/buff the team or dive into the shit and keep the team safe that way. I think both would be amusing. But really, that last point, which do YOU think you'd have more fun with? That's the only thing that's important.

Well... it's gonna have crazy good aoe output. Mids is showing, with arcanatime accounted for, that Maiming Slash is almost double the DPA of Savage Strike. I don't consider anything in rad armor skippable. Even the T9 is awesome because it doesn't have a real crash. Savage Leap is just fun as hell.

On the scrapper, they were all over the place. But for the brute and tank, not really. Every now and then one would high-tail it but a quick taunt usually got them back. Seriously making me consider swapping afterburner for confront on the scrapper.

I started at 16. Few ... decades back.

How dare you.... I'm old enough to drive in my heart!

I'm tryin to do my part. I sell anything white or yellow to the vendor in my base.

That would be quite rude to the people that enjoy being spanked.

I like to give in to the scrapperlock. It doesn't matter what archetype I'm playing at the time. Hell, I like to give in to it in every facet of my existence, come to think of it.

Global channel? Removed. LFG channel, only viewed if I'm bored. Broadcast stuff I don't wanna see? Get global name and gignore. People can not be reasoned out of beliefs they didn't reason themselves into and I'm far too old to give any of them a single moment's thought in a game I play. I don't need extra code added for something I can so easily control myself. But we'll all choose our own path on that.

I am not even remotely attempting to do so. Fury is awesome up to a point. After that point, it obviously becomes meaningless. I go back to my earlier statement: Every point of effort that a brute has to spend to stay on par with the tank on the mitigation front, the tank gets to use to catch up, and Due To The Much Larger Disparity of mitigation to damage, surpass the brute. I know folks will continue to insist that claws and sr are edge cases but those people are wrong. They're nothing more than a damage set and a mitigation set. I would have the exact same results with a mace/shield - shield/mace or a stone/inv - inv/stone setup or whatever.

That really shouldn't be even remotely necessary. Any +damage buff benefits the tank more. Any +mitigation buff benefits the tank more. It doesn't matter what powerset combo is in use. It doesn't matter if I create three identical SO only builds. The underlying math doesn't change.

100% truth.

New tank SR/Claws build, posted earlier, still superior in mitigation in EVERY way to the brute or scrapper builds also posted earlier: Mission Sim Round 1: 1: 400 2: 393 3: 429 4: 406 5: 382 6: 383 7: 419 8: 370 9: 390 10: 361 Average: 393 Faster than the scrapper. But yall wanna keep telling me that this is ok. That balance doesn't matter. @Captain Powerhouse What say you? Edit: Side note: I didn't even use the extra AoEs from the PPP. They actually slowed me down. These 10 runs were only using claws attacks.