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Masterminds are an AT that can't enjoy "Scrapperlock" nor can it "roflstomp" missions like other AT... it doesn't make them bad, it literally just requires a playstyle that doesn't often make sense for other ATs. On a team with other ATs that are playing quicker, MMS will feel less useful... but changing the playstyle to match the other ATs is chosing to play in a way that isn't typically suited for MMs. Solo MMs still have to deal damage to complete missions, collect INF/drops, but they have to do it in a different way. As has been pointed out in this thread, and many other places, a MM does its magic via the henchmen (who are not pets), most of which will have a 'negative level penalty' relative to the MM. The henchmen have to be slotted to address the level shift... if you don't believe me, try running a +2 mission (through Ouroboros) on any other AT with "Enhancements have no effect" to get a sense of what the T1 henchmen are facing at even-level content (for the MM)... it gets worse when the MM scales up difficulty levels! With the above in mind, MMs have to consider several different things to maximize their performance (or DPS, if you prefer to think in those terms), listed in roughly the order I would rank them from most important to least (all are important!): The enemies have to be debuffed, to do less damage and to take more damage (via -Def and/or -Res) The henchmen have to be buffed, in order to hit and to do damage The henchmen have to live through fights (in order of usefulness: +Def, +Res, and way behind IMO are +Healing and respawning) Henchmen can also be 'kept alive' via other actions by the MM, in rough order of value (as judged by me): MM attacks, preferably AoE, preferably with a debuff of some kind, to get and keep aggro on the MM MM pets (not henchmen) and pseudopets which will occupy the attention of enemy mob(ile)s during fights. MM effects (Enhancement IOs for defense/resist... don't forget Supremacy also boosts levels shifts for Incarnate content in addition to standard Accuracy and Damage boosts) Provoke (I find this to be almost completely useless in practice, because it requires Accuracy slotting and has such a small target cap... yet many players still recommend it so I include it here) to try to directly keep aggro on the MM. I have a general opinion that MMs simply won't appear to be as useful on typical teams/leagues because of the nature of how the AT completes its goals. I have found MMs to shine in certain team situations: During invasion events: target through henchmen (or pets), as the server-side AI detects valid targets before the client-side can detect them! When a team is getting over-run, pull the henchmen close to the MM and switch to Bodyguard/Defensive mode. I've had MMs survive what would have been a TPK simply by holding fast in tight quarters. Henchmen can be dispatched to attack distant enemies... either ones that are running or against a new spawn if no one else in the group can take the alpha strike/holds (Positron 2 TF is content that demonstrates this pretty well IMO, but it isn't the only content)

As was mentioned, -def isn't part of the equation, but I Spines/Bio is a very team-friendly Stalker IMO, because it offers several AoE options in addition to typical single-target stabby-stabby: DNA Siphon is the real gem, as it plays nicely with %procs in addition to helping the Stalker... and it also grabs aggro Throw Spines is a ranged cone that takes many %procs... it's "only" 10 targets, yet boosting range makes it very helpful, especially when Ripper (a melee cone, don't %proc this!) sends enemies flying backwards I'm not a huge fan of Spine Burst but it does take useful Enhancement Sets. Parasitic Aura is -DMG, which teams should appreciate (if used as an "alpha strike"). Impale is also not a favorite power of mine, but the -Fly and Immobilize effects bring utility. The /Bio defense isn't directly helping the team, but /Bio Stalkers can be very difficult to insta-kill and the secondary has the tools to recover from incoming damage. This has some positives (my opinion!) for teams: If Stealthing/Hiding to a mission objective in a crowded room, a Spines/Bio Stalker can almost always survive and clear any nearby spawn faster than any other AT. The most problematic enemies will be those that have strong resists to the Stalker's damage... TBH, the enemy damage resistances are the most frustrating part of Spines/Bio. If simply grinding through x8 maps, a Spines/Bio Stalker can handle a lot of aggro, and since it can deliver some power AoE "alpha strikes" of its own, they really help to keep the team moving. With the ST attacks, they can switch up to Boss-murder as needed.

Rando comments: The existing choices of Threat sets is poor. There isn't another piece that offers Threat/Accuracy! There are plenty of powers (Presence pool, many Auras) that could really use this type of piece. There are other simple combinations that are not well represented. Try looking for Accuracy/Endurance pieces that can be slotted and boosted to 50+5! There are some, but they are also weirdly rare (IMO) given the large numbers of different sets that exits for certain types of powers.

I always tried to start in Galaxy City, so its "destruction" hit me right in the feels... see also Dark Astoria. In the case of the Incarnate revamp, I mind less, as it sort of explains some of the things you learn along the way, and plus without the 'mist' it is easier to appreciate the map. Lore-wise? After the tutorial, I think only Twinshot's arc goes back there. I can't recall if Dr. Graves links to it.

@TygerDarkstorm made several very good points, especially about knowing when to just let the henchmen go. The only other thing I can think of is to pay attention to the stance of the henchmen. If they are on bodyguard, they ought to be close to you and retaliating only against what strikes you (or each other). It could be that your MM is taking a LOT of damage (especially AoE) and is sloughing much of it off onto the henchmen. If you are dispatching the henchmen willy-nilly, they probably will get split up and get picked off like the minions they are. Robots are slightly less susceptible to this because they are nearly 100% ranged attackers.

I've been looking, but the search-fu is weak with this one. I could be thinking about damage auras: And/or I could have been thinking about pet/pseudopets with %procs. Pure Pseudopet Anecdote: I had been running /Traps with 2x %-Res, but NO slotted accuracy (and using a Debuff Defense set instead of Accurate Debuff Defense, because bonuses). I made a simple change to add Accuracy, and I believe I am seeing more appearances of red triangles than I was before (keep in mind Acid Mortar isn't a great %proc power anyway, but the rest of my build uses the same Annihilation piece, so I am really hoping just for timer resets on the resistance debuff) Level 14: Acid Mortar (A) Undermined Defenses - Defense Debuff: Level 50 (*) Undermined Defenses - Defense Debuff/Recharge: Level 50 (*) Undermined Defenses - Recharge/Endurance: Level 50 (*) Undermined Defenses - Recharge: Level 50 (*) Annihilation - Chance for Res Debuff: Level 50 (*) Achilles' Heel - Chance for Res Debuff: Level 20 (*) Accuracy: Level 50+5

Water Blast is a very good AoE set, but I can't imagine any circumstances where it would be a good Single-Target DPS choice... except by using the AoE against single-targets. Personally: I find Water Jet (enhanced or not) to have been a very disappointing attack on my Water Blaster... such that it's the attack I dropped from the build (at level 50) and never looked back. Also personally: There are only few cases where I consider using %damage on a Blaster's attacks; I have found better returns by slotting attacks for set enhancements (especially Global Recharge, but also +Endurance and Global Endurance Discount) and which inherently boost Damage, Accuracy, Recharge, Endurance Cost to improve DPS beyond what %damage can offer. For most of the Very Rare Offensive sets, I'll usually opt to include a %damage piece in place of the straight Damage (because of ED)...even on fast-recharge powers. The occasions when I will %damage a Blaster attack are usually: Builds where I already have the 5 Enhancement set bonuses (that would otherwise go to waste), AoEs (because, MOAR targets), typically cones, The AoE itself is relatively low damage, The build's primary/secondary itself has a lot of damage-over-time (or a delayed effect) in the chosen attacks (to front-load damage) Mathematically: I am usually not opting for a non-set %damage piece if the %proc chance is below 35%. My calculus is: If it takes two hits of a fast-recharge attack to defeat a mob(ile) when %damage happens, and also two hits to defeat a mob(ile) without %damage, then the %damage isn't really helping the build. I freely admit that I will sprinkle %-Resistance pieces into attacks if I can't immediately see a better use for the slot (anywhere in the build)... %-Res seems like a better choice on teams than %damage, and it also seems like a better choice against targets with large sacks of HP.

I took a Thugs MM to 50 (and BEYOND!) and I have to agree that it feels 'too unruly' for my taste. I can see why folks like it as a primary; for me I felt as if I had to micro-managing the henchmen and pets. I certainly could play this character better, but it simply felt like too much work. The trivial complaint I have about my experience with Thugs is this: (Because of the melee focus?) even while on Bodyguard mode, the henchmen were picking fights with more than one spawn, especially when playing x8 content....even without Gang War in play. There were plenty of maps (you know the ones) where I'd find myself fighting 3 (or more!) spawns... and for my build, the secondary wasn't particularly well-suited for dealing with all that crazy.

IIRC, the Seeker drones don't proc %damage.

But, who do the pearl-clutchers blame on a team with no Tankers?

In case it wasn't made obvious: The AH's pooling means that a crafted Enhancement at Level X can be bought as the same enhancement at any other non-attuned level (the enhancement could exist at), not just as an attuned version of the enhancement.... level 25s can become level 50s for example. There are many places in my builds where I don't want (or would not otherwise get) a set bonus, so I want the highest level version of the piece (to boost). It's also a good strategy for PVP pieces, since they will scale without needing to be attuned.

It's been said. The passive-aggressive comment is pure projection. Your first post in this thread is a derailment into passing judgement on how other players the game. Check yourself.... you literally questioned the motives of rhetorical(?) players, which is practically the definition of an argumentum ad hominem! @KaizenSoze asks for a recommendation for a cleanup character, I offered a specific choice, with rationale. I still think Masterminds are the best at cleanup.

Equip Robots should have Resistance slotted, not Endurance Reduction (for page 5). IIRC the henchmen get a significant portion of their Resistance from it, but even if you don't want that, it is still better used as a mule.

Is that why there weren't enough attacks to your liking?

I have been on a LOT of Market Crash, and even more Penny Yin TF missions in the Terra Volta reactor (where it is possible to have a LOT of spawns in that first room). Each of these TFs offer a LOT of opportunities to have aggro from multiple Freak spawns, because the spawns are for all intents adjacent to each other. These complaints about Tankers misbehaving feel to me like folks trying to make a complaint stick against an entire AT (or two, if we invite the Fury-loving Brutes) because somebody got squished in a game that offers multiple ways to self-rez. There is no shame in having health go to zero. If that happens on a PUG, hopefully everyone on the team adjusts. (*1) It sounds like the issue isn't with an AT being played "wrong", it's the players that are "playing wrong"? (*1) I'll send some of my Blasters ahead of the Tanker, specifically because of the aggro cap. I can tell when teammates are hanging back to watch me embarrass myself! I don't mind, as I was given both a green bar and a blue bar to use.

Market Crash is a very particular instance, especially if trying for the Valet Badge: Any character that barrels in is going to start the Freak attacks. There are spawns that are near cars/trucks, and spawns that are not. For example: Ignore the Skiffs! Best practice is to pull enemies away from cars/trucks but not try to herd them. It is important to see which enemies are still attacking cars/trucks. The team really cannot stay together in order to save all the cars/trucks. The team does have to split up in order to save the cars/trucks, so it isn't as if any one AT can take the blame (unless it is a character that stands next to a car/truck while taking enemy AoE) Now... if the discussion is about the Freaks in anyone of the preceding missions of Market Crash... I mean, they are Freakshow, so they will rez. I don't think it is fair to expect everybody on a fast-moving team to slow down just to see which ones do rez.

Are you sure you weren't teaming with Strawman the Logical Fallacy?

If the Tanker is necessary to clean up a typical boss (or two!) at fractional health, then compared to the rest of the team the Tank IS ub3rl33t. It's not as if the Tanker is going to immediately lose aggro of a single boss by taking the alpha-strike from the next spawn.

I'd like to add to the @aethereal points that we used to have a much harder limit on the "awesome sauce" of our builds... the Fitness pool used to be something we actually had to take! Not having the pool inherent was a true PITA, but it was an early throttle on imbalance, even pre-ED.

I am not right, but my memories of PVP having an effect on my lead character (a teleporting Invulnerability/Energy Melee Tanker) that I struggled to level from launch day... It actually played like a Tanker in PVP (he couldn't be killed, his single-target Stuns were an actual threat to enemy squishies, even if he could only drop an enemy once in a blue moon), and then at some point PVP Stuns became the thing to cry about in PVP, such that I felt the PVE balance of the Energy Melee set was hurt just to satisfy a particular playstyle of PVPers. I don't think that anyone who complained realized (or cared) that the sort of build I was playing in PVP was incredibly substandard in PVE. Holding off entire teams of redside PvPers with a single character was a thing of beauty. Pretty much the only semi-reliable threat to that character in PVP was Endurance loss.

I think Masterminds are the best at "cleanup", primarily because the MM can dispatch the henchmen to go after runners (if not immobilized to begin with) and can debuff hard targets left behind.

This weekend I fired up the second build to do some testing with Radioactive Cloud, using roughly my original build. The power choice (at level taken) changes are: I wanted to keep Atom Smasher, as I enjoy Blapping with this character. It also has the advantage of being available for lower level content (e.g. Synapse) and is also offering me some valuable Superior Winter Set bonuses. Also, having two Melee PBAoE helps when blinded. It also allowed me to compare the two powers when slotted. The slotting I used was: Level 28: Radioactive Cloud (A) Unbreakable Constraint - Recharge/Accuracy (50+5) (*) Unbreakable Constraint - Chance for Smashing Damage (*) Gladiator's Net -Recharge/Accuracy (50+5) (*) Gladiator's Net - Chance of Damage (Lethal) (*) Ghost Widow's Embrace - Chance of Damage (Psionic) I pulled all the slots out of Ionize, leaving it with just the Gaussian's %BuildUp piece and a 50+5 Recharge IO. The loss of the (6-piece) set bonuses, plus an additional mule for LoTG hurt (for some content) but playing on a Saturday Night Synapse and a +4 Dark Astoria misison team (using only +1 Incarnate shift) have me somewhat convinced I can live without them. The loss of 2.5% (positional) defenses was hard to judge in PUGs, I will need to run more x8 solo content to judge. I will say: Radioactive Cloud was not a good DPS substitute for Atom Smasher on my Blapper; it is a very good extra attack. The Hold portion isn't so important to me as Recharge and Accuracy (IIRC, the %damage need slotted Accuracy). The faster recharge on Atom Smasher brings it ahead, despite the smaller radius. I can easily see how Atom Smasher could fall behind for enemies that don't group or when using a more ranged play-style. It is a difficult power to work into an attack chain, I find myself planning opportunities to use it. For a player/build not committed to Blapping, I won't judge anyone for passing on Atom Smasher.

I spent some amount of time looking for an Enhancement-based way to leverage the new slotting options of Upgrade Robot; my conclusion was that there is no better option than a single Healing IO at 50+5 in the default slot. The "one-cast" feature of the power doesn't make a strong case for Endurance reduction, which is (I think) the second-best choice. I suppose if for some reason a player chose to not take the Maintenance Drone, and make some peculiar choices regarding their slotting of Health they might be some specific Enhancement set bonus that could be pursued via Upgrade Robot... but I think that those would be really odd choices.

The zone I think is designed the best is Cap Au Diable. It has a nice variety of "areas" (urban, industrial, natural) with a good bit of "warrens", but it is easy to travel in/across no matter matter the travel power. I'm sure someone will complain about redside being "too grim", but it's not very different than Kings Row or Brickstown, and it is far more visually exciting than Skyway City or Steel Canyon. I will call out two zones to contrast: Perez Park vs. Croatoa, on the subject of "navigating through the forest (tunnels)". I understand the role Perez Park played at launch, but the tight and twisty pathways through trees (especially for that one exploration badge, the one with the moss) are more cruel than cool. Croatoa has wider "tunnels" , most with visual clues to follow, and the spawns will move through the tunnels as a further clue of the paths to move throughout them. I like Perez Park, but the tunnel feature grates me (even with a map pack). A new zone? I think the Rogue Isles need an equivalent to the (Abandoned) Sewer Network: An subterranean "hazard zone" (or two!) that links Port Oakes and Cap Au Diable. Per the arc, it would be natural to have a "lower level" arc with enemy levels appropriate for those two zones, but I often find myself bored with the variety of "street sweepable" enemies at level 45-50 redside, which is why I ask for a "deeper" version too. The Tunnel of the Trolls is reasonable easy to navigate, so I'm thinking something like that, but with more volcanic graphics and some "sunken city/abandoned base" features scattered about.

Is /jranger a taunt or a flame?