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I had a similar experience at the Department of Motor Vehicles... except that the other person had outstanding warrants! I had to suggest that the state office check the driver's license information... of the state-issued license I was renewing.... before I could conclude my business.

Since Penny Yin is the weekly, I ran a few more non-Brutes through the Penny Yin TF at +0x1 Beam/EA Sentinel: 12m 20sec. Warshade: 20m 20sec. Obviously both Brute and Tankers need to be nerfed to make the Warshade feel better. /s

Imagine if the final power in the Flight pool was a toggle that made you fly faster.. oh wait... Excuse, back to the Medicine pool. TL;DR: I think it is fine. Re-read the post by @Glacier Peak above. I don't see the role of the Medicine pool to be to turn characters without healing powers into healers, I see the pool as a way to give a limited number of healing/support powers to characters that want them... plus (as mentioned in the referenced post) a pretty good %damage melee attack option. I'm not categorically opposed to making some updates to the Medicine pool, for reasons: #1 The Medicine pool occupies a peculiar, particular part of design space from my PoV... there isn't often much need for healing (+status) that can't be addressed by the use of Inspirations... or just running away and allowing Regeneration to do its thing. Since Inspirations are essentially just 'click powers', I don't know why a character who invests an actual power pick needs to have those early powers be interruptible. #2 In a lot of team play (in my experience), preemptively applying the Absorb from Spirit Ward (Sorcery pool) to someone on the team who is likely to be taking damage is probably superior to retroactively applying Aid Other to someone that has taken damage. This doesn't sit right with me.

I find the Flight pool to be something of an odd duck. I don't know what I'd want changed about it, but here are my thoughts, pretty much every time I play my characters who went deep into the Flight pool: Air Superiority: I like that this power is in the pool! Alternate melee attack with a fun animation. Hover and Fly: Not the same thing, but kind of the same thing. Obvious differences that we all know and love, I find I need both but then... Evasive Maneuvers: makes Hover and Fly "better"... but I primarily only use it for +Fly speed... and I think this is because I have run out of slots for Hover and Fly! Group Fly: Unique sort of power that I think is fine for what it is. Sidestepping Group Fly's potential effect on teammates (because henchmen/pets), 4 of the 5 powers are strictly affecting only the player picking the pool... which is a little bit of an outlier. For me... it feels like Evasive Maneuvers is the oddball. I like having the "flight control"... lack of control while using Flight is a design feature of the game I know... but it feels weird to me to have to (a) pick an extra power and (b) toggle it on and (c) have the other power(s) also toggled on to get the full effect. It's not as if there aren't other powers in pools that aren't "auto". I also don't like keeping it in my power tray! I suppose if I was going to propose a change to the Flight Pool, it would be to make Evasive Maneuvers an Auto power.

IIRC: Confront is an auto-hit in PvE, Provoke (presence pool) requires a ToHit check in PvE.

Don't forget Unrelenting in the Presence pool! The predicate picks in the Presence pool are generally not as useful IMO. I frequently take either Sorcery or Force of Will, and the rationales go something like this... If I want to have a power to free my character of mezz effects, I'll go Sorcery... I usually will pick Mystic Flight as the travel power, and Spirit Ward as a mule for the %absorb piece from Preventive Medicine. Rune of Protection becomes a mule for at least one Resistance set global piece. I have taken Arcane Bolt for flavor, or when I could drop it in as a ranged attack. Enflame isn't terrible, but a character needs a specific reason to take it because usually I can find another power that I can leverage for better overall effect. For Force of Will: I rather like Mighty Leap as a travel power, as it can be really fast for crossing zones. I almost always take Weaken Resolve on the path to Wall of Force (I like having a ranged cone at level 14!), and if I have a leftover power pick then I will pick up Unleash Potential. I have a couple of characters that Wall of Force didn't make sense to have so it got skipped. The build issue I have with Unleash Potential is that it requires slots to be really useful (if can mule pieces, but that seems like such a waster) and (IMO) the build needs some global recharge to get it to the point where a character can really count on it. Unrelenting is similar in its need for slots. I feel like I have one character that opted for Project Will over Weaken Resolve... if so it must have been a circumstance where I not only wanted a ranged attack, but I also had enough slots to put into it for some sort of enhancement set bonus. I've tried to get as much mileage out of the Experimentation pool, but I am less impressed. I really like Corrosive Vial, and Experimental Injection is a decent enough power to mule a healing piece. Adrenal Boost is another long-recharge excellent set of self-boosts, but I kinda hate that the slotting options are so limited. I think I've only picked this power for certain Tankers for which I've specifically not hit certain levels of resistance (because of powers or slotting choices) for damage types, such that clicking it is enough to cover a situation when I need it. I have really mixed feelings about Speed of Sound as a travel power. I like the Jaunt aspect, I often use it as a sort of Combat Teleport. I'm mostly meh on Super Speed as a travel power because of zone geometry... but what really gets me is that as soon as I jump while traveling with Speed of Sound, I basically lose forward momentum and become slooooow. I always feel like I have to have extra temp powers that are constantly being used to get around zones.

I don't know if @Haijinx was actually promoting the "easiest" as a preferred solution, or as simply repeating the sort of nonsensical suggestion that is often made by a handful of forum members. I certainly agree that any suggestion taking something away from another AT to "make Brutes better" is a complete non-starter. Surely we recognize that HC CoX is not a zero-sum game between Brutes and Tankers?

As a thought experiment: Would Brutes be happier if the Brute inherent was swapped with another ATs inherent, such as what the Kheldians or VEATS have?

I'd certainly use your version of Mids to see if adding a 50+5 Numina Health piece to Health improves the Regenration in a noticeable way. Slotting Health by itself helps with Regeneration, and the 2-piece Numina bonus is IIRC a regeneration increase. Otherwise... your Invuln build is doing things radically different enough that I don't have an easy answer. My own invuln build burns the green bar a little faster than I'd recommend for EXTREME content... but that is something less than 0.1% of my play time... so a little more Regeneration would help me in a way that may not help you. If more Regeneration doesn't do much, I'd look at what the Hit rolls look like for the extreme content, as Tough Hide can hold the Kismet +ToHit piece. Invuln doesn't need much in the way of ToHit bonuses, until the fight is 1-on-1. I get a (perverse?) sense of satisfaction when playing the Manticore TF and it is my Tanker who is finishing off the Paragon Protectors in Moment-of-Glory mode.

I'm a little flummoxed by the @Azarichoice (in multiple powers) to +5 only three pieces of Unbreakable Guard and then go with a 4th generic IO of Resistance. Enhancement Diversification is absolutely putting a crimp on MOAR, in these cases Resistance.... Resistance has a low threshold for ED... MOAR Resistance is only fractionally reducing incoming damage, so I see a sort of double-whammy of highly marginal returns past the ED The 4th set bonus from Unbreakable Guard is right there for the taking The Reactive Defenses Scaling resistance piece is almost certainly doing more for the build's Resistance profile than any of those 4th Resistance IOs. I have a suspicion that the Tank build could be well served by having a Numina Health 50+5 paired up with the Numina %proc instead of the Miracle +Recovery. I certainly value Endurance management more than Regeneration, but the greater HP of Tankers is where I start to pay close attention to each. I think a slot can be saved from Invincibilty, while also improving the ToHit nature of the power. My own slotting is: (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed (*) Shield Wall - Defense: Level 50+5 (*) Shield Wall - +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All) (*) HamiO:Cytoskeleton Exposure (Endurance/ ToHit/Defense): Level 53 (*) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up

I do believe it is possible that there are names on Homecoming that are "protected", and not by players. For example, there are names that you cannot give to henchmen/pets. There was one name I tried to get on day one of a character that I had on Live that I was rather surprised was not available, that included the word "Homecoming" in the name. It wasn't the most original name I admit, but all the variants I tried were unavailable. Since the project has the Homecoming name, I can easily believe that those names were reserved. It is of course possible I was slow, but on the server I play on I got all the other names of my favorite mains, even those I know I didn't have on all of the various "Live" servers.

I agree: They are well balanced, I suspect that some of the complaints are that Brutes are no longer "the best" at whatever. Let's face it: giving Tankers improved AoE was not "nerfing" Brutes. It is easier to get Brutes to a point where they hit this sort of balance earlier and/or with less effort, yet I don't question that there is some content where a "well-balanced" solo build will see certain levels of performance eclipsed by alternate options. Fury is a different sort of mechanic (and not one I have ever liked if I am being honest, *1) that probably could be re-jiggered but it has been such a long-standing part of the AT identity that I'm personally not sure what sort of change would make Brute advocates feel good. I can understand that because for so long in the game there could be a simplified analysis of MOAR FURY -> MOAR DAMAGE -> BEST DPS -> BEST REWARDS, such that as soon as some non-Brute is achieving "better DPS" or "Better Rewards" (by some arbitrary measure) I can understand some people feeling like Brutes having become a second class AT. It's not like a Defender, Controller or Kheldian is suddenly going to be earning "Better Rewards, Faster" than a Brute. *1 One of the things I never liked about Fury is the original "building and sustaining" aspect. I can see why farming (AFK or otherwise) leans toward Brutes, but for typical content this guy (points to self) solo or in teams I always found it to be one more thing to pay attention to on top of everything else happening on the map. I don't have alternate suggestions for it, I only mention my dislike of Fury because it's the number one reason why I have always eschewed Brutes.

Aside from getting some new Enhancement sets for Threat (especially with some Accuracy pieces, hmmkay?) there is one change I'd like to see made to the Presence pool versions of Pacify and Provoke: Many of my builds would deeply appreciate if the pool powers were altered as follows: Include a check against caster arch(etype) such that if the power is cast by an AT that would otherwise have access )generally) to a Placate or Taunt/Confront (Stalkers, VEATs, tankers, Scrappers, Brutes) that the Presence Pool version would basically become the "primary" version. I'm selfish: I have several characters of those ATs that want the Presence pool, but don't want to take an inferior version of a power they have access to in a Primary or Secondary. I don't think this request is unreasonable, as the Presence pool has a pretty high lift to get to Invoke Panic and/or Unrelenting and the first three powers (Pacify, Provoke, Intimidate) are each "orthogonal" in terms of utility... that is to say: if I have a character that can get use from Pacify, it is not typical that the same character can also get use out of Provoke or Intimidate.

I don't typically try to Solo the Penny Yin TF, but I did run some of my different non-brute ATs through it at +0x1, fighting only the necessary critters (when possible, see results). Stealth didn't really play into my runs, as I dashed past all critters I didn't need to fight. (Spines/Bio) Stalker: 11m 56sec. Got lucky with the Archon Ascendant, but did have to put down some shapeshifted Warwolves. I probably could have just used primary and secondary powers. (Inv/EM) Tanker: 12m 27sec. The Archon Ascendant took itself out of the fight, otherwise this might have been faster. The Stuns seamed to be pretty important, as was Taunt and Weaken Resolve. (SJ/WP) Scrapper: 12m 50sec. The Archon Ascendant took me out of the fight AND took itself out of the fight. Clamor was hurting this character. One of the final necessary defeats ran away so I feel like there was a smidge of bad luck here. (Mind/Poison) Controller: 15m 50 seconds. One death, one Shivan used for the AV fight. I hadn't made sure to have useful inspirations. This time is only within an order of magnitude of the others because of %damage... so let's not nerf %damage shall we. I did take a little extra time to defeat enemies before summoning Clamor, both to not have to worry about them and to get some extra insps. The Archon Ascendent was no problem 🙂 The times were short enough and there were so few defeats that nobody got a Catalyst, although the Scrapper got a PVP recipe. Each of these characters needed to go out on a run (they all had Wentworth day jobs), each was built in a way that some folks would call "expensive".

PUG = pick-up group I also see the green bar as something to spend. Only by going off of how important "softcapping defense" is to so many conversations, as well as "X is as survivable as Y", Any loss of green is seen as a bad thing. Recent Anecdote: I was in a PUG, I was playing a Blaster with somewhat mediocre defenses (but with a few OH #### options as well as scaling resistances on top of well-typed resistances for the content we were facing. I was drawing aggro in typical Blaster fashion, and one of the team healers made a reasonable complaint that they were struggling (and occasionally dying) "trying to keep me healed". I said thanks, but don't go out of the way to worry about me when my health bar is above 50%. The mezz protects? I LURV those, but I also have plans for mezz myself! Similarly, when I play a character with heals... I try to pay attention to which PUGmates need the healing/absorb/whatever. If I see a melee type above 50%, I don't sweat healing them unless they are in an obvious cascading failure mode. Tanks and Brute, it depends on the matchup of damage types with the powers in use. Masterminds, if I don't have an AoE heal you guys are on your own... keep the henchmen in Bodyguard mode!

I agree with this argument in theory, so has it been demonstrated that the same Yin TF takes a Brute 24 minutes longer to finish than a Tanker? Let's assume that they pick the same fights. Blasters can certainly finish a Yin arc in under 10 minutes, but that involves a specific sort of play choices. I wouldn't say a Tanker/Brute finishing a Yin arc in 34 minutes is a sign that those ATs are under-powered. For example: one HC change that was made that did not focus on Tankers/Brutes was the allowing of T7/T8/T9 powers to be taken earlier in a build than was the case on Live. Prior to this change, some of my characters were finishing arcs like Theoden's SSA1 in 7 minutes, but others would take 12+. Same player, same difficulty, similar approach to building and playing characters. Now that all the characters have earlier access to the T7/T8/T9s, I don't have any character that takes much more than 7 minutes to finish that arc, and the previous speedy ones did not have their times noticeably improved.

I like this as a sort of alternative path for Brutes, I can see that the sincere, reasonably well-considered suggestions doesn't make Brutes better at defeating more things faster, which is what I suspect most Brute advocates prefer. I (points to self) have this opinion, not about any single AT, based on nothing except watching PUGmates: I get the sense that many players don't see the Health bar as something they ever want to see reduce below full. With the typical defense/resistances of even semi-complete Brutes, I can see why this suggestion would be a non-starter.

Sounds hypothetical at this point. What content are you basing this set of arguments on?

Here is where I would roughly start. I even included Hasten! Caveat: I got down to the last few powers so I just dropped in some Flight pool powers. Mileage varies, I rather like having Group Fly for some of the the Hard Mode stuff. I tried to indicate which enhancements I would boost, and which ones would be attuned. there is a a little bit of a game-of-inches aspect here. I don't value +Regen on low HP characters, so I almost never go for 2x (or more) LotG set bonuses. Annihilation is used all over the place because I want to stand a good chance at extending the duration of -Resistance, especially against spawn areas. I also like the other set bonuses it brings. The MM ATOs are already providing four times the 10% +Global Recharge, so only one Very rare set could be added to benefit for that bonus. I've experimented with Web Envelope with Robotics; I have found it to be an inferior choice to Mace Beam Volley (with %-Resistance) for all content. Some self-critical comments follow: Specially for Hard Mode, I would want Frostwork in the build to help some ally. I was going to explicitly drop Hasten, but as that is a non-starter for some folks, that was a compromise. I find that better-crafted Allies don't need it, but you can't predict what others will bring to a play session. I'd probably swap it in at level 49. I full recognize that there ought to be a noticable effect on the recharge times of some of the very long powers... so *I* would start with Hasten 2x slotted and then see if I really needed it (and if it really needed 2 slots). MMs tend to burn Endurance hard, so I tried to get MaxEnd, Endurance Discount, and Recovery bonuses. One EndMod in Stamina may not be needed ...or not providing that much extra Recovery... I would use an unslotter to test performance and maybe free up a slot. The +Perception in Tactics is a Quality-of-Life decision I make for Robotics, because I personally value more perception when looking for specific enemies. That slot could be moved elsewhere. I tried to leverage the ally shields to provide benefits for hard-mode teammates, but I haven't tested these... except using a cold Corruptor... so the slotting on them could be tweaked. The Robotic Henchmen are probably fine with just the auras and Supremacy effects, and may not need much extra (resists) from the shields... I absolutely would test using unslotters to find what works best here. as I wrote, I am mostly imagining a teammate bringing a somewhat lacking build to the hard mode that I would need to help. I'm flexible about knockback, but with the AoE area stuff going on, it probably makes sense to keep the Knockdown choice in mace Beam Volley. I don't sweat the little remaining knockback in the henchmen attacks.

I don't. Are you suggesting that there is some specific content that takes a Brute 24 minutes longer than a Scrapper or Tanker?

I'm not buying the argument that this is especially fine-tuned build for 4-star content, simply because: Dark Embrace isn't slotted to help the MM take hits Protector Bots aren't slotted with Defense Also, if this was tuned for 4-star, As I wrote: I would expect that instead of all the %damage in the MM attacks, that there would be more emphasis on set bonuses. As written above Infrigidate is a great power for %damage... but this is a Robotics Mastermind, with 6 henchmen all making ranged attacks. The MM doesn't need a %damage single-target attack to improve performance. Keep the slotting for %-Resistance, because that can be a force multiplier.... but those extra slots are IMO wasted. There is another subtle point about %proc (wherever it is slotted): Code review had shown that in addition to an attack (on a target) requiring a ToHit check, that in addition to the %proc chance itself (based on inherent attributes of the power, and the power's recharge time) that each %proc that fired required it's own ToHit check based on the accuracy of the power. Global Accuracy and ToHit bonuses don't factor into this. This ToHit check belongs to the %proc; I believe it is set up this way in the code so that the %damage procs don't "autohit" in certain powers (for example, Taunts). I mention this because if a player is trying to leverage %damage, they ought to make sure that the powers also have accuracy slotted in them, especially if fighting higher-level enemies. EDIT: I want to add that I think that the @Videra build (using similar philosophy of powers to what @AmrasNotHere seems to want) strikes me as being a more effective one. It doesn't quite have the build as I would, but it has kept the powers as asked. It appears to be more effective across more content, including "hard mode" teaming.

I'll bluntly admit my own defects: I see a LOT of comparison between Brutes, Scrappers and Tankers for specific content... but I don't see similar comparisons for other ATs in the same content... with the exception of one or two players trying to take certain other ATs through Trapdoor tests. A further personal defect of mine: when map clear times for things like Hard Mode or +4x8 shows consistent differences for a few ATs that complete whatever challenge in under three minutes... I don't think it is worth claiming that any of those ATs require improvement. YMMV.

This feels like the truest thing written in the thread. Before CoV was launched: Scrappers were favored over Tankers because it wasn't that hard to get Resistance/Defenses on a Scrapper to the point where the much faster defeat/map clear times of a Scrapper. There were of course numerous Fire tankers that existed primarily to mindlessly collect XP and inf due to the original critter AI, but for most content of that era, Scrappers were the melee class. When CoV introduced Brutes, they basically were Scrappers with an easier time of hitting the Defense/Resistance of Tankers, but with a mechanic to make it easier for them to get to/exceed Scrapper levels of damage. [Let's sidestep all PVP talking points, as I don't think there is a clear argument to be made about PVP regarding balance among melee types for that or any other era, except that boy did the devs misread PVP Stun!] When sides could mix: Now there are multiple ATs that can compete with Tankers for survivability, all of which do more damage, also faster, across almost all game content. It remains pretty easy to make (solo) characters more survivable, but there are precious few ways to give characters more damage. At HC launch, there were months of players discussing (on a spectrum ranging from cold calculations of DPS to "neener-neener") in-game talking down Tankers and explicitly promoting Brutes as superior. It is impossible to know what specific content was the basis for these arguments, as from my PoV except for +4 AV fights, AFK farms, and some specific enemy types, Scrappers and Stalkers were never slackers... but I digress. The Tanker AoE buff (plus aggro management changes) was well-motivated, smart, and happened to have a side effect that for some types of play, and certain builds (power and slotting choices) a solo Tanker can clear a map faster than a solo Brute. From my PoV this is 100% due to a Tanker simply being able to hit more minions in large spawns. the number of hits required to defeat a single minion hasn't changed it's just that now Tankers don't have throw as many attacks at multiple critters. The inherent way spawns are constructed and scale up, for most content the large number of minions used to be a HUGE delay for Tankers... Writing for myself: before the AoE increase I found it easier to clear x8 spawns with Controllers than with Tankers! I find Tankers still go somewhat slow against large spawns of enemies that resist grouping up (even when using Taunt)... Praetorian clocks come to mind... because those larger AoE simply aren't reaching as many critters in a spawn. As an aside: I understand the potential team-effects of how to increase both damage and survivability of each different type of AT... but the game clearly is not balanced around the assumption that each AT has a a specific ally boosting Damage/resistance/Defense/whatever. I appreciate the OP being open to find a new niche for Brutes... but I'm not convinced that many of the vocal advocates for change (some in this thread) would accept the AT moving to a different niche. It's clear that there are some people that just want the Brute AT to be better... I don't know if there is even agreement that the Brute should simply be better than it currently is, or that Brutes need to be better than some other specific AT (hence the arguments and datamining in specific content). I think it is more productive to focus on the former, if there are specific defects with the AT.

I'm not the person you were asking, but I'll point out what I immediately don't like about the screenshot you posted above: 1) 6-sloting stamina with Power Transfer (or anything really). The bonuses from the set can be had in other ways, using fewer slots. 3 slots in Stamina, max. 2) %damage all-over-the-place. MMs need their henchmen to do damage; MMs should not try to be damage dealers with their powers... especially not on single-target attacks. I see what I consider to be wastes of slots and/or missed opportunities to get more/better enhancement set bonuses. 3) Provoke... and also the way it is slotted. Provoke requires a ToHit check, and it has a maximum target cap IIRC of 5 critters. I is better to lob an AoE attack (that hits) at a group to try to grab aggro. Slotting it with only (what I am guessing is) a %Psi damage is an especially bad choice. 4) I don't like Hasten on MMs on the principle of "Endurance burn", but I could accept it *IF* the build has (aside from the henchmen powers) ONLY powers that take longer than 45 seconds to recharge after slotting. 5) The Miracle piece in Upgrade Robot is not a good spot for it. It will only give the MM the benefits, and only for 120 seconds after casting it. A Health IO is all that is needed here. Some subtle points that I'd investigate, but I think indicate some incomplete thinking A) Using the Kismet +ToHit piece. It only benefits the MM, and generally I feel that alternate slotting of attacks that would include accuracy is better (see 2, above) ... so maybe this is trying to overcome the accuracy problem with the %damage approach. Even if so... this feels like "throwing good enhancements after bad slotting". B) I'm not a fan of the Defense slotting. Equip Robot can Mule Resistance pieces, Arctic Fog is (IMO, YMMV) a good place for 6xReactive Defenses, Shield Walls can be boosted and can go in another power. C) When using Unbreakable Guard, I try to use 2-, 4-, and sometimes 5-pieces (if worried about Toxic/Psi damage). One piece in something Dark Embrace shows me that power isn't being treated seriously because it isn't enhancing the power and also getting a 2-piece set bonus D) I am not crazy about the henchmen slotting... but that is easy to test with unslotters.