Duck-Smokes-Quack

You could try Water/Cold corr if the lack of a heal concerns you with Ice/ Plus water has LOTs of KD as another form of mitigation The general agreement around here is that Storm is better on Defs than Corrs to

Yeah it kinda puts me off when everyone says the same thing about Staff being low damage (although i know it shouldnt) My main is MA/SR so not looking to roll any more MA i dont think, although it does loko juciy on tankers for sure

Anything that pairs particualarly well with Dark/ ? Im thikning maybe /Staff seems good, maybe /Claws? /TW seems like it could be great but the journey to 50 would be brutal since it probably cant function without Cardiac Im probably leaning towards Dark/Staff right now since it has nice AoE and the end discount, but ive never actually used staff and i know people say its damage is low

I've only ever really put time into learning about Super Speed back in the day. I knew about the run cap of 92.5mph It was silly easy to get on my MA/SR scrapper due to the inherant Quickness run speed buff + Swfit. I used to zoom around all the time overtaking other people running at it was great Now a days, all the incarnates and IO buffs seem to have just about everyone at the cap ... i no longer feel like a speedster as every tom, dick and harry has the run speed party trick in their back pocket. I think an interesting way to reclaim the crown of "speed demon" would be to try out teleporting. I've seen some theory crafting before out an /engery blaster using Power Boost? (i think) to increase range and being able to teleport stupidly far. I'm sure in a straight like in a big zone Teleport is hands down the fastest power IF you can overcome the endurance usage. It would be intereting to see just how far it could be pushed.

/SR gets the cap of 95% I litterally never have to worry about defence It never ever ever goes down

Ok so I managed to get 2:26 time using your build with Assault on (still nowhere near the crazy 1:47 you got, i really think that was a 1 in a million run at this point) but I am happy that I got somewhere near your numbers! Finally. I copied your incarnates on my MA/SR and used CAK>SK>CS>SK. Got a bang average time in line with the others proving the Incarnates are not the source of the difference. I did however notice that I was missing ... a lot. Frustratingly on SK (where my Crit proc lives) which must be hurting my times,. I decide to play about with the location of the Crit Proc and moved it to CS and re ran with the same chain ... Didn't work, times still basically the same. Then I tried running EC>SK>CAK>SK as you do with the Crit Proc in SK and got some of my slowest times to date (suggesting the CAK>SK>CS>SK is the superior chain) I reran again with the Crit Proc moved to EC (as you have it) and ran EC>SK>CAK>SK. I got a marked improvement on the previous times with this chain. but it certainly wasnt outright better than CAK>SK>CS>SK I am frustratingly about to go on holiday for a week and will be AFK so no more testing ... ☹️... For now Silly question (which I assume the anwers is no having seen your end issues first hand and knowing just how much bloody end the MA/ chain uses) you arent using Tactics during the fight are you? Having said all of that I think I am now finally "happy". There is a Dam+ difference in mids in our builds of 20% (caused by AAO ... a power I am now so very jelous of a an /SR user ... it buffs your dam, debuffs enemy damage and is a taunt aura ... on a scrapper ... im not jelous ... 🤐) Now based on my PB time of 2:40 and your times which seem mostly to range from 2:00-2:20 mark (ignoring your PB) which is about bang on 20%. I am still not convinced either way about the best attack chain: CAK>SK>CS>SK vs EC>SK>CAK>SK The crit proc in EC seems to help a lot, maybe by the time I get back someone may have already answered this (please god I hope someone does) Would love to be able to cram assault into my build to help mitigage slightly the power of AAO but its already so tight i doubt I can.] Closing points: Get +dam into your build its REALLY matters Martial Arts is way better than everyone thinks /SD is cleary better than /SR in almost every way (apart from DDR and the +20% rech, but the latter is easily mitigated with sets) but I still love SR Thanks @nihilii for help and patience, this is the first time ive ever tried to cut my teeth with Pylon DPS testing and set comparison and I have to say ... I have a taste for it now mwhahahahah

So you are still using EC>SK>CAK>SK ? Using Focus Chi on cool down replacing it with the 2nd EC? Would it not be better to FC > EC > CAK to take advantage of the big damage boost and crits? Refreshing AD when it expires? Or are you "risking it" and letting it run dry completley? I assume you are also refreshing Hasten on cooldown to? Could you also list the exact incarnates you are using as well please?

So I did some more testing. I booted up the beta server and ported my toon over. I played around with some attack chains (including copying your exact IOs and attack chain) No good. So i decided to recreate your exact build you linked previously (thanks @NobleKangaroo for the amazing in game menu that makes this SO easy to do) I have checked and double checked everything is exactly as your mids buils shows but the in game defenses arent at softcap? Melee: 43.99% Range: 41.27% AOE: 43.14% No idea why ... is this a mids/test server bug? I assume your toon is at softcap in game on live server ... Was not expecting to find this but thought I would bring it up! Anyway as for the DPS ... I am using your exact build and attack chain and I cannot get anywhere the 1:47 time you posted (I cant even get to the 2:17 time you posted which you said you didnt even hybrid for!) I am not trying to question your results or your honesty but the numbers just dont make any sense (maybe you meant 147 seconds rather than 1:47? idk) Would you be able to run again and verify your results? It was either a fluke 1/1mil run full of crits or I am badly missing something here. Also double check you are actually at the Def softcap in game for M/R/AoE - because according to the test server you arent 😣 -EDIT- Or its quite possible the bug that @Coyote submitted really is causing all of these issues. Certainly very interesting to see ... It could well mean every single previous submission using Degenerative is possibly invalid ... This must be the reason you got that crazy 1:47 time Ignore my BS about not being at the softcap (i had the steadfast KB IO in rather than the dam 3% def ....)

Ok just managed to get a new PB 2:40 (140 seconds) = 401 DPS! Fantastic, I broke the 400DPS mark on a MA/SR of all things! I should be ecstatic! ... and yet, knowing I am still close to a minute behind your fastest time (and still slower than one of your times where you didnt use Hybrid and got KBed! is driving me mad ....) What on earth is causing this difference? Its not the damage bonus from AAO since you arent saturating with minions and I tested by poping small reds to compensate. It did reduce my PB by just over 10seconds but it is not the sole cause for the gap Its the incarnates we are using. I swapped Degenerative on your recommendation (thanks!) and this also improved by time There IS a difference in our attack chain (Me: CAK>SK>CS>SK /vs/ You: EC>SK>CAK>SCK All previous data seems to indicate that CAK>SK>CS>SK is the optimal ST DPS chain for MA/. However I wonder now if this it outdated info. The Scrapper ATOs + the 33% Crit added to EC close to shutdown may have shifted the balance of power ... these results certainly seem to indicate that might be so .... My 50% crit proc is slotted in SK vs yours in EC ... I also notice that my SK seems to miss a lot ... I am also not that clear on exactly how PPM works etc ... hmmmm I wonder if anyone has any ideas to why there is a full min between our times (is there a test server that still exists where I can play about? Or do I have to edit my live toon ... which i really dont want to do atm 😋)

Yeah I didnt really think you were honestly. Yeah I expect he didn't know about it which may have saved a little bit of his time buts yours would still be ahead even if we were generous and just took a flat 20% of his time. Really? Ok that another bit of info I wasnt aware of. I was using the -50%HP 25%DoT so some minor varience there too. Yeah I do this too. OK so at least we can rule network issues out The chain I was using was CAK>SC>CS>SC Since my EC holds the passive +Crit% chance and my SC holds the active Critical Strike change (I am starting to think more and more its the location of the 50% critical hit chance proc that its main cause for gap but havent proved it yet) Just about to test keeping 1 red insp live at all times to try and rule out the bonus you get from AAO as the main cause

True ... I did forget about this *doh* Even so against 1 target if you look at our builds its showing as difference in Mids 20% Dam (14% vs 34.9% dam buff) The difference in times is 47% comparing out 2 x best posted runs (I am assuming he isnt saturating the pylon with other trash mobs? I guess its not against the "rules" otherwise Dark melee would be in deep trouble) Well assuming its just him vs the pylon, where is that extra 27% damage coming from ... im determined to find out 😁

I cannot get ANYWHERE near your times ... like not even close. You are MA/SD and I am MA/SR - but since you arent even using SC in your rotation, for this test both secondaries are basically identical since we both have clicky mez and thats about it Your times are faster even than the afformentioed testing done by @Kaeladin (back on page 9) with MA/Bio ... and /Bio as we all know is a top *cough OP cough* performer. Something must be going on here and I suggest it must be one of the following: Your time/math is wrong (least likely since I certainly don't think you are dumb) Something about using Superior Critical Strikes in EC is an undiscovered gem of game mechanics Our choice of Interface incarnates. I am using Reactive T3 (-res) whilst you are using Degenerative T3 (-hp) [My personal bet is that this is whats causing the huge numbers gap] Alternativly its something do with me. Maybe my build is just trash 😋 or maybe its because I am from the UK playing on a US server. Perhaps I am only attacking at 2/3 speed or something from a server side perspective? Like rubberbanding but less obvious when your standing completley still? I am going to craft up Degenerative now and let you know the results (Question were you using Core or Radial for Interface?) -UPDATE- Just ran 3 x quick tests with Interface: Degenerative Partial Core Conversion T3 2:51 - 352 DPS 3:14 - 325 DPS 3:51 - 293 DPS Strange bucnh of results. I got my best ever time and worst ever time with Degenerative by some distance. Not sure how to interperate this one, maybe I dont even enough data. Seems odd to me. Still nowhere near your times ... Next I will try munching reds to bring my Dam bonus from 14% to closer to 35% to be in line with you and see what results i get

Damn! Thats way faster than what I got .... Maybe the changes to EC have legit changed the best MA/DPS chain (an earlier post way back on page 9 by Kaeladin seemed to also suggest the same thing) So you didnt even use Sheild Charge? Just EC>SK>CAK>SK (Did you use judgement at all?) The time is just so much quicker - I am going to have to do some testing! Im going to test some different attack chains I wonder how much your double damage proc in CAK and damage proc in SK helps (would be really interested to see your build actually) Finally depending on the above results I will look and see how much the incarnates affected things

The melee set thats missing appears to be Martial Arts (which also happens to be the set I want to submit 😭) Great work though! Thats the sort of thing I was thinking in my head would be great! (The layout is a little clunky though - for example you could have the AT question take you to a section that only had the appropriate sets listed. It would be a bit fiddly and take a bit of work but can be done, I am happy to help if you wish and are struggling to find the time)

No idea. I think I was looking in game at where to put damage procs and noticed that CAK listed "DeffDebff" so i tried to bang a DefDebuff IO in there and it worked ... straight to the AH to grab the Achilee's Heel proc! True. Would be nice if there was some sort of Google Form maybe for people to submit their best times. That way we could collate loads of data and people would know if they were doing good DPS vs others with the same powers. As you an /SR comparing to /Bio is not a useful comparisson Good to know! I never took part in the original forums Pylon thread so don't really know what the benchmark is. Still kind feels bad to see TW/Bio do it 1/2 the time but thats the nature of the game. My main concerns are: How am I doing against other 'normal' sets (not the FOTM OP outliers) How am I doing against other people with the same sets (for me I'm most interested in MA/ performance (but MA/ seems to be very unpopular)

I think I have doe this right ... no 100% sure 1st run: 3:17 (197) = 322 DPS 2nd run: 3:09 (189) = 330 DPS I think (can anyone check my math isnt brain dead (Would this example math be correct? Time 3:17 (197 seconds) = 322 DPS?) Toon: MA/SR scrapper - attack chain CAK > SC > CS > CAK Incarnates: Alpha: Musc T4 Radial Judgement: Ion T4 Core Interface: Reactive T3 Core Hybrid: Assault T3 Core (Destiny and Lore unused) Is this good? Seems slow compared to other sets ... and MA is meant to be good at ST 😐 My build if anyone is curious at all *note Mids doesnt allow for the Achillie's Heel -res proc to go in CAK but its there in game. Probably makes a decent difference against a ST like a Pylon

Yes! Would absolutley love to see a secondary comparison! Not for damage, since its rather obvious that /Fire would win, followed by everything with damage auras or +dam abilities But for survivability. There was a post on the old forums where /Inv, /Dark, /Regen and /SR were compared and showed some amazing results. If secondaries were compared I personally be most keen to see how /SR fairs. People seem to love or hate it, and its gets bullied a lot on the forums. I would love to see some numbers to either confirm/deny the reputation it has (I am sure everyone feels the same way about at least one of their fav sets too!) I predict that if someone were to compare the secondaries for scrappers from a DPS Pov, the biggest thing is going to be taunt auras ... or the lack of on certain sets. I am not sure why the devs balanced in this way and I think its something that maybe needs addressing. Either give all scrappers a very weak taunt arua, or give none of them a taunt aura is my personal view (yours may differ) From a survivability Pov I would predict sets with a blend of Res/De, Self heal, +regen to reign supreme. I expect /Inv to be top or close too it, maybe /Ice deserves to be there too (on paper, not sure about actual performance), maybe some other suprises in there too! Who knows, but I would love to see secondaries compared

Looking for a fun endgame monster type build and Ice/TW seems to ooze potential I can see how this is a horrible combo on a Brute so all I am really left with is Scrapper vs Tank Wondering if people have any thoughts on which one I should commit to? (I worry that I wouldnt know just be leveling to 50 and I may only really start to regret my decision once I've alreayd spent way to much inf on it 😅) Scrapper Pros: Crits Stupid Scrapper tricks Skip Defensive sweep Less 'waste' of Res caps Scrapper Taunt aura! Cons: Less use from Hoarfrost Low HP pool takes a beating as TW winds up Tank Pros Huge HP pool to enjoy Hoarfrost benifits Unurivaled aggro More target caps on AoE? (It this right? from recent changes) Everyone loves to see a tank join team (dying breed) Isnt a Brute Cons Forced to take defensive sweep Nowhere near utalising 90% res caps Too much aggro? No reliable heal = dead? Might not have the top end tank performance I crave? Anyone else got some pros/cons to throw in the mix to help me make a decision? Anything I am missing/overlooking?

Love the speed of sound, afterburner type visual Would love to see normal SS get the same sort of treatment

Oh thanks! Super helpful in which case that settles it Ill keep the -res proc in CAK and ditch the -tohit proc in CS and replace with a nice damage proc

Right the Critcial proc is the active one right? But the other set (Scrapper Strike?) that one is passive right? Its not a proc its just a permenant bonus? I have slotted that one in EC since I only use EC for AoE situations and never for ST

Oh ok ... so very very marginal then I very much doubt the Absolute Amazment -tohit proc is worthit in Cobra Strike then. Probably better off with a damage proc (Touch of death maybe for nice Energy Damage) Crippling Axe Kick ... Still not sure. Im no math wiz but for example if i were fighting an AV, Youre saying that they resist 85% of debuff? So something like 8% + damage on all attacks (including team mates) for its duration (bearing in mind MA has a lighning fast attack chain) A damage proc like Touch of death would fire off 3 x times in a min for about 1200 damage roughly. So Im still not sure - i think the damage proc might actually be better unless you were on a mega team pumping out crazy numbers but I am not sure The thing that stays in the back of my mind is how much -res procs seems to matter in top DPS builds and maybe I am badly undervaluing them

Yeah I figured this might be the case. I guess when it comes to the Def vs Corr numbers the rule of thumb I have seen a few people use around here is Rain powers + Really bad Tier 1 blasts = Play Corr On another slightyl related note, do you know who made this sheet or if they keep it up to date at all? I noticed that the MA chain for scrappers did not slot the -res proc (which I believe it can now properly take). Some of the other sets go out of their way to note the impact this proc has on the numbers. Would be really curious to see how MA fairs with this tweak. The way I see it is that its AoE is horrible, so its ST should be epic - but it seems to be a middling set which I find sad

Thanks for this. Im guessing in particular sets with combo mechanics suffer the most on this sheet then, for example Water Blast / Dual Blades etc All underrepsented due to the fiddly nature of the mechanics? Does anyone know why the Corruptor tab seems to have been abandoned? It just caught my eye is all, I would imagine is because it would read exactly the same as the defender one? Or was it due to Scourge being to tricky numbers wise? Just curious.

Forgot about that! Thanks, memory like a sieve Just the proc questions then - ill edit the original post Thanks again