Infinitum

this is starting to look more and more like a TW/Bio and scrapper issue than anything else. If it was as OP as you guys are saying, why doesnt it overtake Spines fire on Brutes? Damage is damage right?

My EM brute by all definations a broken set beat it though. Exact same secondary, slotting set bonuses and all. Damage is damage no matter how many its supposed to hit. The only place TW shines for me is minion lieu mob clearing. It's not fast on bosses or higher even when compared to my EM. Definitely doesn't feel over powered.

I agree with everything you said, but especially this. I think it's an outlier because of a select few exploiting it and synergies you can gain with it rather than average joe play. Nerf it, and no non power user will ever play it aside from thematics, which is why I chose it to be honest. I'm IOd out on mine and still dont see what all the fuss is about.

No way with the level 15 ish being good. Just no way. Lol. Didnt happen for me anyway.

Those formulas aren't translating to what the set actually does in gameplay in every scenario though, not for every design possibility anyway. If you arent building for damage TW isnt going to do the extreme stuff you are talking about. Thats what I was trying to figure out last night. I can see if you were building for damage and also with bio armor how it could be OP but mines not. And it is a clunky mess until about lvl30 to 40 somewhere ive had people drop it several times because of that.

I wish I could have put what I was trying to say to words as goid as you just did. But that nails it. Well done!

I think your TW and mine have similar utility, because im not seeing the dps they are talking about either I built it to take a beating and aoe/cone the mob around the boss-av to death. I also didn't think about what you said about people abandoning the set early, usually pre 30 becausr it is a clunky unforgiving set prior to that. I had at least 4 sg mates abandon it. Their complaint was it was dreadfully slow, and ate so much endurance they could barely finish missions especially when there was a boss or av present. But everything you said is my experience with TW also, I'm glad its not just me that feels confused why it feels so OP because mine honestly doesnt and thats why its shelved on favor of at lease 2 others, 3 if they adjust EM.

Doesnt compute does it? lol

That same troller can then solo TFs AVs and then combine it with more and something even more cool happens, that power stacks. (I get it its supposed to, and I have one that can do this) It makes any other AT unnecessary. All of melee should be buffed if needed, not any top performer nerfed. If for not any other reason than to not look out of place with the OP of the buff debuff stacking game. From what I'm seeing also, most upper level TW outliers come when in combo with bio, could that be creating a weird synergy that makes it such an outlier? The reason I ask that is mine is a TW/Elec. It doesnt feel like an outlier to me when compared to my Fire fire pyre tank with aoes, or with my EM, rad, or psi brute with single target even when using rend armor as the main attack for ST. I was just messing arounf PI last night with the portal Corp death mage families and I could take them down in 2-3 hits with my rad my EM or my psi, with TW it took a good bit longer to take them out. I built my TW for aoe/cone, I didnt think it was bad but maybe my TW build is just crappy. lol

Well its a shame you missed that, it was the most punchy fun set ive ever played, its like psi melee now only with punches. EM still hits incredibly hard and the set works, but its annoying at times when you corpse bomb your biggest hit.

But it happens, its very cool but it happens. way more eggregious than TW. TW is a well designed set. More than likely brought about by the EM nerf and needing to throw melee a bone.

i actually was probably part of the reason sad to say. because even Castle said something about my test results. its funny, people always said tank damage sucked, i pull out my EM to prove them wrong, next thing i know its, EM is overpowered, now we are back here on Homecoming with tank damage sucks again. lol

Controllers Soloing GMs is out of balance. theres lots of stuff way more out of balance than TW. None of it really breaks the game. Im ok with all of it, it is afterall a super hero game and most of this is made possible by creative IO set building. I think thats working as designed.

Sorry but bringing it down to match another set isnt the answer, the game isnt broken by it by a long shot.

its not breaking the game, so why would ya? and agree to the bottom 2

ok Im doing it wrong then lol ill post numbers again later

how are they calculating DPS now also?

wonder if I miscalculated my TW build then 295 is low compared to that, but im not really setting it up for that either so who knows.

what do brutes normally get?

SO honestly i havent kept up with pylon tests, is 326 on the EM and 295 on the TW good DPS for a brute on either set? Im built for survivabilty first, and also more AOE on the TW.

Ok look partner, Im not afraid of anything, TW isnt even my main, its a fun set though, thats not breaking anything in the game. Kinda like EM was back in the day. the one you are lamenting non stop about, the same one I miss also. I dont want another Knee jerk reaction to any Set, even if this one isnt one thats close to my heart. Its not even third place on my list, its just a neat set to have IMO. TW can be very clunky unless you play it right, and its very prone to making mistakes on it that ruins your attack chain, you have to play that perfectly or it wont work right. That alone takes a certain level of skill and dedication I dont have to run one as a main. They are powerful but not to the point where most people would have the patience to run one. I learned this when i kept getting stuck in animation on the Apex task force and the blue flaming swords of death ate my lunch, didnt matter how good my attack was, i couldnt get to her, and when i did i would get stuck in an animation and get knocked out. Em does need a buff but its not entirely unplayable, just incredible long, and unrewarding when you corpse bomb. but i stand behind what i said about the ST burst damage on EM being better than the TW ST burst damage. EM did play insanely too well back in the day, but there was nothing wrong with that just like there is nothing wrong with TW now. I had one of the best EM tanks on live, and was arguing these same arguments then, people couldnt believe my tank could output that much dps - my tank then could do more dps (it was in the 400s cant remember exactly) than my EM brute now (brute is 326) according to a few tests i just ran, but i proved it to them on a pylon run, next thing i know they are usng the pylon runs to say EM was overpowered. then came the nerf about a year later. My TW brute is around 295 DPS, Em brute is 326. Tests i just ran tonight - all single target.

If you read all my postings on EM even on your thread, you will see how i have always said it still hits hard but lacks the flow and feel of the original. Never hid that, and i havent cooked any numbers to support me on one had and not support me to suit my position. you of all people with your stance on EM shouldnt want to see another decent set nerfed because of what happened to EM. thats borderline hypocritical.

Is 326 DPS good? I honestly dont keep track of DPS since live.

Im trying to calculate my builds DPS, what is the animation times for TW attacks on Momentum?

DO you know the animation time for TW attacks on momentum?