Infinitum

Lol thats coh in a nutshell, always has been. Its still awesomely fun though.

I dont see the power creep problem either honestly, back during and around the EM nerf IMO the game was too hard, you couldnt hardly get through any AV content effectively without a rad present or something like it. Now you can, IMO the current power level you actually feel like a super hero instead of too weak to take out an AV in less than 45 min. Eh, incarnate content isnt what you would call easy, it's not mindnumbingly difficult either, but you have to stay on your toes or you will end up faceplanting a lot. Even maria jenkins missions can be challenging, set to max, unless you have good controller types. Thats what really makes the game easy, it isnt nor has it ever been melee. Melee to be effective doesnt need another round of nerfs. My group plays every night - competing dual task force runs etc all fun stuff but we are never bored or not challengef enough, and most of us are like me setted out to the gills.

Yeah with psi you are always strategically seeking insight thats why you almost always need a mob to mass levitate to gaiin insight almost flawlessly then pop buildup and greater psi blade, psiblade sweep, then greater psiblade again.

My point is just because it isnt widely played isn't a good metric. Because psi melee is what I use to get my old school EM fix in. It reminds me a lot of that only with swords... From your mind.

That's what psi melee is capable of when built right and setted out. add those three damages together and that off one attack - brute psi/Elec. I did even more damage than that another time on a purple fake nem boss but for some reason it won't lwt me upload that picture. Theres a lot of good stuff out there, this one feels the best to me and i think only 200 people rolled one like it according to the FOTM graphs.

Whats the point of ever doing anything high end if its always going to create a target for the set? Who cares about the low end? Thats just a stepping stone to get to the high end. And IOs make a lot of this possible, they basically did GDN and ED just so we could work harder to break the system in many different and interesting ways in the future. TW I think I read somewhere was the live teams consolation for craphammering EM and melee in general back in 2008. So its a correction for melee and a good one that makes it more competitive with the rest of the game honestly. You can also see cool design effects in psi melee with the insight mechanic, which when combined with buildup and Gaussian proc can do unheard of ST damage even by old EM standards. Then the contaminated effect in rad melee is nice, it's just a tad slower feeling than psi melee that's why I switched my main from rad to psi, but rad is still very good. Those 2 are a lot more fun to me than TW, the rest of the sets could be brought back up in a unique way to match these three in different ways. Everyone wins there and melee is still viable and a valid part of the game. You can see an extended effort by the dev team in the later melee sets. Man if they only buff EM I have the melee trifecta then with my 3 main 50s. I have 8 50s total but rad, psi, and hopefully EM will be what I play the most. Well melee play anyway. My grav time is OP feeling also, especially how I built it.

Says you? lol. Whew lightning may strike any minute you better get inside.

Agree with 1. Number 2 is more reason to first buff the other sets still. Number 3 there is still no way to prove what bufffing the other sets will do to TW, but im willing to wager that people with TW currently will still be happy, and people who lile the underperforming sets will be happy also.

1. Personal experience shouldn't matter, at least that's what I've been told in here a thousand times now. Just because it sours other sets for you doesn't mean it is for other people nor is it right to affect other people and their play based on personal preference. Again TW is not a systemic infection that has imbalanced the game making it unplayable. 2. It speaks for itself and I agree, that doesn't indict TW though. 3. There is no way to quantify or prove this - either point. However buffing the sets would make them better, making TW worse 100% will assuredly not make them better.

I wouldnt think so, for me even with follow through ST feels weak (I played with other combos on 2nd build). Thats on a brute though, maybe on a scrapper its different.

It wasn't enough for me to continue playing mine.

I still don't see how it is currently unhealthy for the game to boost the underperforming sets while leaving TW alone. There is nothing in my experience in the game currently that screamed its diseased with imbalance stemming from TW. In fact that never comes up.

Yeah, but I rolled a psi melee stalker and scrapper on beta and fully setted out, guess which one i picked to go live. And then I rolled a psi melee brute also which is now my main replacing my Rad melee brute as my main.

Yep to the point it still stings 11 years later. lol

That's kinda neat whirling smash or better yet AoD could do that much damage. Add in the critical price and That is a melee blaster.

funny you said this also, Pre EM nerf an EM tank could do useful dps - really good actually using the attack chain I posted earlier, I had one, it was better than a lot of Scrappers in fact. Why was EM nerfed? it was mainly stalkers and to a minor extent brutes in PvP from everything I read. Is there any truth to that? Either way, tanks suffered the most with the EM nerf because it was a dps shining star for tanks. After that you had to build SS to increase damage by double stacking rage or Fire to have insane AoEs, but EM was one of the best for tanks. At least tanks are getting some love now. I gave a few ideas on that and am glad I will be able to branch out into the tank world again unfettered soon.

I always looked at the scrappers as the blasters of melee. Scrappers don't really need any sweeping AT changes, criticals are good - even better with procs, they just need a few sets buffed - maybe a few mechanics added into them like psi melee has and stuff like TW to be left alone. Does every TW attack have a chance to crit? And every TW air have a chance to crit multiples?

Seriously, you get it. Thanks thats what I was trying to say too.

I dont want to start threads on it, because ultimately I believe Homecoming will come to the correct conclusion without me telling them what they already know. This is a waste of time on a set most people actually enjoy. I really dont care if the other stuff is fixed either, I have no issue with a controller soloing a GM but by any definition thats really broken. I think melee should shine as bright as the buff debuff game does. I remember arguing till I was blue in the face on live with someone - I cant remember their name - that the buff debuff game would supplant the melee game and whether it is a tank scrapper or brute those all would pale in comparison. I didnt believe them but here we are. It still kinda does but with incarnates, and sets like TW, and bio armor (never played it) have allowed the game to balance again between the various ATs. Balancing the set is one thing. But overall game balance is more important and to continue gimping melee puts the entire game out of balance to where melee becomes dependent on other things to male it work well. Not once has overall game balance come I to question in here but it matters also.

They still need the buff, doing that first makes more people happy than nerfing TW. I dont see in any way how nerfing it would benefit anyone especually if its only slightly better. Like I said there is way more broken things to look at than TW which by any defination is only mildly OP.

Not trolling, same thing happened when EM was nerfed, nobody listened Then, im hoping someone will now. People threw out all kinds of numbers how broken EM was, I told them it would ruin the set. Here we are again, the same spreadsheet warriors are trying to ruin something actually working good for a lot of people in melee. Ignore the actual stuff that is broken in the game lets make what feels super feel less super and leave the broken stuff broken. Makes sense.

Well my build still isnt an issue as far as I'm concerned. But a lot of people on here said it was. 1 I dont play it very often 2 It does exactly what i built it to do. I'm mainly anti nerf, and I still havent seen anything in here earth shatteringly bad to nerf the set. Nothing like what controllers can do for instance, nothing as bad as EM is broken also. There's a lot of other things that could break the game before this will. There was a problem back on live with people not playing melee as much as controller buff/debuff simply because melee couldn't match the performance of the latter. This just doesnt scream doom to me for the game because a set like TW that has a lot of hard to use built in features overperforms under a few extreme fringe build designs that cost a lot and takes time to get. I see what you are saying on Scrappers, and I see what you are saying on bio armor. Those do appear OP when paired with TW but thats hardly an indictment on the set. Becauwe everything else tells me it's only slightly better and that's if you are an experienced TW player - not me obviously. And the biggest issue i have with it is, my psi and rad melee toons exploits every feature those sets offer and those feel OP for sure, way more OP than TW does in fact - all have the exact same defense set, slots, IOs and all. But not everyone can build or will build them that way. I min maxed them in every way to maximize damage, and defensive numbers. I can't help but wonder where will the busy body work end? Will it be those next for you guys cause people will shelve their TW sets then and look for other FotM? I'm not a OP offender on TW so any nerf will nerf mine harder than the builds that are OP, and im sure there are others that will be in the same boat. So again I will concede that when paired with scrapper features, and bio armor it appears OP, but across the board not enough to be arguing for 4 days on it. I would also look at the potential to buff the sets that need help, because even if you did nerf TW that's still not going to fix those. I would look at that first them re evaluate performances and who chooses what later to see how it all shakes out. It's hard to say what is right or wrong, but from a business perspective there will be a lot more negative press with a nerf when there isn't a concrete or immediate need for one, when the time could be spent to fix what is underperforming then recheck later. That would go a long way to appeasing everyone, not because it's easy but sometimes the harder path is the correct one.

Yeah, I'm still not convinced, I can see how on Scrappers under some circumstances it may appear OP, but if you nerf the set as a whole it may not affect AOE performance because that does feel OP single target will suffer especially on builds like mine, ie it will still obliterate the minions but will take even longer on bosses. I cant be the only one that would run into this either. I think the more fair course would be to buff the poorly performing sets. Then see how that impacts the game. Revisit TW at that point.

Thats a good way to describe KM a lot of movement an animation but underwhelming at best.

Im definitely going to check Mace out. At one point it was horrible though right? MA feels pretty good to me, that's kinda surprising its an underperformer. KM also feels decent and plays well but there is something about it I just can't make it work for me.