Infinitum

My main at the moment is a Rad/Elec set up to tank. It is pretty close to unkillabe aside from a lucky 2 shot from Bobcat in Tin Mage Tf and Hamidon in LGTF. I tanked Recluse in Stf, and can survive for hours in the AE fire farm. While my Hybrid incarnate is up nothing can kill it with an emphasis on nothing. It's very fun, the heavy ST attacks are slow but feel very powerful and you have to use strategy in targeting sometimes or you might corpse bomb. Aoe is awesome, and secondary effects are good.. I'll post a build up when I get to a computer.

EDIT: Forgot to actually add a post...yikes...there goes another marble of mine rolling away... I don't feel I need to be penalized for wanting a challenge...It's really easy to just say - well if you don't like something, just don't do it...but that will always depend on context and goals. And who YOU CHOOSE to team with there is over 100k people with multiple characters, I'm sure you can find, build a themed sg with that would meet your goals. It really is that simple and only you control that end. Constantly joining with ultra powered incarnates like myself then griping about how we enjoy playing the game isnt our fault, it's yours when you have many avenues to avoid even seeing what irritates you so bad. you make it sound easier than it is, I havent figured out how to solo any of the AVs ive come across, incarnate content or not. I can survive indefinitely against all but 3 ive faced being Bobcat because she actually 2 shotted my glorious incarnate butt, lord recluse in the STF at full power, and hamidon in LGTF. The people I have seen solo AVs its not an easy task, they still have to rely on many things going right to accomplish it and moreover usually takes a longer than normal time to do it, so teaming actually is optimal for thoae that can solo AVs. I may be able to do it, but don't have the patience to try honestly, because I need a team to make it faster. not true, in early days of the game AVs used to be super easy to beat. Just about any well built SO build could beat most AVs. Not in a drawn out match either more like facing an Elite Boss at current states of the game. They made it incredibly hard overnight in one issue, I cant remember which one, but it was when everyone started building all the /rad troller defender types because you almost had to have a /rad to debufd the AV to bring it down. no, not at all, I could probably solo large portions of task forces like Tin Mage and the ITF, but mainly becausr I'm set up to be highly resistant against those damage types, but even then that's a slog and it is more fun rolling through it with a team. It makes you feel like the unstoppable hero team has arrived and the bad guys shouldnt have considered facing us anyways, then you get to the av part and you have to be a bit more careful, like I said bobcat 2 shotted me one time and then several others after me. But we were facing 4 Ava at once and it was probably about a 10-15 minute fight with just that part. It felt like the final show down. To me thats how the game should feel. Radio missions pffft I dont even do them anymore because they are easy, beneath me now, but thats why there are high level contacts, task forces, and trials which are incredibly fun and rewarding even for a team of iOd out incarnate. I have other characters I play for low level content, and when those get iOd and incarnated out, I'll roll more because the combinations are endless in this game and I literally have 20 characters I have rolled and more poping in my head each day that I want to try. Never once has any super team I have been on trivialized the content for me because ultimately I choose what I play and who I play with.

I swear, that story got me right here (points toward my heart) because I know how that feels. I have stories similar involving a few powers that were changed here and there, the EM Nerf being one of them. Once proud Heroes, no old has-beens because of the nerfs...doing nothing but collecting dust. Right there with you, my main was invul/em, I had it IOd out, tons of game time-I was one that played end game with it more than rolling new ATs. I was so frustrated I quit the game for 2 years because it wasn't fun anymore. I came back and enjoyed it for a few months then it shuttered and I felt awful. I feel like I got a second chance so I'm not going to complain too much. I just can't bring myself to enjoy EM because I'll always have that tingly feeling in my fingertips of how ET used to feel. Funny thing is, that same animation works well on /Rad because of how that set plays as a whole. So my main now is a Rad/ Elec brute. I would roll 3 EM types in a heartbeat and play the crap out of them if they ever reverted this.

+4/x8 with AVs is still a gross simplification of difficulty. +4/x8 Council is a completely different level of challenge from +4/8 Carnies or +4/x8 Vanguard. When we start to have builds that can solo anything at +4/8 (i.e. Superman levels of power), then it's probably time to start looking at maybe nerfing things, but right now we're actually looking at builds that can solo some enemy groups and AVs at +4/8 which is more corresponding to something like Hulk: ridiculously powerful and not unique in their level of power, but not omnipotent. All of this goes to say that having dozens of heroes in Paragon City able to solo at +4/x8 is ok and consistent with most superhero universes, and we haven't yet crossed the line where we have even one player controller Superman running around. Aaand there is that kryptonite thing too. Superman wasnt indestructible

Well how bout this idea, add more difficulty settings. Maybe like +6 and +8 with 16 size. If anyone needed more challenge that would do it.

Speaking from a tanks perspective, How many ordinary people without kryptonite can superman beat? The whole world / worlds probably? If you spend 300+ mil on iOs and can't solo +4/8 s/l or even nrg fire cold and psy you have gone wrong. Guess what on mine toxic can kill me - give one of the billions on the planet a kryptonite gun Super is gone. It's working as intended and there is hugh level content that challenges incarnate, I know because we do it just about every night on excelsior, come see if you wish. You don't fight ordinary people in this game. Everyone you fight is extraordinary in some way...You never have a battle with 200 lvl 0 citizens... As I said, there are MANY problems that Superman can't solve alone, and he needs friends for...And honestly there is only 1 Superman in the DC Universe [well, except for Superboy, Jonathan, Kal-el (who's back), Cyborg Superman, Supergirl, Krypto (okay there isn't really just one)], but the idea still stands that in a city of 80K Superheroes, we can't all be Superman (or Statesman either)...We can get really close, but the game should still have limits for ALL heroes that preclude them from soloing +4/8 with AV's. there was a time before purple triangles you could solo +4 /8 with AVs with just SOs it was actually pretty easy, then came the purple triangles where you almost always had to have a rad to beat an AV. Now I think it's pretty good because with a lot of work, planning and high end builds you can take on an AV solo again. Like I said if that irks you slot SOs and play with other people that wants to spend 10 minutes to hammer 1 lesser AV target down. I like feeling overpowered in my build I spent all the time on and so does the 30 or 40 of us in our coalition. We are playing end game content at high levels and still occassionaly have a team wipe. If you aren't being challenged end game you aren't doing it right. Incarnate should be able to solo +4/8 radio / regular missions. I can't tell you the last time I played a radio mission or regular contact mission. That's why there are Itrial and end game task forces.

Then what's the point of investing weeks of your time planning and striving for sets and incarnate. It's the next level for a reason, normal content shouldn't be hard and if it is you've taken a wrong turn at Albuquerque. I agree that with a proper build, normal content should be pretty easy. But I don’t think that normal content != solo +4/x8. And FYI I have a spine/fire that I play +4/x8. I’m not looking to call for nerfs, but I wouldn’t be too upset if some power sets or ATs were brought down. Someone else mentioned being Superman. I don’t think in this game there was ever the idea for the player to be Superman. Metropolis only needs one Superman and we have thousands of heroes. Invul could solo +4 /8 battle maiden pre IO and incarnate, does that mean invul should have its s/l lowered? Sets allowed you to take invul and resist psy, and all the rest of the damage types better. The whole purpose of IO sets was to allow for the user to work really hard to uber power their character however they would like, or fail and break them. The purpose of incarnate was to become lile statesman which was CoH Superman. If you are bored the measuring stick shouldnt be radio missions, go do an incarnate trial set to +4 or A high level task force other than the ITF on +4. Theres stuff out there that can challenge any team. If you are bored with normal missions with your rricked out incarnate roll another toon. If you are bored with teaming with uber incarnate dont team with them. But dont blame those of us that Want to be uber powered superheroes and think its fun and awesome when there are a ton of other options at your disposal to play your way. Bringing us down isnt the right answer when there are endless avenues to take to avoid what you are talking about.

*If I can solo all the content at +4/x8 and still get that AV at the end without IOs then something might be overpowered. However, soloing that kind of content with enough IO investment just sounds like things are working as intended. Though, I think "ALL" content at +4/x8 is a bit hyperbole. I've yet to see someone do all content equally with ease. You caught me Rylas...It was hyperbole (that's why I added the "I'm not quite there though")... But IMHO, it should be impossible to solo regardless of build/level/IO sets anything at +4/x8. Even Superman has his limits...and sometimes even he needs his friends to help him out. And this is more a philosophical question that we'd all have to get on the same page before we look at solutions to how that would work. If the overwhelming consensus is "no...no...no, I need to be UBER and be able to defeat anything" then it's pointless to debate, because we aren't even in the same mindset to have the discussion. I'm not saying wanting to be UBER is bad or wrong, just for me, it's not fun. I want the challenge. I want to know that even with the best build, there is only like a 5% chance I could solo an AV at +3, and there is no chance, w/o help, that I could do it at +4. That's my mindset...And if we go with my mindset, then we have to include IO's in the discussion. But like I said, if you disagree, you disagree, and that's OK. I think I'm sadly in the minority here, and like 0th power said, I'll still probably play...just won't have quite as much fun... Speaking from a tanks perspective, How many ordinary people without kryptonite can superman beat? The whole world / worlds probably? If you spend 300+ mil on iOs and can't solo +4/8 s/l or even nrg fire cold and psy you have gone wrong. Guess what on mine toxic can kill me - give one of the billions on the planet a kryptonite gun Super is gone. It's working as intended and there is hugh level content that challenges incarnate, I know because we do it just about every night on excelsior, come see if you wish.

Then what's the point of investing weeks of your time planning and striving for sets and incarnate. It's the next level for a reason, normal content shouldn't be hard and if it is you've taken a wrong turn at Albuquerque.

There's a couple of points I would like to give my point of view on in how I view the game in relation to these discussions. First I'm a tank in how I play no matter what AT I'm playing on, it's my play style and personality. Second, I have a brute that I spent a week on designing in mids before I even rolled it out on the game. I spent a lot of game time there after teaming to 50 and beyond, making enough ing to slot him and also learning his deficiencies and outright weaknesses. For me it's fun to put the time into that to build overpowered and unique. It's not easy by any stretch and the average person may not want to put that much time into a build that a tank can do better earlier and also quicker and cheaper in the long run. Third, IOs made much more noticeable differences than incarnate has and I only have 2 purple sets the rest are mostly orange with a few yellow, but it all fits well. Just because its purple doesn't mean it will fit your goal. I used incarnate to make any deficiencies less noticeable and round the build out. Lastly I think we are missing the point a bit about the end game IO and incarnate setup. This is the A team, not the lesser heroes, so destroying bad guy maps is kinda what we do at this point, but also some content can still stop us if not careful, like Bobcat 2 shotting me the other day or hamidon in the lady gray TF causing a group of incarnated out warriors that the rikti to couldnt slow down fits for nearly 45 min (the whole tf took 1:23 min) Weaknesses are still there and its not a matter of usefulness or not its a matter of being a part of it and stepping in when needed because we are heroes and thats what we do, sometimes even superman needs help.

[quote author=Obitus As to the server's condition, I think maybe you're exaggerating just a bit - or maybe you're just way way more hardcore than I am. It costs somewhere around 700-800 million INF, at current prices, to fully trick out a build, and you say you earn that in half an hour? I can do about 100 million per day with casual market games, which take maybe 20 minutes of play time; used to do about double that before I lost interest in logging in multiple times a day - so don't get me wrong, I wouldn't be surprised if what you claim is possible. I do question how relevant your obviously tippy-top-elite marketeering is to a broader discussion about game/AT balance, though. You're clearly an extreme outlier. Same goes for the Incarnate stuff. Less than a day? How many hours of playtime? 800 million to trick out a build? Holy crap what are you putting in there? my Brute took 300 mil and he's close to unkillable and res capped at everything but toxic 54% at toxic too. You are correct though tanks are more fun to level, and not every brute set can rival tank primary sets no matter how you trick them out. Some can with huge investment in time and early on grind and embarrassing defeats, but it passes if you are willing to stick with it and in the end a few sets can be as sturdy as tanks with a lot more damage. But ultimately there is no substitute for tank survivability across the board and the fun they have leveling.

that's what I thought, thanks for the confirmation.

I can get melee up to 80-90ish but is it with it?

Three questions about Bobcat in the Tin Mage TF 1. for the most part I'm resistance capped except for toxic which is 54% 34% melee defense this guy is largely unkillable. Does Bobcat routinely 1 or two shot tankers or brutes of this caliber? I'm talking full health and no time to even respond, I had rebirth and energize ready to go but I was down before I knew what happened. 2. I tanked Lord Recluse solo for 2 minutes without any support and while he hit hard, not that hard also tanked Romulus with no issues.. What mechanic allowed this from Bobcat? 3. What can someone do to mitigate this? Thanks!

I've read a lot on this, I know the soft cap is 45%. At what point over that is extra overkill when it comes to defensive value? I've always built primarily for resist and wanted to try something new. Thanks!

I have the same set, I went with superior conditioning and physical perfection. I also six slotted chaeged armor, tough, weave, rad siphon, devestating blow, atomic blast, lightning field. I 5 slotted the rest of the armies and went with contaminated strike vs smashing becuase its faster and combined with boxing it builds fury really fast. 6 slot and 5 slot for more set bonuses on important powers and armors. I put three unique in grounded. I 4 slotted power sink, but honestly I use it more to drain the enemies endurance than to refill mine, I dont really have end issues.

This is what mine looks like now that i have made a few edits and have really broken into the incarnate content Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 2.22 http://www.cohplanner.com/ Click this DataLink to open the build! Turbo Infinitum: Level 50 Science Tanker Primary Power Set: Fiery Aura Secondary Power Set: Fiery Melee Power Pool: Flight Power Pool: Leaping Power Pool: Speed Power Pool: Fighting Ancillary Pool: Pyre Mastery Hero Profile: Level 1: Fire Shield (A) Aegis - Resistance/Endurance (3) Aegis - Resistance/Recharge (19) Aegis - Psionic/Status Resistance (23) Aegis - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge (27) Aegis - Endurance/Recharge (33) Aegis - Resistance Level 1: Scorch (A) Accuracy IO Level 2: Healing Flames (A) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance (3) Doctored Wounds - Endurance/Recharge (5) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Recharge (5) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance/Recharge (7) Doctored Wounds - Heal (7) Doctored Wounds - Recharge Level 4: Fly (A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points) Level 6: Blazing Aura (A) Scirocco's Dervish - Accuracy/Damage (15) Scirocco's Dervish - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance (36) Scirocco's Dervish - Damage/Endurance Level 8: Consume (A) Performance Shifter - EndMod (11) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End (13) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Recharge Level 10: Combustion (A) Multi-Strike - Accuracy/Damage (15) Multi-Strike - Damage/Endurance (19) Multi-Strike - Damage/Recharge (36) Multi-Strike - Accuracy/Endurance (37) Multi-Strike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance (37) Multi-Strike - Damage/Endurance/Recharge Level 12: Plasma Shield (A) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance (13) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance (17) Unbreakable Guard - Endurance/RechargeTime (23) Unbreakable Guard - RechargeTime/Resistance (34) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance/RechargeTime (40) Impervium Armor - Psionic Resistance Level 14: Combat Jumping (A) Karma - Knockback Protection Level 16: Hasten (A) Recharge Reduction IO (17) Recharge Reduction IO Level 18: Temperature Protection (A) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All) (43) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3% Level 20: Build Up (A) Adjusted Targeting - Recharge (21) Adjusted Targeting - To Hit Buff/Recharge (43) Adjusted Targeting - To Hit Buff/Endurance/Recharge Level 22: Boxing (A) Accuracy IO Level 24: Tough (A) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance (25) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance (25) Unbreakable Guard - Endurance/RechargeTime (34) Unbreakable Guard - RechargeTime/Resistance (43) Impervium Armor - Psionic Resistance Level 26: Fiery Embrace (A) Recharge Reduction IO (27) Recharge Reduction IO Level 28: Fire Sword Circle (A) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Accuracy/Damage (29) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Damage/RechargeTime (29) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Accuracy/Damage/RechargeTime (31) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime (31) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime (31) Superior Gauntleted Fist - RechargeTime/+Absorb Level 30: Weave (A) Shield Wall - Defense/Endurance (33) Shield Wall - Defense/Recharge (33) Shield Wall - Endurance/Recharge (34) Shield Wall - Defense/Endurance/Recharge (37) Shield Wall - Defense (42) Shield Wall - +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All) Level 32: Burn (A) Multi-Strike - Accuracy/Damage (36) Multi-Strike - Damage/Endurance (42) Multi-Strike - Damage/Recharge (50) Multi-Strike - Accuracy/Endurance (50) Multi-Strike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance (50) Multi-Strike - Damage/Endurance/Recharge Level 35: Ring of Fire (A) Accuracy IO Level 38: Greater Fire Sword (A) Superior Might of the Tanker - Accuracy/Damage (39) Superior Might of the Tanker - Damage/Recharge (39) Superior Might of the Tanker - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge (39) Superior Might of the Tanker - Damage/Endurance/Recharge (40) Superior Might of the Tanker - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge (40) Superior Might of the Tanker - Recharge/Chance for +Res(All) Level 41: Fire Blast (A) Decimation - Accuracy/Damage (42) Decimation - Damage/Endurance (46) Decimation - Damage/Recharge (48) Decimation - Chance of Build Up (48) Decimation - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge (48) Decimation - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge Level 44: Fire Ball (A) Javelin Volley - Chance of Damage(Lethal) (45) Javelin Volley - Accuracy/Damage (45) Javelin Volley - Damage/Recharge (45) Javelin Volley - Damage/Endurance/Recharge (46) Javelin Volley - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge (46) Javelin Volley - Accuracy/Damage/End/Rech Level 47: Hover (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed Level 49: Afterburner (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed Level 1: Brawl (A) Empty Level 1: Gauntlet Level 1: Prestige Power Dash (A) Empty Level 1: Prestige Power Slide (A) Empty Level 1: Prestige Power Quick (A) Empty Level 1: Prestige Power Rush (A) Empty Level 1: Prestige Power Surge (A) Empty Level 1: Sprint (A) Celerity - +Stealth Level 2: Rest (A) Empty Level 4: Ninja Run Level 2: Swift (A) Run Speed IO Level 2: Health (A) Numina's Convalesence - +Regeneration/+Recovery (9) Miracle - +Recovery (21) Regenerative Tissue - +Regeneration Level 2: Hurdle (A) Jumping IO Level 2: Stamina (A) Performance Shifter - EndMod (9) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End (11) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Recharge Level 50: Pyronic Radial Final Judgement Level 50: Vanguard Core Superior Ally Level 50: Resilient Core Paragon Level 50: Rebirth Radial Epiphany Level 50: Degenerative Core Flawless Interface Level 50: Melee Core Embodiment ------------

If you want to invest more time influence and struggle in early on survivability go brute because late game most brute sets you can rival tank survivability with a ton more damage capability by investing heavily in sets. I know because I tanked Recluse with my Rad/Elec brute without any troubles even making a mistake and charging in while the team took out the flyer so I was toe to toe for a good while my mistake lol i missed the part about taking out the flyer.. I also spent around 200 million on sets. If damage isn't as much of a concern go tank it has an easier and cheaper road for survivability. As far as agro goes tanks are better out of the box, but with a damage aura, judgement incarnate and good aoe, agro isn't an issue with most brute sets either.

Triple Fire all the way. Fiery embrace + build up + sets = unkillable bulldozer on crack with a 360° flamethrower.

Yeah toxic set bonuses alone won't get you there, I am about 30% res to toxic, a whole lot of regen and a good portion of defense combined with recharge for energize and power sink nuking their endurance you can mitigate it pretty well. I am just now getting incarnate stuff for it but it's pretty durable now.

how did you find that data in pines, cause it isn't showing in mine, and I thought I had the most current version.

Impervious Skin status resistance unique, all the info I find on it says it's just status protection, however in game now it also says +regen by the name and also says applies moderate regen in the description. Was this a recent modification, and how can we get numbers if it is?

Addendum to Electric Armor - Toxic is the main weakness, followed be neg nrg. Toxic will straight up kill you until you mitigate it with sets.

I have a Elec/kinetic tank and its very fun. Very fast and punchy feeling because even though the animations aren't short they flow good and make it feel good. I think it doesn't get a lint of attention because it just doesn't stand out good or bad.

That's what I thought, it was worded like it could increase HP. Has anyone seen the impervious skin status resistance unique? It also says Status resistance +regen. I can't find anything about regen anywhere and Pines pretends it doesn't add to regen when you slot it.