Infinitum

It would be great on either, but IMO Elec armor on a brute puts you in the sweet spot where on a tanker it is slightly overkill.

Some people go high recharge and run BF-AS-SS-AS on Scrappers which people say is great. Plus seems like I remember the db combo system was buffed recently also.

It's good on Brute's but IMO better on Scrappers and Stalkers. There again that all depends on the pairing with it.

I missed this part, at some point I would suggest EM/EnA for unparalleled combination durability and ST dmg output. It is giddy fun to watch hard targets melt. EnA works well with EM on any AT. I also have a Kat/EnA that is fun.

My favorites are anything /electric armor and anything/rad armor. Both are very very stout and can take just about anything the game can throw at them. And add the dmg a brute is capable of throwing out and it is pretty impressive.

I see what you are saying, but I disagree slightly. The Tanker ATO really makes a difference on other damage types when you are a set that normally can't reach the cap easily - like en/neg, f/c on an invul - and others that build the same way. Is there another way to do it better perhaps? Maybe but I am satisfied with how it currently is. The Brute ATO - not so much.

I nominate @Sovera for being the most level headed through and through. And for having the cute kitten pic as an avatar (I love cats) mine is part maine koon and a big lovable furball.

So you are saying is - the kitten in your avatar is YOU! It's a dastardly feline plot!

I haven't changed any of what I have said regarding this sad old equine the entire year we keep coming back to it with the wooden melee utensil.

A blaster, scrapper, stalker nothing other than a tanker can control agro better than the Brute will - throw in team buffs that overcap everything else and then you have a killing machine that will bring a level of dmg and efficiency no other AT would be able to. This was already discussed in this very thread and it is a combination that many teams are running with on hard mode TFs because it is efficient. So no, it isnt a moot point in theory or practice. Partner, I am not disputing this - in fact look back. I brought it up in this thread l. See. Page 2 or 3 on this thread. Not disputing that either - I also disagree with this because if you truly dissect this issue down they are holding on to an imbalance that shouldn't exist. Well I am sorry that was not self explanatory enough for you not to glean that is what my description meant. Yes you are correct. You in fact do need a buffer to bring those values up on a team. Ok so get set bonuses - without procs and other set bonuses like recharge the tanker likewise will not be treading as heavily into damage territory. With set bonuses you CAN make a brute as durable as a tanker in everything but hard mode content - and in most cases there even the tanker needs team support. I would be more than happy to demonstrate any one of my 10 Brute's to you that this is fact. Nice try - there was no back peddling especially on a team was for emphasis that at the end of the day the gripe doesn't .matter because the only thing that will kill a brute would be teamed content anyway because there isn't much use to soloing or trying to solo hard mode content. And if you are looking to solo decisively hard content with any AT brute included then you actually want imbalance - not balance. Nice try here also, there is no bending of facts coming from my direction - because what I am saying including Potential buffing of brutes is based on me actually testing multiple scenarios - rather than lamenting "how it used to be"

Please tell me how that's anything but factual. I'm sure you know this but Tankers and Brute's have the same res/def caps. Once you hit or surpass that doesn't matter which one you are playing. especially when teamed. Tell me how that isn't true. Or maybe @Erratic1 can post another meme that can't change that fact or that has no bearing on this. Nope Because literally every week a new "tankers can't contribute to the team" thread would pop up. And honestly if you ever played a tanker on a Dr Kahn TF or something similar pre buff without any other significant dmg dealer on the team - good luck with that. Tankers did need a damage buff and the one they got just put them closer to Brute territory - and anyone that has tested this can verify that and also that it hasn't surpassed brute damage - nor should it anymore than Brutes should go back to their pre tanker patch level of dominance.

They already do - especially when teamed. And while the tanker ATO proc may be overkill that isn't the underlying issue - the issue is that the Brute ATO proc sucks compared to every other melee ATO proc out.

You have nothing to explain - I get your point - I just see it as hyperbolic and wrong. It's hard to claim you want balance on one hand when the balance you are referring to is Bruteland where they are dominating the landscape with superior dmg and tanker level mitigation. That's not balance.

Just stop - you know it was when brutes made it to where it could fill both the role of scrapper and tank... At the same time. Low risk. High reward. Hell, for that matter it still kinda does that - tankers are just capable dmg wise now and can join the party. Otherwise you wouldn't have your feelings hurt right now - back to the "they" comment.

It wasn't a rant - it is a logical assessment about the positioning of the melee ATs - and how they were before. Three categories 1. Survival 2. Damage - in a lot of cases surpassing scrapper and blaster damage. 3. Risk vs Reward - Lower risk than the above because of #1 And stow the "you are being condescending" talk - you already made your intentions known to start a thread to watch the world burn without putting skin in the game - oil on canvas right? - I was merely addressing your complaint and showing how it isn't justified unless you want to go back to a system that really was unbalanced. It's right in line with people complaining about a patch without actually testing what is in the patch to contribute whether the patch contents work or not.

Putting it into Brute territory isn't a bad thing - in fact Brute's already played in Tanker territory in terms of mitigation but also blaster and scrapper in terms of damage output - often (and rather easily) surpassing those two classes in dmg output. We had it all in Brute's and it was uncontested. It seems to me that is what is being held to here but that is not realistic for one AT to be able to dominate 3 categories. Furthermore as it stands right now scrappers and Stalkers are the same aside from one being an open killer and one being a silent assassin - both outputting the best damage. Brute's approach scrapper territory in terms of damage - tankers in terms of mitigation but surpasses neither (and that is ok). Tankers approach brute damage but doesn't surpass it tankers also has the best mitigation. Aside from a few tweaks I don't know how it could be more balanced than that - going back to brutes brainlessly roflstomping everything surpassing every other ATs dmg and pacing tanker survivability is not realistic. Would you rather Tankers give up the AOE for greater single target damage - virtually switching the field with Brutes? Because I would be ok with that - but brutes having it all should not be the case. They should be we. Because this is not City of Brutes - and Brute's are still awesome. They, interesting word. Everyone has access to them also. This is the Toy Story mentality I spoke of earlier. Don't worry Woody you are still awesome and save the day just as many times as Buzz. Spot on, but I believe the procs would mean more and be more versatile than the bonuses.

My ranking reflects the changes actually. Bio, Shield, and Invul are all still top notch IMO. On sets like invul and Energy Aura you have to use target prioritization to make sure something nasty doesn't catch you off guard, but even then with the toxic and psi buff it's a solid consistent performer.

Missing the point - what you say is true but if the player is capable it will expedite the TF further

It does when the player is capable

Ie. Git gud. *Snicker* Too soon?

Right, that ship has sailed - which overlap IMO isn't bad. I have fun on my Brutes - I love the way they still melt everything they face - especially boss and higher. No other AT gives you that kind of sense of power wrapped in tanker esque security. I also love my tankers - I love knowing that in just about every engagement - I will not fall. I do not worry with kill speed because they will not drop me.

I think the ATO is a must because it truly is crap - unless Fury was altered to do more even if it comes as a greater cost to need to workaround - at least give us the chance to work around it. But the days of brutes outdamaging blasters and scrappers with no cost should never return.

I know the answer to this. First part: verifyably no Second part: they make Bill's face twitch better than a brute does. See what I mean - that's at least 5 cheek clicks and a neck jerk there.

That is completely not true - in fact there is recent precedent when it was found invul and other typed defense based sets were found to be more vulnerable to the typed defense tag change - the extra mitigation was added in NEXT DAY. In the early days of the tanker patch testing - CPH reverted part of it until it was demonstrated the reversion was worse than the original setup with gauntlet - it was re reverted the next day. There are plenty of other changes also that they listened on especially if you actually do the tests and show your work instead of blanket complaining like this thread with no professed goal - in the OPs own words.

Kinda hard to respect that to be 100% honest with you.