Infinitum

I was dismissive in my last post, let me explain. My view is the game has a high functional level of play at this point in time that is refocusing the balance point. TW exceeded it and was brought down - IMO a little too much. Scrappers Stalkers Tankers even Brute's are all balanced pretty well on this make believe line - Brute's need a little work-not much but I would start with the ATO. The whole balance line at this point is based on power creep - that should not trend higher than where it is IMO - but you can't start yanking elements down unless you are going to do it for everything - and there are way more egregious outliers than the melee class ATOs.

So that is the power creep in this game you are worried about? Heh

Wrong. You don't make others worse. You bring what's bad to their level. Especially the scrapper ATO, but the tanker one also. Those need to be extrapolated to the Brute ATOs so they will have awesome ATOs also.

I was explaining my goal is not to fix the AT. I agree with you Brute's aren't broken, but could use different ATOs. You obviously haven't. lol please see above.

No, lol resistance increasing as the HP bar decreases is literally how it works for SR. I don't think Brute's need a hard fix just tweaks like ATO revamps to give it a more solid identity. Go back and read any one of the hundreds of posts the last year or two on it. That's why.

Go back and read my suggestion. See. It was a two part suggestion one ATO tied to mitigation. One side tied to dmg - fitting since Brutes are between tankers and scrappers. Paid for balance through the hp bar. Let's revisit this quote one more time - that is exactly what SR is based on now - the best defenses in the game - with resistance values that increase as the HP bar dips. This combination makes SR arguably the best, but unequivocally one of the best sets in the game. I can personally attest to my SR characters - tankers and Brute's getting to ~20% health in +4/8 and I could literally leave the room make and eat a sandwich and it still be sitting there when I got back. If Brutes have a survivability issue this would help correct that. The other ATO will increase damage to crazy levels with the same cost. The risk involved is burst dmg could potentially overcome the sliding scale. But worth it in the grand scheme of things.

That will be the hardest for most to accept.

SR says hello. But I get what you are saying also. But calling it a failed mechanic is not entirely accurate when SR masters it.

But, supposedly Brute's have trouble surviving. That's what I was basing that idea on. If that is not the case...

IMO - doesn't matter if it gets the job done better than it currently does. Not dying is not dying - doesn't matter if you have 1% ho or 100% You are also entitled to that opinion however incorrect it may be 😀

That is what my suggestion was also - I think it fits thematically.

That may be true, it was an attempt to veer brutes close to where they used to be dmg wise while imposing a penalty to get them there - because there would need to be some applicable penalty to offset and justify the huge dmg increase - plus it reflects IMO how Brute's in comics work - the more you hurt them the stronger you get - and with the one increasing def+res it would eventually take the effect how SR operates - HP bar to 20% then just sit there and laugh. Agree 100%

Go back - read what I said - it is my opinion. I know they are good - but I don't like them, I think they are crap - for what I like to do. Just an opinion. Corruptors are more of what I like to do - the added control/debuffing is what makes the difference in my personal preference and play style - but even there I think I have 4 corruptors, 12 Controllers, 1 Sentinel, 1 Defender I have not explored yet, and 2 Masterminds I deslotted. Melee is my preference. I digress neither here nor there.

I have never hidden that opinion - do a search - I get to that point at least twice a day here lately. Heh That's just verifiably false. Personally - and I don't mean to insult anyone (this is my opinion) I think blasters are crap. I literally have 1 blaster among 100+ characters. That isn't to say other people aren't artists with them - I get it - it just isn't for me. I truly believe you are hanging on to what was - and what can never be again with Brutes. If you want City of Broken Brute's back - you just aren't going to get that wish, and need to let it go. We are trying to discuss meaningful tweaks to solidify the Brute niche better without letting them permanently regain better than blaster damage status with tanker mitigation caps. If you think that was ever fair - you are simply flat wrong there.

Nobody said it wasn't good enough for the tanker. I think it's just fine. And it isn't being disingenuous or uninformed. My point - which I have tested and proven is that Brute AOE still does more damage than tanker AOE, but hits less but comes out ahead when there are multiple heavy targets. That's it nothing more nothing less and that's why "way more" is a stretch. If anything it was a nice landing where it needed to be.

Way more is a stretch. Tankers hit more but Brute's AOE still has more dmg output per mob hit. In the end of you are AOEing a group of bosses a brute will still beat a tanker in clear time.

But if you think about it deconstructed - that's the beauty of it - since Brutes can't directly reach tanker mitigation levels, they do have the cap to do so. So in theory a brute pushing the envelope will always take more damage than a tanker until these procs kick in - and the strength of the set will not matter because say it's fiery aura - you already have more dmg capability than Invul so you can push that envelope faster because you will take more damage than an invul brute by design the result being you need to kill faster as a force of dmg being mitigation at that point. The invul on the other hand would have more of a tanky approach and gradual curve towards the ramped up dmg and mitigation. You also could drop a shield to allow an invul - or any set allow more dmg in - or even design your build in a way to target the sweet spot of balancing your health around hitting the increased dmg and survivability curve But either way the outcome is the same the brute matches tanker survivability at that point with increased damage to boot - it is organic based on which set you play which is the deconstructed beauty of it - all ending up at the same place. Not trying to sell you on my idea either - just explaining how it would address the concern of brutes not matching tanker mitigation levels while also giving any brute unmatched dmg output but at a price for both so it would be balanced - kinda like how SR works with it's scaling res which is where my idea stemmed from.

My idea - I would tie both to the HP bar. For one the lower your health gets the more def and res you get - pick the categories to make it balanced and sort out the specifics. For the other the lower your health gets the more dmg you do. That's like hulk get mad... Smash. I do like the idea of bringing recharge and run speed in like @Spaghetti Betty mentioned - that is unique fresh and cool.

Love this idea

Good stuff all around keep the discourse going.

I was bored

Ok, since nobody else would, I will take the hit. The Brute ATO while having great set bonuses has severely limited ATO procs when compared to the rest of the melee classes. Please discuss options - suggestions or tell me I am wrong even. 😀

I am relatively new to both Bio and SM - so if anyone can offer a better solution or constructive tweaks - would be awesome - I am currently at work but will definitely take a look at this when I get home.

If brutes had gotten that ATO there would have been 0 reasons to play tankers as a result. Now Brute's need an equally useful ATO and call it a day. I would probably have one that procs defense and one that procs resistance in some creative way - and maybe even tie current fury/health/dmg to it also

Yeah, I get it - but to not confuse the matter overkill is when the tanker is sitting at 100+ on every res value but neg and toxic where the brute comes in slightly above 90 on most. With 90 being the cap - Both will perform identical in that situation with the brute having better damage and the tanker having better aoe.