Infinitum

Well you were on the right track now you are off it again.

Members of my super group as many as can make it is going to gather in Atlas Park at 10pm Eastern tonight to raise the torch and commemorate being back. I don't know how many will be on but I will be there. 🙂 Anyone is welcome to join us and spend a few moments to celebrate being back.

Now you are on the right track, late game all the ATs kinds start blurring together in what they can do, survive, damage etc. All that its dependant on is how much time and influence you want to spend on any given AT.

Thats actually how I view what they are doing here. Both are unique but at the samr time you cant reinvent the wheel with an established class in place. Because, they both share the role of main tank ability. While you can tank with other ATs these are the two that are best suited to accomplish that end. The differentiation is how they both approach mobs tanks more minion stomper aoe agro control, brutes more controlled build up to single hard target demolisher with single target agro control. The adaptation and playstyle is different yet accomplishes the same goal. These changes will just allow the tanks to rise up a bit to brute levels, while the brute levels are lowered a bit so scrappers, blasters, stalkers etc will be the premier dps classes.

what time does that TT start?

Yeah so I went elec armor crazy for a few months. lol

I prefer my Shield SJ tank over my psi Elec brute my rad Elec brute my TW Elec brute my energy Elec brute and my Scrappers too. It's that fun. Its the character I always wanted to play., and I rolled it just to make a cap America clone. I got so much more than that. lol

I seriously think you deserve a medal for all this even if I don't get the desired result.

Don't make me bring worf into this.

Not been following the thread I see. 1. Brutes will still have higher dps than tanks except on fringe weird cases. 2. Tanks already tank better than anything, these changes basically bring them in line with the format of the game increasing damage, radius and arcs, so they are more fun to play and less tedious to level. Basically giving you a 2 AT tank class that accomplishes the same goal by different means. Reducing brutes res caps will do nothing but turn them into sluggish Scrappers because their attacks are slower to build fury to a level - which still won't surpass scrapper damage even at max. Reducing res caps to 80 will double the incoming damage making brutes that main tank like mine unusable at that point. Reducing res caps will also eliminate a crap ton of set bonuses already chosen to hit a certain res level, and not to mention incarnate picks like resilient alpha and melee core - which if you are at vet level 100 how do you easily replace those at that point? And then you have hybrid or defense based brutes that reducing the res cap won't affect at all so you in essence would push the entire player base to that segment because you would still have the same problem because there is no way to lower the defense soft cap without doing it across all Ats. Then you have in essence nerfed the game out if existence. Congratulations on that. Finally, tanks bloom earlier than brutes, brutes take a choice and heavy investment to reach tank level survivability, tanks can do the same almost with common IOs on equivalent armor sets. But in the end the proposed changes just gives the tanker AT the same choice to build for more damage or survivability, the same choice the brute has, because you can't have both and still excel.

Incarnate shifts count in DA too right? That may be it, because that the only place I've been playing lately aside from exemplaring down to where I don't have foot stomp anyway. This isn't one I play a lot, for a few reasons, but I didn't even think about the level shifts. The KB is like baby kb even with avalanche, just noticeable to where hmm it never did that before. I never had incarnate on live.

On second thought I think i will just deal with the KB because what i have here is about as sturdy as i can get it i think. Cant have it all sometimes. Infinitum - Tanker (Invulnerability).mxd

Did you see the part about foot stomp KB with oblit slotted in? I know aval. Has a proc but if it's going to do it anyway may as well use the better set right?. But that's a good look you got there putting blistering cold in ko blow the ato in footstomp. So there was no kb when you did that? Would that also increase the chance of +res by being in footstomp because it hits multiples? I have since redesigned slightly and 6 slotted jab put contaminated strike in it I want it there because jab fires more frequently to get the hold. Now what I may do is put touch of death in KO blow, move the ATO to footstomp and save the avalanche for another toon. Just when you think you are done. lol Still doesn't explain the kb on oblit in footstomp.

well, again the point isnt so much as to whether or not it can sustain TW, but where it puts TW in line with the other sets. this is to get a baseline of how the melee sets compare, so if you cherry pick every set that can run TW without issue there isnt much point in testing anything else. However if you run a set that is demanding - and just because a armor set is demanding doesnt make it bad - it will show you how a demanding set like TW falls into line with the other melee sets on a demanding armor set. thats why i want to see how it acts on other armor sets without end management compared to other melee sets. Its a valid point to see how it acts with a set without end management like dark or SR - when compared to the other melee sets. GB has done a great job so far, above and beyond what i would even have the time to do, but without a comparative on the other end of the spectrum it wont mean as much.

I think it should be SR or dark, both are insanely survivable, but heavy on end use. It would give you the cross metric as to how each set works/performs under stress. Elec, rad and fire would all be similar choices with a click heal and end siphon but honestly aside from the clicks breaking up the attack chain will not feel much different from willpower. It might be neat to see how the clicks powers disrupt attack chains and flow, but I don't think any of them are the polar opposite of willpower. SR or dark is what I would go with.

well i dont know how accurate mids descriptions are but foot stomp is listed as KB and it does it. shield charge is listed as KD and thats what it does. why am i the only one seeing it on foot stomp no idea lol. it almost reminds me the other night when i messed a bind up and i would shield charge everytime i would jump and have a target friend or foe.

here is my current build after i swapped avalanche back in foot stomp. Im still playing around with this one so dont critique it too bad im not finished with it yet. Infinitum - Tanker (Invulnerability).mxd

I'm at work so I will try to go from memory. Yeah I'm level shifted, basically i have ko blow slotted with might of the tanker. Haymaker with the other ATO Jab with blistering cold I had avalanche in foot stomp but kb was worse with that so I switched to oblit, it still did it so what the heck I put avalanche back in. The resist sets including tough have unbreakable guard The defense sets have shield wall. I think dull pain has preventive Rage has gaussians. I will post a build later, And yes.... Yes they do.

Well, I'd need to see the build to answer that accurately. But just about anything is better than PS. With contaminated strike, atom smasher, devestating blow, radiation siphon - that's all you really need for attacks anyway.

Its slow, doesnt do enough damage, cone so tight its rare to hit more than one. Very underwhelming feeling.

Yeah I agree with that with SR, but also wouldnt mind seeing it paired with invul.

Willpower, radiation, bio, fire, elec, energy, regen are the only ones that have reliable end management. The others do in the form of the T9 with a crash, some severe than others. Invul, shield, sr - all only have T9 crashers with + recovery. Ice has hibernate Stone has nothing Dark has nothing.

Most people would agree that /dark, invul, or SR are great defensive sets. Especially if you consider SR puts you in a category where you are as survivable as a tank or brute. It's not a problem with the armor or the attack set. But the synergy. If you can only tolerate to play TW on the sets that feed it does that really make it the best or an outlier when you can play X on everything and it's even across the board? Even on /Elec it was hard IMO until you got power sink. I know a few people that dropped it because they couldn't get along with the quirks of it. In the endgame Elec is a great set to run TW. Just as SR, invul, and dark are great armor sets. You wouldn't want any of those toned down in survivability just to add more end management features though. If only a handful of sets can yield a good result does that still make it an outlier when X number of sets can't run it especially when it's barely an outlier on a set that supports it?

That's kinda what you need to see though, how something like TW will compare with a set that will starve it vs other sets. If you keep feeding what it needs you won't ever see if it's end hunger outweighs its capabilities across the board. We know it's the best hands down if you build for it with sets that facilitate its needs, but how does it compare when a defense set kicks its butt and starves it or has no management that facilitates it? Will it still outpace other sets? Or is it even worth taking on some sets?