Golden Azrael

I'm less 'SO' hardcore than I used to be. I didn't build out until I was L50. But, it aint 2003 anymore. So I will 'intervene' with Fighting Pool, CJ and the 'obvious' (to me but not beginner Tanks) Uniques such as the Global Defence IOs. Steadfast. Gladiator. That's 5%, 2.5%, 3%, 3% = 13.5% And that's without spending a fortune on a pimped out purple build costing several hundreds of millions. (That's the beauty of tanks. You can with SOs, your Primary and some auxillary powers become a 'god'. You pretty much are out of the box. But yes, with a full build out you can take it to the next dimension.) vs just getting a smack on the chops with 28% S*L on a Stone Tank or Electric Tank. I love seeing the evolution of Tanks from choosing their Tier 1 Primary right up to all the other power choices and what each layer gives you. You can tell as they're added to the mix. (As someone who used to specalise in adding TOs for end reduction...every ounce is weighed.) Useful for any beginner or vet' to know. It's entirely possible to come to such 'pearls of wisdom' late in your CoH playing career or these 'not being obvious' to new players. And yes, I've started, recently to patch those lower S*L resistance tanks with Shield Wall 'as I level' rather than suffering the entire 'Iron Man' Challenge all the way to L50 like I useta. My build outs tend to start SOs then add some IOs, add more then a fuller built out as I reach L50. If I was a new player? I'd use SOs until L20-ish then fit general IOs for 'little cost' which will give future cost savings avoiding the upgrade fees. (I've been too lazy to do this on my last ten Tanks though.) The new player who is 'SO' only whilst learning the game might be intrigued to know how just a few Uniques and the Tanking AT sets can add so much to the Tanking Cake. That said, Erratic, what would be your Tanking 'Top 3' or Top Ten for Beginners? Which is your favourite Tank and why? If I was a new player, which one do I go for? Any? Azrael.

Tanks are about layers. Each layer you have makes a difference. I wouldn't discount the Fighting Pool for the Beginning Tanker. As I posted above, I can tell the difference. If you put two end reds in Tough or Weave. You notice the end drain less. And you get the benefits of a decent chunk of S*L resistance that any Stone or Electric Armour Tank would benefit from. Sure, a Luck inspire can give you significant reach but it is only temporary. To any beginner Tank I'd always recommend keeping a full inspire tray of areas of 'weakness' the Tank has eg. Stamina or Defence for example. Built Out vs SOs. There is a difference. As we know. And the Tank doesn't start with IOs or Build Outs. I might mention it here and there, as it is important that that the newcomer knows the difference. Azrael.

Aye. Those were the days. Azrael.

But even 'Cheap' Tanks r Gud. 😉 Out of the Box. Azrael.

I can say that having Weave and CJ on all made a big difference on all my Tanks. And it is noticeable. Plus, if you pop a single small luck it gives you what I call, 'reach.' It all goes into the melting pot of mitigation. Damage Tiks. Defence. Debuffs. Resistance. Health. Aborbs. Tier 9s. Even without build outs. This all adds up to you taking a beating supreme. So a beginner Tank needn't think it's Defence or Resistance (don't start folks :D) Rather it's a cake with many layers of mitigation. eg. Debuff such as slow, an Ice Mat, a damage tik, Taunt, and yes, Health, HIt Points and Absorbs. Each Tank does it differently. And how you design your tank is up to you. There is optimisation as a levelling ('Iron Man Challenge') Tank and it's something else with built outs. So, yes. SO levelling 'out of the box' Tank. Not the same as having a fully built out Tank. But we're talking about two different things here. Ofc. Each dollop of defence you adds up. Caveat, providing you watch your difficulty level on the mission so that Bosses and mobs can't 'peer' over your defence with a step ladder. Azrael.

Well, true. It's not 2003 anymore. Ofc. And we are on a 'P2W' server which has quality of life additions that were absent from the Live Server. Would I walk those back? That's a debate for another time. But I have a friend who insists on levelling like it is. He was in the CoH Beta. So, I can kind of get where he's coming from. Weird? Well. It was that way before IOs were introduced. A bit of background to me. I was late to IOs on live. I didn't consider them mainstream or relevant. 'That's what the expert' players did. But I did come to IOs in the last year of live. And I've gotten better with them, builds and playing the market since Home Coming. After you build ten tanks in a row. You kind 'a' pick things up. I got into the game a few months after my friend who was in the Beta. (The bugger didn't tell me he was in it. He kept that secret...) So now, I will use IOs (and have in all my Tank builds based on fellow luminaries expertise.) But I played them as levelling SOs 1st. And to me, that's the Tank in its purest form. Azrael.

True. But what is 'respectable' resists for the beginner Tank? (They might need to know that...ofc.) And by 'getting there?' What you do mean? SOs? IO build outs? 3rd party tertiary power combinations? What does the beginner Tank need to 'get there?' Azrael.

Barrier? Build Outs? (Edit. Ah. 'Alpha Barrier.' Not 'Barrier' incarnate. But I'll let the rest of my post stand. As there is a difference between SO 'Out of the Box' tanks and IO build outs and Incarnates.) Any 'out of the box' starter AT Tanks doesn't have access to all that. Just as 'any B****' can be 'built' with IO recipes to be 'better' than a poorly built Tank. Any resistance based beginner Tank levelling with SOs would be well advised to take Fighting Pool with Tough's S*L Resistance. And the positional/global defence from Weave to deflect any damage before it needs resisting. Of course, any argument with the black arts of IOs and Incarnates post L50 are a different matter. But as pre-issue 4 Veteran, I'm largely dismissive of IOs, Recipes, Incarnates and Build Outs. Though, of course, I do use them. And for any 'new to Tanker' or new to CoH and Tanker players. They are still useful to the 'Which Tank is Best?' debate for those that want to take their 'god' to the next level. Azrael. Edit.

Another caveat. This thread is aimed at Starter and Levelling SO Tanks not 'build outs' whether they they be 'normal' or otherwise. (Though having a 'normal' build, whatever that is...still only sees me at 28% S*L.) 'Out of the Box', S*L on Stone Armour is very skimpy. But I can live with that because of the astronomically good S*L, Energy an Psi defence values and how far you can push them even with an SO build. It did really well from the recent 'Design Pass' from the HC Dev' Team. Another caveat. I take every power from the Primary and 2ndaries for all my Tanks. I don't 'hack' my builds (or lose several powers from the Primary and Secondary' sets) to 'make' the 'ultimate' values that I could. I don't do that with my Tanks or any other ATs. My Tanks? They broadly level as SOs and I will insert the 'odd' unique eg. Panacea in Health and ATs much later on eg. 40s. That said. I welcome the discussion from you and others regardless. 'Which tank is better?' Always throws up a wealth of insights from experience builders than beginner Tanks and veterans alike can learn from. It's good for beginner Tanks to know the pros and cons of each Tank. And, ultimately, how to circumvent them with good builds from fellow Tank veterans. So if anyone wants to counter the pros and cons of my 'Starter Tank Top Ten' guide (which I've played 1-50 with SOs then built out...) It's about trade offs. But any beginner could roll any of the 'Top Ten' Tanks and be pretty sturdy. They're all variations on a theme with design trade offs which any 'good build' can can largely circumvent and any 'at all costs' builds will turn you into a Tank that take an insane amount of punishment. Even out of the box you're a 'god.' (Can't say that for 'B*****' who can get in over their heads.) Play style of each Tank is more an emotive choice. Azrael.

See my other posts. My Tank has S*L Resists at 28% and that's with a build out. (Tough toggle turned off for that.) He said, 'Brute'! We don't like dat word around 'ere on Tank forums. HE'S a WITCH! BURN HIM! Azrael.

Energy, Negative and Psi 'Resists' are poor, below mediocre on my 'built out' Tank. On my 'non-granite' Stone Tank. I'm at 53% Resist for S*L. That's on a build out! 😮 For the most common damage type. I consider that my main concern. Without Tough it drops to a very poor 28.75% for S*L. You what? 😮 I consider this Stone Armour's weakness. However, defence for S*L/En/Psi can cover you for those poor resists (it's a deliberate dev' trade off that makes this debate on which tank is best so fun...) until you get hit. Then your Dull Pain/Heal Toggle compensate. Caveats. 'Out of the Box' NON-BUILT Tanks. Who aint doing ITFs and post-50s incarnate UBER AV stuff. In casual play, 1-50, my Stone/Stone tank was untroubled and nothing short of sensational from an armour point of view. (Dealing damage was a bit grindy until I took it to the next level probably L40+ and then adding the build out.) Azrael.

Are we talking 'builds' or levelling up with SO out of the box stuff? This being a 'starter guide' (for the thread title doesn't explicitly say that) for Beginner Tanks who are wondering what to roll and what the broad pros and cons are. S*L is mediocre. But you get sound Energy and Psi resists (no sap!) to compensate. Needless to say, compared to Invulnerability which is higher earlier with S*L, I had to take Tough on Electric armour. (Standard advice from Live forums.) If I take off my Tough toggle on my Elec Armour? Drops to 83% S*L. That's with a build out! Toxic is a weakness on lots of stuff. It's up there with Psi. But S*L resist for the most common damage type for me, is far more notable for a Beginner choosing his / her 1st Tank. Azrael.

1 'Decked Out Build' x 1 week of play = 100 million. x 40 'Decked Out Builds' = 4 Billion. 40 weeks of play. Re: The Market specifically. From the 'play above.' If I had 'only' one yellow recipe drop per day. Bare Minimum pick up over those 40 weeks. (Though, I'd expect 100 million a week from casual play...) 280 days x 500 Thousand (low ball price, could be a million) = 140 million (Low yellow) or 280 million (High Yellow.) 280 days x1.25 million = 340 million. (Playing a L50, one drops at least a day.) 280 days x 100,000 Converter = 28 million. (Take off 30% as they usually go for 70k average. So more like 18-20 million.) 280 days x 100,000 for Normal IO = 28 million. 280 days x 500,000 for Orange Salvage = 140 million. That's just a single drop of each scenario. And of course things drop way more than that in a 1-2 hour 'casual' session. That's a 'casual' 676 Million with minimal drops and casual effort. That excludes the raining influence you get from farming a L50 at +3 x 8. (I count any mission as a farm. Any tip mission can be a 'farm.' For me, a farm might be my Warshade juicing Council Maps +3/4 x 8. 280 million made from a couple of weeks play on one map.) This excludes having a 'specific' farmer. An afk farmer. A brute (which should be faster and MOARer.) Excludes 'playing' the market buying low selling high. It excludes Merits from TIP arcs. It excludes Purple Recipe or Orange recipe drops. Azrael.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this way about Ice Tanks. Mobs absolutely hate me for some reason...and chase after me with ferocity. I went Ice/Ice/Ice all the way. Took the Incarnate Ice Judgement power too. Radial Tier 4 with the Hold, I think. I took Ageless Left. But I think that was a mis-step. I'd now go Radial Ageless to resist slow debuffs against my 'Regen' drive chain. I will fix that at some point. I didn't take the 'ice slow' Interface power. I may go back and take that. Azrael.

Market. Newby. I had over 40 alts. L50. Built out. Builds ranged from 500m-1.2 billion. That's alot of 'influence' in AT Character assets. But I had alot of 'junk' (so called) on each asset. 200-300 million on many builds. Merits. Converters. Cat's. Purple IOs (sometimes as many as 5 on most of the alts. 14 Purple IOs on my Farmer...) I'd got down to my 'last billion' on a main character blew that on some Tank builds. Then scavenged the remaining cash from all the rest of my builds and blew that on Tank Builds also. I made the decision to put together an SG Base and consolidate all remaining assets. ('Search down the back of the sofa' and 'hanging very alt upside down' for loose change.) 3 Storage tables for Attack Purples, Key Rare Oranges, Control based Purples. 1 storage for orange salvage. One for Cats. One for converters. Two for Yellow Salvage. Two for White Salvage. I was down to my last 100 million on my most recent alt. The Shield/MA which was built out which MANY AoEs. By the time I'd finished my 40+ alt Character Audit? I had over 100 Purple recipes (from all the recipes I had to make). 100+ Cats. 100+ Converters. Hero merits. Merits. Lots of decent 'Orange' Recipes (You know the ones...) I've sold some of the control based Purples. Farmed. And consolidated my 'CoH wealth.' And, following the general advice garnered from the market forum, have gone from 100 Million to 2 billion on one alt. Played the market and added 1 billion+ to the next alt. Basically. I used to sell orange and yellow recipes for '1' influence on the market. By not taking the time to craft all of these and utilise these? I've probably 'given away' hundreds of millions to billions in wealth to other players who nabbed it and turned it into wealth. Basically, I turned my hundreds of yellow and orange recipes that were lying around on 40+ alts and crafted them. Ergo? I turned it into enhancements. I converted assets into influence. Lesson learned? Now? I craft as I play. I have not 'played' the market at scale by buying stuff low and selling high in volume? (I suppose I could try that next now I have the billions to try it.) What I build I sell below market rates. 🙂 It's free. Well. It's not. I payed for it with my 'time.' 😉 But in CoH terms. It's free. Craft it and you can make 'money' from 'nothing.' My general advice is this. (And this includes 1st time to L50s.) Get an AT that can deal damage whole sale and somewhat safely. A tank or brute will do. Or a defence capped blaster. Or a War Shade (250 million made in two weeks of 'casual' play.) Play it. (PLAY IT.) Within a week of casual play, loot, drops etc. You'll have 100 million. And the 1st billion is 'the hardest.' Yes. But if you do ten weeks of 'casual' play you'll have your Billion. Some of the best money you make is by drops that come from your play. eg. Common IOs. Sell them at the vendor for 100k a pop. Ten of those? That's a million! Then you have the yellow recipe drops. Craft them! (Make yourself a base. Mine took me 30 mins to 1 hour to make and tweak.) When you roll other alts? Store the wealth at your base. Self invite all your hero alts. Work together for a common cause. Before you know it. You'll start filling up those storage areas and ordering extra storage from CoH SG IKEA. The OSMOSIS of play will get you to 1 billion over a couple of months. As for playing the market. Buy low. Sell high. Patience. (If you want to do it RIGHT NOW, you'll pay RIGHT NOW prices. That can add 500 million to a build.) If you craft and store things as you go along, you can use pre-stored enhancements to build out your alt and the merits you earned as well. Have a base amount on hand for that next project. USE/Play your current built ENOUGH to set aside an amount for your next build. Your current L50 should be played enough to fund the next build. Unless you are Mr. 2003 old school who likes to do things the hard way and 'earn' it the hard way by rolling the boulder up that hill with no starting cash. If you study the Enhancement/Recipe wiki, you'll soon see what the best sets are. And that should correlate with how much things cost on the market. Eg. Luck of the Gambler. Eg. Purple Sets. The more demand. The rarer the set. The MOAR value. Global recharge on Luck of the Gambler will always be in demand because they are an 'easy' way to apply rechrage to a build. You'll find them from 5-8 million. There is a clue right there... Azrael.

A good visual lesson in supply and demand. And patience. Azrael.

I got very Lucky (pun) with Luck of the Gambler Global doing for 28 million. Azrael.

Worst Melee? Psi. It sucks. Azrael.

Elec Armour will get knocked back/over if you jump and are attacked mid-jump. (Pretty embarrassing.) Apart from that it's a great set and one of my favourite tanks. (Just need to boost the S*L Res' with Tough.) Azrael.

Yes. Stone is the Guv'nor. Excellent armour set. Azrael.

If you haven't read Infinitum's excellent build guides you owe it to yourself to go and have a look. Then...build one! Hopefully, this 'Beginner's Guide' to Tank Armours 'ice cream flavour' assessment of Tanks will have newcomers to Tanking willing to try all the flavours and make up their own mind. Old School? New School? Passive (no button pressing)? Active(MOAR button pressing)? Beginner? Advanced? Which Tank are you? Azrael.

I think that's a decent build. You've contributed to a build set(s) that aren't common. Rad and then Bio were my most recent tanks. They're both great. My Rad/BSword tank was unbeaten L1-50. Good Job. Azrael.

It took me ages to find one. I think I had to use the Rad from one build and Broadsword from another build. Splice them together. I think a Bio/BS tank would be 'just as good.' eg. On my Rad/BS tank? I think the key is to play to Rad's resistance strengths. Use the attack def' buff from Broadsword and build on that. ie. Melt Down and Parry. The Twin Pillars of the build for me. Channel those on top of a reasonable/decent build and? Hit a mob with Parry and you can be get well beyond Melee Incarnate Cap. Hit Melt Down and your resistances for key damage offenders will be very robust. Stack them together and you have a formidable Tank. It's one of Tanking's best kept secrets? Azrael.

Recall Foe. Yes. On live, a friend ran Invul/En'. I remember him using Recall Foe for runners. Tp'ing mobs to you can be very satisfying. (I use that technique on my War Shade...for entire mobs.) Azrael.

Now, I didn't know that. Noted. And. Thank you. 'Learned something new.' TM. I'll test that out on my Fire/Fire Tank. If I had to pick my Top 3 tanks? I'd go Ice/Stone at joint number 1. Second. Elec Armour. Third. Invulerability. Azrael.