oldskool

Its been a while, but at one point I had a comment that the true power of the Sentinel was to generate troll posts on how useless the AT vs X ATs. One can certainly make some valid complaints about one thing vs the other, but more often than not discussions around the Sentinel generally devolve into hyperbolic nonsense. Just take much of the criticism with a grain of salt (some of it is valid, but a lot of it is blown way out of proportion).

For a bit more context on why Beam is considered being where it is, that is mostly due to the Sentinel version having another area power. Beam is generally a high single target damage set in other ATs, but has lower AoE potential (which really may not even be an issue depending on AT). The Sentinel version is less of the single target powerhouse, and a bit more normalized in how it handles multiple targets. It is still a good set, but the comparisons of it don't fully work against other ATs. Just something to keep in mind.

Good or bad can get incredibly subjective in COX terms. This has a lot to do with granular specifics on how one choses to a slot specific powers and pair them with other specific effects. So, in order to help you out a bit better than just "this gud, that bad": Dark Armor may be a bit more complicated to get the most out of for a brand new player. If you're really brave, then go for it. If you're looking for easier things to play, then I'd recommend you stick with Willpower, Invulnerability, Energy Aura = Super Reflexes, and in that order. Willpower has almost no click powers across the majority of your leveling experience and relies almost solely on toggle powers. Invulnerability is very similar, but includes a click power, Dull Pain, early on. In both cases, their final powers could be considered optional (further lowering any clicks). Energy Aura and Super Reflexes are conceptually very similar and have a little bit more thought/interaction. The main reason I'd point you towards Willpower/Invul is both of these sets come with pretty robust resistance packages underneath everything else they offer. I feel they way these sets are constructed makes them pretty easy to build for since the outcome should be rather straight forward. Energy Aura and Super Reflexes aren't really complicated, but they rely a lot more on high defense values and less on other layering (Super Reflexes more so than Energy Aura). Invul, Super Reflex, Energy Aura are typically considered some of the strongest defense sets in the AT, *but* the catch is there is a bit of system mastery to really squeeze out the best performance. Of the three, Invul maybe a bit easier. Beyond that, most of the Sentinel primaries are pretty good. Just how good they are is going to depend an awful lot on a ton of minutiae you may not be ready for. Pick what you like.

@Grimm2 I had looked at the build a couple of weeks ago, but figured now is as good a time to say something as any. 😉 In the past, I used to weigh Pistols a bit heavier in my builds for a lot of nuanced reasons. One of those was in how I could make the use of old Opportunity as easy for me as possible while maximizing damage output in a scope of time (between 4 - 6 seconds; this helps when picking powers). Well, now that Opportunity is different, none of that older advice really matters anymore. So, this means when talking about heavy proc use Dual Wield can fit much, much, better into the discussion. DW was actually always a good alternative, and especially so with Homecoming's Ice Minstrel's Torment, but is basically even better now, in my opinion. That said, do you need a respec to change everything up to squeeze out maybe a bit more DPS? Probably not. I'm just bringing this up that there are other means to optimize Dual Pistols, within the context of keeping in the set itself, and other approaches are still pretty good. I don't play as much anymore, but I haven't seen a need to respec any of my Dual Wield characters since the last major patch. For the Sentinel, specifically, I run Dual Wield, Suppressive Fire, and Executioner's shot. I use two each of Gladiator's Javelin (Acc/Dmg, Toxic proc), a general damage IO +5, and then 3 more procs. The slotting of Executioner's shot is different as I leverage 2x Gladiator's, 2x Apocalypse (Damage +5, damage proc), and put Achilles' Heel here. All in all, each of these 3 powers has 4 procs and around 126%+ damage when Musculature Core Alpha can be used.

Seems like you discovered the root of your problem. Also, you may have started your Sentinel with incredibly unrealistic expectations.

I don't think there are going to be a whole lot of options for you skip powers with that pairing. Stone Armor wants most of its powers. Geode is one you can skip if your durability is good enough without it. Psionic Blast is a pretty power hungry primary, and it really does want insane levels of recharge before we start talking about skipping powers. The T1 power, Mental Blast, is pretty much crap. You can skip it and not look back. Telekinetic Blast, Will Domination, and Scramble Thoughts are still the cornerstone single target powers. If your recharge gets extreme enough, then Psionic Strike may not have a place in your attack chain. Otherwise, Psionic Strike may be useful as filler. For AoE, Psychic Wall is your hardest hitter. Despite the low number of targets, Psychic Scream is still an attractive choice for AoE heavy lifting. The reason for that is due to Psionic Tornado having a 20 second cooldown as part of its base power. So, unless you're rocking some incredibly high recharge you're likely going to want Psychic Scream. Eventually, you could respec out of it if you have faster options. Psychic Focus is your Aim power, and it is a spike damage burst effect. I don't usually recommend skipping it, but you may push it off while leveling. So, yeah... that's not a lot of skip options without careful consideration of what the final product could be.

First things first, answering the question of the post itself. Just how powerful is dual pistols in the current update. Answer: Slightly better than it was, but just how effective that improvement is depends on a whole lot of factor. These factors can include: - Specific power slotting - Specific Archetype - Your total recharge - Specific Secondary choices (or for Defenders, their primary) - Whether you solo or group more - What your own goals are - And so on [Dual Pistols is a complex set, which I like, but that is a detriment to the set overall because you bend over backwards to make it tread water more often than not. It isn't like the knowledge that goes into the set pays off in some secret reward when one can pick Fire Blast instead and roll their face on the keyboard. lololololol...] RE: Suppressive Fire... Suppressive Fire was always good for procs. The change does reduce some of that damage, but you can fire the attack twice in the same time span vs the original's recharge. So, that is a nice buff. But how effective is it for damage? Well... that can get complicated. Let's take a back step and consider the following set of questions. What kind of Blaster do you plan to play? Do you plan to mix it up in melee? Do you plan to just sit back and pew pew? Do you care at all about set bonuses for the purposes of defense bonuses? You see, the new Suppressive Fire's significant impact on your single target damage cycle really only matters most in the context of using it with a mostly ranged routine (it is not a replacement to Executioner's Shot). On top of this, how you choose to slot Suppressive Fire is going to really make or break that power (full proc load out or not). So, the change to Suppressive Fire as a DPS add can become a 'meh' or even skip choice to certain Blaster builds. If you *really* want to explore proc damage without any care to defensive set bonuses, then the Sentinel is a pretty good choice for this. We're talking about a single target all ranged attack routine, and well... that's pretty much what the Sentinel does. If you're playing a Blaster, then there is a good chance you care a lot about AoE. On top of that you likely have better single target options in your secondary if all we care about is the most possible damage. Anyway, if one wanted to really push Suppressive Fire (at least with sets), then I would recommend using the 5pc Apocalypse set + Unbreakable Constraint damage proc. That'll set Suppressive Fire's damage reasonably high. Executioner's Shot then becomes a great place for Superior Blaster's Wrath. Both of these loadouts grant you set bonuses. This can enable Pistols + Suppressive Fire + Executioner's Shot as a fully ranged attack routine which does OK damage. And I really wanna stress... the above isn't the optimal way to slot Executioner's Shot. Hell, it isn't even the optimal way to play a Blaster (Blapping tends to do more damage, and more AoE is essentially the AT's niche). Its just the most bang (heh) for your buck when considering those three specific powers in the a total vacuum which just isn't a great way to plan out a Blaster. [And the difference of swapping the slotting between the two is likely going to be pretty low single digit loss in DPS; its peanuts] However, if you *really* wanna do it, then that is the slotting for those two powers I would recommend. If you can get away with proccing *any* power, then Executioner's shot is still better. That's even assuming all 6 slots devoted to nothing but procs. See where I am going with this? Suppressive Fire's change is nice, but it does not revolutionize Dual Pistols. Hell, if you have a better choice to replace it with from your secondary, then Suppressive Fire may not even be a consideration, at all. RE: Piercing Rounds... The change, in my opinion, is better in some ways for Corruptors and Defenders than it is for anyone else. You can run Chemical Ammo to debuff damage dealt and still impose the negative to resistance to support the team. Blasters could do that too, but when considering raw DPA powers there just better options. Piercings Rounds, in general, is still pretty meh for single target and for AoE its pretty much a waste of time. It can be effective as a team support power though. The changes to Suppressive Fire do toss a bit of a wrench into the mix which raises a question of do I use Piercing Rounds with it (i.e., Piercing Rounds -> Executioner's Shot -> Suppresive Fire -> filler) or keep to the classic routine at high recharge (i.e., Piercing Rounds -> Pistols -> Executioner's Shot -> Pistols). My thought is if you can have a high enough global recharge to have Executioner's Shot recharge in 2.9 seconds or less, then Piercing Rounds may end up being either a DPS loss or just break even. That recharge number is significant because Pistols + Suppressive Fire animates in that time frame. This also means the following: Executioner's Shot + Suppressive Fire + Pistols (its filler) + Executioner's Shot is not only possible, but spans 6.6 seconds of time. Contrast that with... Piercing Rounds + Pistols + Executioner's Shot + Pistols spanning 6.864 seconds, or even replacing a use of Pistols with Suppressive Fire going up to 7.392 seconds. If you can do more damage in 6.6 seconds using the faster animating skills, despite the existence of the resistance debuff, then Piercing Rounds is going to lose its value. This is especially noticeable on Sentinels because their version of the debuff is the worst, but it can be present on Blasters too. At the very least, there is the considerable opportunity cost of Piercing Rounds vs other options. On Corrs/Fenders, this is more a question of "Do I want to stack another 15% to 20% resistance debuff on top of my other resistance debuff options?". Anyway, that's what I had gathered when the changes were on test. There are going to be use cases with various personas that all of the above is absolutely meaningless. When looking at optimization (which is really what this entire question skirts around) things like extreme recharge matter. Your overall recharge is going to dictate what kinds of animation constraint yields the best results with various combinations of powers.

Nope. That game play interaction is gone.

Sentinel AR's Ignite appears to be slightly stronger than the Blaster version. Sentinel has 243.72 vs Blaster's 241.61 Not complaining, but that seems a bit off given their placement in each set's kit. I will of course caveat this that the Blaster has Sniper Rifle (281 dmg) which the Sentinel has nothing equivalent to. Has anyone double checked these (am I missing something??)? Fire Blast's new changes to the T2 power of the same name made me take a double take on the new DPA. Holy crap. Not gonna lie, kinda glad to see Scramble Thoughts back on the Sentinel. So far, I like the idea of the new hold changes on Suppressive Fire. I don't really use Cryo a whole lot, but adding the longer hold duration on Chem plays right into what I wanted from my Corruptor and Defender (both lean more on support than LOLWTFBBQDPS). I'm not that concerned about the Chemical Ammo damage loss on either of the two support ATs since Piercing Rounds is the cornerstone of both builds. This change at least lets me use Suppressive Fire on my Corruptor in the way I use it on live while also leveraging Chemical Ammo for its debuff while also benefiting from the Piercing Rounds change (which I like). Obviously, not everyone is going to be happy about the implementation, but I think it goes a long way into a better direction than the last beta build in actual practice (so thank you for that change!).

You need to find something that looks like a spray and color it green if you want to lean into her current heel angle. 😉

RE: Psy Blast --- Sentinel (fairly short, largely positive run down) Pros: Psionic Strike shifts to being more of the cornerstone single-target power it really should have been from the start. On Live, there could be situations in builds (i.e., extreme recharge and optimization effort) where Scramble Thoughts overshadows Psionic Strike. Additionally, this priority conflict could muck with lower level builds or exemplar for older content. Removing Scramble Thoughts from the equation helps Psionic Strike. Multiple AoE options *and* their cast time is reduced. I know it is very popular to beat down Sentinels on per-activation damage of their AoE. They just don't have the spike potential. However, this particular kit now has 3 AoE options which goes a long way towards its team contribution and smooths out some rough edges even soloing. Nice! Cons: Elevating Psionic Strike by nerfing Scramble Thoughts is a double edge sword. However, the number of players this negatively impacts is probably incredibly tiny as ST's largest impact involves the extreme end of the optimization spectrum. Still, this change is going to force some folks to change up how they approach Psy Blast for better and for worse. Mental Blast still feels like a terrible power choice.

RE: Dual Pistols Feedback Suppressive Fire Pros: Offers another viable damage option to all ATs. The animation reduction is a nice DPA increase, and overall DPS increase for Sentinels in particular. Still works well with damage procs although in a diminished capacity (the base damage helps offset the reduction even with the new animation). Cons: My Corruptor's Hold Duration when from just over 16 seconds of time down to 4 seconds of time for no meaningful increase in my overall DPS. What I mean here is the power is slotted as a hold. Its damage was irrelevant to my use of it. Using it on beta means I lose a bit less of my overall DPS, but this also was never a concern in using the power in the first place. The basic DPA of the power is slightly better than Dual Wield making this power sit in a position of "Why do I need another T2-like power when I already have Dual Wield?". [Edit: Suppressive Fire is being undersold a bit too much in this comment. I was looking at some wrong numbers in my notes and didn't click in my head what I was looking at. SF is a good bit better than Dual Wield even when considering that SF doesn't get DoT ticks with Incendiary Ammo. So, whoops; but this is also largely a moot point. SF has plenty of value for a variety of builds with the most recent update to all the ammo hold options.] Some ATs, like the Blaster, don't really need another attack when better choices exist. The changes to Piercing Rounds depreciates the damage for all ATs but the Sentinel (Sentinel really get a short end of the stick here). Piercing Rounds Pros: Using Piercing Rounds with Incendiary Ammo, and the Pistols - Executioner's Shot sandwich, is better than it ever was. Piercing Rounds is a viable option for Blasters using ammo, and potentially even an optimal choice for Defender and Corruptor builds. Cons: For point #2, it was already optimal for certain builds, but it is also arguably better to play with when using ammo. So PRO/CON here. Piercing Rounds creates a standard in which the resistance debuff can hold back the rest of the entire Dual Pistols kit from better damage. What I mean here is a lot of folks, rightfully, skip Piercing Rounds because its animation is pretty long. It takes serious consideration to make this work and some specific use for viability. The resistance debuff makes all subsequent attacks better and even force multiplies other ATs on your team. In turn, the rest of the DP kit is stuck with subpar DPA powers where the highest option for single target is, absurdly, Pistols and the best single target damage attack is Executioner's Shot which pales in comparison with other primaries. Sentinel is still stuck with the 9.6% version and isn't as worth it in respect to Suppressive Fire, still.

Truth... I don't want to have to go and re-write everything in the sticky post. I know there are now outdated entries in there, but its a lot more now (soon even more!!). 😭 Anyway, we've had it too quiet in this forum for too long. These changes may hopefully bring back the "OMG YOU ALL SUCK" posts that people that wanted spout their Blaster supremacy used to do. I for one, welcome our new overlords (not really; I don't advocate people being douchebags on the Internet, unless it is funny).

Ya know, for a long time Sentinels have had some advantages in their versions of the Blast Sets, and now all of the ATs are going to be eating at our table. Folks may look at the new Assault Rifle and say "HOLY CRAP THAT IS AWESOME", and we're here in this dusty subforum just nodding our heads. Yeah... Those were good changes in 2019. 😉

I'll try to get some time on all my Dual Pistol characters, but I did try out the changes on the Sentinel. Overall, this was a damage increase, but I may have gotten lucky on my Pylon not slapping me around as much as usual. For context, on Live my Suppressive Fire has a DPA of just over 135. On Brainstorm the same character with the change to SF has a new DPA in that power of 150. Slotting includes Acc/Dmg from the PvP set and a +5 common level 50 IO. One of the procs is the Unbreakable Constraint. The others include Toxic and Psionic standard PPM. My solo attempt recorded time just leveraging Ageless for Endurance (the recharge is inconsequential to my build as my routine is gapless before using it) and not using Assault Hybrid was 3 Minutes 15 Seconds. This was one of the fastest times I have recorded and it was on a first attempt which is rare for me. This is still too small a sample to really conclude the total breadth of the damage increase (at least for my build), but it does match napkin modeling. By this, I assume at least a +5 DPS increase due to the changes, and even in despite of the prod chance reduction, and in testing it was greater than that on a first go. Of course, I expect that because modeling Opportunity, Achilles' Heel, etc. isn't something I am bothering with in a quick calculation. I have both a Defender and Corruptor that I'll check out when I have more time. Both builds use Piercing Rounds, particularly with no ammo, in order to create synergy with their debuff kits which also include -resistance. I *never* modeled performance for either based off stacking debuffs from PR, and likely won't notice a performance drop. What I am more interested in is performance with allowance of an ammo power in the routine with the change (which to me is a welcome addition). My Corruptor has Suppressive Fire 4 slotted with Basilisk. I do not build for procs on that character (same goes for the Defender) as I have moved away from that on these characters a while ago. Anyway, more later. So far, the Sentinel felt pretty smooth in a quick test and I wanted to share that feedback.