oldskool

And some of that is a good bit of gatekeeping too. A degree of "balance" is really hard to take seriously given how this game is built. Instead, arguments around DPS come across like "you can't be better than me" or "you're not playing this game right because how I play is correct". This game is incredibly hard to balance in the respect of +/- 5% for the DPS ATs since support ATs can debuff DPS-adjacent attributes. This can create situations where support ATs function at a stronger level than their offense step up would suggest they should. The alternative here is to ensure that the offensive capability has to be counter balanced against the permutations of debuff support in an AT. This ultimately is a crappy way to deal with balance because not all support sets are equal in distribution on debuff (some don't do that at all). This game is never going to solve the Kinetics challenge for solo play where a player can buff their abilities to cap by kicking all other combinations in the balls. So, yeah... I don't wanna see a change in the IO system where is set to purposefully enforce a concept of DPS-Tank-Support trinity that exist elsewhere. Customization is what keeps me playing this game. Remove that, and you remove my desire to keep playing. Of course, my opinion doesn't matter since this is free, but still...

I don't have a specific recommendation on primaries because they are all pretty good. However, 4 of the weapon sets (Staff, Broadsword, Titan Weapons, Katana) include a +defense power which can make the early levels a bit easier. Secondaries are a bit different. I would never tell you to avoid a set if you wanted to play it, but some do have some things to keep in mind which may turn you off. Regeneration - This is a more advanced set to deal with and may feel exceptionally squishy as a first time melee player. Any sets with a damage aura (Bio Armor, Dark Armor, Electric Armor, Fiery Aura, etc.) - These sets are great for adding more damage, but the damage aura will likely get you more attention than you may want. This can also lead to being overwhelmed early on which may lend to a sense the set is squishy. Pretty safe/easy to play picks: Energy Aura Invulnerability Shield Defense (works well with Broadsword for more defense in melee early!) Willpower All of the above have a mixture of damage mitigation options built in and Willpower is one of the most hands off secondaries in the game. It can feel a bit squishy early on as you build up, but it smooths out later on. Note, Willpower's Rise to the Challenge has a taunt element to it, but by the time you start using this the set is beginning to mature. Also, RttC regenerates health faster with more enemies so it isn't that bad. Still, this may add a layer of complication you may not be interested in. There are a lot of other secondaries to pick from, and if I didn't list them it doesn't mean for a second they are bad. They just may have quirks about them that add to complexity or have other features which may lend a bit more thought to how it plays.

I don't recall saying it was a problem to begin with. My point is that there was a point in time where the design of the Sentinel had its own set of merits vs the Blaster AT. All of the improvements to the Blaster are essentially resolving a set of problems that the Sentinel no longer solves. Snipes, not being rotational placed other lower tier attacks as being the go-to set up for more common damage cycles. The Sentinel spreads out its damage across other options like reducing the CC on certain powers and improving their damage. This makes it to where the Sentinel's baseline attack cycle is less spikey but also more consistent than the Blaster's. However, that isn't how this functions in the current game as it is easy enough to just have burst damage on demand in your rotation. The Sentinel's shorter cooldown and more available "nuke" could be countered by the Blaster's longer cooldown consequence-attached nuke (obviously that no longer exists).

Quick snipe with 22% to-hit was planned on the Test Server and never rolled out to Live, sure. However, the removal of that requirement and the current state of snipe powers *is* a HC thing. That happened in I26 Page 2.

Wasn't there a time when the Blaster T9's drained all endurance and had some other limitation to "balance" its damage? Also like how until Homecoming changed it, the snipes weren't really rotational powers like they are now. There was a point where the idea of how the Sentinel is now faired better in the "balance" that currently exists.

I really doubt there is a combination of powers that is going to change their opinion based on the nature of their post. Some people just do not like the Sentinel AT, period. There is no amount of discussion that will get them to enjoy the AT.

There is an (un)healthy bit of "I know but I don't wanna" as well as a good bit of gatekeeping involved.

I think an important distinction here too is that when the devs discuss balancing the Sentinel, at least going back to 2019, the comparison point was never Blasters. Just because the two have ranged blast powers doesn't mean there is a realistic source of comparison between the two. That isn't to say that the Sentinel is going to overperform the Scrapper, Stalker, or Brute. There are a lot of reasons why those ATs are going to remain ahead. However, the general impression of Sentinel play shouldn't be too terrible now from level 1 to 45+ given the better scalar.

"From some really sharp players" - Nice backhanded compliment. I gave you a thumbs down the first time because I disagree with your commentary. I find "hot garbage" to be a bit much. I also find it a bit much from someone not qualifying their observation with anything else other just *I think this is true...*. Furthermore, you show your complete arrogance here taking umbrage with someone disagreeing with you (how DARE we). In order to really get us good this time, you decide to not only be a condescending jerk in text, but make a false assumption we must be idiots too. Therefore, it must be necessary to post your Blaster and then declare it superior to all Sentinels because surely no one here is as smart as you are. Meanwhile, in reviewing a comparison, my Sentinel actually does in fact higher single-target DPS than that build does due to its structure. Sure, the Blaster as an AT is going to do more AOE. I freaking know this because I play one myself, but its also not an argument anyone is making. Seriously, get over yourself. You'd be easier to take seriously if you didn't purposefully go out of your way not only be a dick about it but then literally post a build that is yawn inducing. Don't get a nose bleed off that high horse your riding on.

I went and dug up an old Archery/Nin/Nin build here on the forums, but realized I needed to just redo it since that version of Mids is old. So, in the spoiler tag is a possible way to re-slot what you have. My goals weren't to replicate what you have entirely, but just to re-think this in how I may do it on a first draft. Things that I find important with Archery are: 1) Get the recharge high enough that I can ignore the T1/T2 --- Page 5 makes this GREAT given that Stunning Shot -> Blazing Arrow -> Perfect Shot has always been the best way to go and now its just better. 2) If possible, get some extra damage where I can... So, in this case procs aren't that much of an option, but global damage. You could get 10% more of that than what you had and that is a bit of an improvement when considering the scalar is now 1.1. I felt your build's defenses were a bit higher than I care for, BUT there are plenty of reasons to do that. I'm not questioning the decision but just making a note on preference. If hitting 50% defense is an important thing, then go for it. Obviously, Incarnates with a damage focus, like Musculature, Assault, etc., are just going to make this a lot better. I didn't have time to revisit various sets that tend to lean towards the ignoring of their T1/T2 (Beam Rifle comes to mind), but this was a fun little exercise. I've always like how Sentinel Archery works.

In addition to a lot of the great comments on primaries, Rad Blast and Dual Pistols are also favorites of mine for Defenders. Sonic Blast is a pretty obvious one, but Dual Pistols also offers some resistance debuffing in Piercing Rounds as well as some negative defense (multiple powers). That's just using the default ammo. You can also use Chemical Ammo for damage debuffing, and Cryo Ammo for slows. Nice options there when paired with a flexible primary. Rad Blast is really just overkill on defense reduction, especially so on Defenders, but if you really, really, want to floor defense values it is a hoot.

These changes have put breath back into my undead sorcerer and his minions. Despite this being "overkill", I actually *really* like that. Between the various pets and Soul Extraction having aura buffs and the options bring a smile to my face. Its one of my oldest characters and a replica of something I played on live. Hell, it even uses the name of my very first COH character I leveled to 50 before COV was ever a concept. The nostalgia of the character is so deep and it has been kinda painful to have it benched for so long. Now it is time. Rise from your graves!

I don't really have any suggestions, but I am curious if you have taken this out for a spin with the new changes. If so, what are your thoughts?

Fair question. In more fast pace situations, I found the use of the button very distracting. I found myself trying to manage an understanding of when I should press this again in order to try to keep it on cooldown while maximizing its benefit. The Vulnerability button is as active as you want it to be depending on situations. In order to try to test out and get a sense for the overall damage impact, I felt pushed into a sense of trying to keep it building from 0 - 50% as much as possible. Leaving this at 50% or allowing it to build back up to 100% is leaving effects of my inherent on the table vs the more passive nature of everything else except for Dominators. The other flipside of this, is that the overall impact for action taken, doesn't feel all that impactful since it is limited on targets. In faster paced gameplay, like jumping spawn to spawn or general teaming, the uptime of Vulnerability isn't really going to feel worth my time. This is in part due to just how much damage an entire group is going to leverage. Do I just press an AoE attack or do I decide to slap Vulnerability on that target? If the team is moving quickly enough without Vulnerability, then it doesn't seem worth the time to use. If I do use both charges between the first two spawns, then I will have some downtime which is more a nuisance than anything. When the reward for introducing complexity and new cognitive load isn't seen as matching the effort, then people will likely stop doing the action. Adding a mechanic to force feast-or-famine should feel impactful, but this really doesn't do that. Its either really distracting to me or near useless. So, "clunky" is to mean awkwardness or cumbersome. The Vulnerability button meets those thoughts, in my opinion, in play testing. That said, I may change my mind over time as I get used to including Vulnerability in my gameplay cycle. This is more an element where gameplay and muscle memory will overcome a system that I may feel is needlessly cumbersome just to get a benefit out of it. I guess while I am at it, this active use of an inherent that is limited to a single target will likely always stay in the back of my mind as something I dislike. For giggles, I decided to put my STJ/SR Stalker, without any Incarnates slotted at all and no heavy proc use in its build, against a Pylon. It performed 6% less effective than my Incarnate maxed Sentinel using 4 procs per attack and trying to maximize the uptime of the vulnerability effect. The caveat here though is my Stalker does have the Hide ATO and that contributes a significant amount of damage. This allows me to follow-up and Assassin's Strike into a Combo 3 finisher with a critical hit quite often. I haven't bothered to do the same with my DB/SR Scrapper because I am pretty sure I know the outcome. Again, that is going to sit in the back of my mind that the feeling of weaving the Vulnerability button into my attack routine adds a new layer of complexity solely for me to underperform vs other AT options. Ugh, I wanna be careful here, and be clear. I enjoy my Sentinel. I enjoy my Scrapper and Stalker. I sometimes enjoy playing my Blaster. The ultra competitive mindset on effectiveness isn't necessarily a reason why I play any of these. However, I would be remiss if I ignored that when you play a Sentinel, and try to play it as optimally as possible, you literally have to work harder for less reward. That is what the Vulnerability button represents to me. Is it something I can adapt to and deal with later on? YES. Would I much rather prefer something else in its place? Absolutely. However, I don't think that is going to happen. I'll just accept what I can get. Also, when a lot of other Sentinel subforum discussion was going on, I *really* wanted to see a scalar increase. I was FAR less concerned with what Opportunity actually would be. The 1.1 scalar is more than I originally hoped, and using Vulnerability (as limited as it is) is still something. My feedback overall is still mostly positive.

I did some tinkering with my DP/SR build and toying around with both Hybrid Assault Core and Radial. Core's +damage was expected to pull away from Radial's Doublehit. On Live, for me these have been pretty competitive, but on Brainstorm Core pulls a bit away more. I figured it would and its nice to see it does. The poor Pylons have taken quite a beating as I wanted to work on how I use Vulnerability in my rotation. I was able to increase some of my previous damage attempts and started to get more consistent 300~ DPS attempts. That's just using Dual Wield, Suppressive Fire, and Executioner's Shot with 4 procs each. The 2 remaining slots have 125% damage modification with Musculature Core Alpha. Regular missions Vulnerability's biggest win will be for folks leveling up Sentinels or those that aren't really min-maxing to the gills. For those of us with builds pushing optimization pretty hard, Vulnerability is kinda 'meh' because of the combination of generally better base damage + proc abuse. However, for others not doing this, I can see more frequent castings even against LTs just to knock them out of the fight faster. The ability to have 2 of these up in a minute has its own tactical uses in solo or group play. It *is* clunky. Putting the Opportunity Strikes ATO in an AOE isn't a bad choice because it might help spread Vulnerability around when group hopping. I'd still prefer some other ATO proc options, but I do think the general community will see some benefits they aren't right now. All in all, this seems pretty successful. I haven't encountered any major bugs where the Vulnerability button didn't work. My findings have mostly been QOL where I may forget that 50% of my meter is available (I have it combat monitoring). Practice will correct that. If anyone feels as if the sky is falling here, I'd really just urge you to not be worried. I'm *not* seeing a true 15% damage increase on single target. I have been getting closer to an 11% improvement more consistently in that space, and certainly see a slightly better (14-15%) improvement on AoE minion/LT chainsawing. On the HC live server, I can already do much of what I am doing on Brainstorm. These changes did not suddenly make my Blaster obsolete, but they did make some of my Sentinel's gameplay smoother.

Hmmm.... Axe/EA. So Strong. So Pretty.

I almost went into the disparity between melee vs ranged IO sets and defense bonuses. It definitely blurs a lot of lines.

I'm not sure Sentinel's are last place in defenses. Sentinels share the same defense buff value as Blasters (0.70). In practice, this difference with Scrappers/Stalkers/Brutes isn't really an issue. We're talking about 1-2% less on the Sentinel vs the other DPS ATs. HP-wise, Sentinels share the same minimum and maximum as Stalkers (the base is also the same for Blasters; their top end is lower though). Sentinels get other bells and whistles into their secondaries that the melee ATs don't. Its pretty minor stuff, but it can add up when you can also potentially limit minion damage to just ranged attacks. I personally would love to see Sentinels get the same 0.75 modifier as the other melee ATs do. This is more for consistency than anything. The actual mitigation effect is going to be really low given that most Sentinel builds are capable of maximizing what their secondary is good at already. Also, not a response for Dispari, but when thinking about the 1.1 vs 1.125 scalar thing, here is some context. Bringing up that remaining 0.025 scalar on a power with a value of 100 is adding like 2.5 damage. So other folks talking about the effective difference between the Sentinel buff and Blasters have that to fall on too. We're talking about 2.5 damage being the difference without all of the other factors that the Blaster has going for it. In actual play testing, folks will find that the Blaster does more than just 2.5 more damage than the Sentinel does. It's not a big deal.

Using the DPS calculation from the Pylon thread, the difference in DPS improvement appears to be about 10% (even 10% improvement on throughput speeds things up). That seems to fall in line with what @Underfyre noted in the Sentinel subforum of an expected return of about 9% on single target. My own testing has been between 7-9% using a purely ranged build. The Sentinel's optimization ceiling is pretty low and so yeah the margin's aren't going to be all that extreme. Other builds will likely enjoy the noticeable increase and especially so with AoE output. Its still not up there with the insanity of other DPS ATs (where real power creep exists) without seriously bending over backwards to build a post level 45 character.

Oh no... squirrels? Luminara, you never, ever, mess with squirrels. You may need to find a new dimension to live in. Hopefully, they have a CoH server there!

This is overstating Sentinels and understating Blasters. Moving the damage scalar to 1.1 doesn't get to a point where Sentinels "can do the same thing...". They don't do the same things unless you purposefully kneecap your Blaster build to only be at range. Even then the Blaster still has advantages over the Sentinel. Sentinels have a target cap limitation in their powers which the Blaster doesn't have. For any target engagement going beyond 6-10 enemies, the Blaster has an advantage. Blasters have access to a myriad of melee powers both single target and AoE. These also have better scaling than ranged blast powers. This is where Blaster damage potential starts to excel. Build-Up is a common power in melee sets with a significant burst damage advantage that Sentinels never get. Defiance works on all attacks. Sentinel Opportunity (now Vulnerability) has a single target limit. These changes to the Sentinel also incorporate an absorption of sorts of the basic damage benefit of generic Opportunity and Offensive Opportunity. Against a single target, the beta Sentinel isn't seeing a full 15% damage increase, even with Vulnerability active, because it is trading its old benefits for new ones. In AoE, the Sentinel on beta may be seeing closer to that 15% increase, but this still has limitations on target caps. There is no way the Sentinel out performs the Blaster's designed damage potential in this scenario. Blasters with investment into IOs can be be sturdy enough. Sentinels optimizing for max damage still fall behind Blasters potential and will always lag behind in AoE when target density is a key factor. The team could push the Sentinel to 1.125, right now if they wanted, and it still wouldn't make the Sentinel stronger than the Blaster.

[Edits]: After some more testing, performance is definitely better. In respect to the degree of change from the beta to live, that is going to be a YMMV caveat. The changes are a buff. Just how much of a a buff that would be is going to be dependent on the power sets, build, and situations. In general, the entirety of the gameplay is a good bit smoother just because of the scalar increase. The new Vulnerability mechanic can be a reasonable combat contributor given the limitations of being an inherent power (i.e., cannot be enhanced).

Its a fair point, and I do have damage enhancement in the proc carrying powers. The procs just add more damage on top of what I already have. 😉

Probably not. The rich will get richer with this. Bio Armor will remain strong since it is boosting base damage, and Sentinel base damage is getting a buff. Really, any of the current secondaries which overtly contribute to damage will just get better. Actually, any sources of +damage are going to be better now since the baseline is going up. While chasing +damage set bonuses isn't really amazing, it isn't completely useless if you start pushing towards 15%-20% (like Scrappers/Stalkers and Blasters can do). Damage-wise, there is still significant difference between ATs that can abuse certain powers like snipes (e.g., Scrappers/Stalkers) in their Epics or how general Blaster play works (i.e., spoiled for choice in offensive options). So far, don't expect the Sentinel to be blowing away the competition without additional tweaks, but so far the changes are better even if it is just slightly. Primaries are unlikely to suddenly change in solo play (beyond the 15~% damage boost), but most players should notice some smoother AoE clear as they gain more progress in their character. The general damage increase to AoE, plus the faster progression towards the T9, are pretty significant benefits for all Sentinels.

New thoughts: Initial testing was tinkering around with a Pylon and so the damage difference isn't that noticeable. Also, there was a learning curve on the Vulnerability button use since Offensive Opportunity is just built into my attack chain on live where I don't think about it. On Beta, I have to retrain some gameplay in order to watch for the circle and use the button. That's mildly annoying, but seeing as how Opportunity was really only ever impactful against specific targets on current Live anyway, this is very minor to me. Toyed a bit in a S/L AE mission to pew pew against minions and LTs at +4/x8. This is an import of my Dual Pistols/Super Reflexes character with all the bells and whistles. Minion mowing speed is noticeable. One shotting LTs is a possibility, but bearing in mind my build is highly dependent on procs for additional damage. Still, solo against the larger packs of mobs that I could engage with off live is less of a slog due to the noticeable difference in damage on the AOE. That said, the inherent does have some issues in performance, and the ATOs could use some reviews. Inherent: (Just Brainstorming) As noted, the use case of Vulnerability is very limited and can lend itself to being forgotten. However, removing it entirely may be a poor decision given feedback in this beta thus far is an incredibly low number of players vs the rest of the community. While the joke of "there are 10s of us" may have some truth, completely removing the mechanic may be worse than the alternative unless that comes with some significantly beneficial change. I could see that change being problematic in both balance and implementation. Anyway, the button click, for me, is a minor inconvenience for otherwise general improvements which have some benefit. I'll take what I can get. ATOs: Both procs need a revamp. That may not be possible in this Issue, but I think they do need some work. 1) Opportunity Strikes - Given the limited use of the button Vulnerability an additional 10% meter gain isn't substantial enough to really warrant a power slot besides the fact the overall set bonuses can be desirable. Possible Solution A: Include a damage proc similar to Corruptors, Blasters, etc. Possible Solution B: Expanding functionality of Vulnerability. I.e., Restore some of the lost -Res that existed in legacy Opportunity. Perhaps even using this as a method to restore a -5% defense and Resistance that used to exist in the basic attacks by default. This could be resisted as it was before if the additional damage increase is considered too much. 2) Sentinel's Ward - I need to test some results on this a bit more as it seems as if the absorb was higher than I am used to in observation. That said, this is still pretty low for the kinds of content we have. Like the Opportunity proc, this effect isn't strong enough to really warrant using it beyond the value of the set bonuses. Possible Solution A: Perhaps reclaim some semblance of "Defensive Opportunity" via mimicry of the various support AT procs which grant group endurance ala Corruptor's PBAoE +End in the Scourging Blast set or Defender's Bastion PBAoE Minor Heal. Possible Solution B: Expanding functionality of Vulnerability. I.e., granting the Sentinel a mimic version of old Defensive Opportunity while Vulnerability is active.