Without_Pause

To add, Kin's best DPA is in an attack which has a 3.036 Arcana Time and has a 20 second recharge. Claws isn't alone in this, but Kin's AoE really isn't that good either. Compare Shockwave and Repulsing Torrent. Scrapper numbers are 55.29 DPA versus 30.667 DPA. I've done Kin a couple of times, and I delete it every time. Today I did a mission with Tsoo, and I kept looking at them and going, "But it looks so cool." Regen wants sets with quicker animation times and mitigation with at least reasonable DPS. Claws/regen is popular for more than just Wolverine. Kat/regen has also been a strong recommendation.

Old school City of Data and the Calculator app. 🙂

The counterpoint is Kin's animations being on the longer side and the DPA being underwhelming. Let's take PBAoE. Brute numbers: Whirling Smash: Arcana Time: 1.188 sec. DPA: 36.51 // Needs Momentum Spin: Arcana Time: 2.64 sec. DPA: 29.86 // So skipping the Scrapper version. Dragon's Tail: Arcana Time: 1.716 sec. DPA: 28.72 Foot Stomp: Arcana Time: 2.244 sec. DPA: 26.39 // Rage not factored in. Axe Cyclone: Arcana Time: 1.767 sec. DPA: 23.6 Frozen Aura: Arcana Time: 2.244 sec. DPA: 26.47 Mass Levitate: Arcana Time: 2.64 sec. DPA: 22.434 Atom Smasher: Arcana Time: 3.168 sec. DPA: 21.24 Lightning Clap: Arcana Time: 1.452 sec. DPA: 21.199 The Lotus Drops: Arcana Time: 1.98 sec. DPA: 21.06 Rending Flurry: Arcana Time: 2.376 sec. DPA: 20.75 // Base damage no DoT, normal mode version. Fire Sword Circle: Arcana Time: 2.904 sec. DPA: 20.45 // I skipped the DoT because the numbers were already better. Eye of the Storm: Arcana Time: 2.772 sec. DPA: 19.12 Whirling Hands: Arcana Time: 2.64 sec. DPA: 18.71 Burst: Arcana Time: 2.904 sec. DPA: 17.95 Whirling Sword: Arcana Time: 2.904 sec. DPA: 17.23 // Assuming the DoT all hit. Spinning Strike: Arcana Time: 1.98 sec. DPA: 16.22 // Likely lower due to combo system, technically a targeted AoE Whirling Mace: Arcana Time: 2.904 sec. DPA: 16.08 Tremor: Arcana Time: 2.772 sec. DPA: 15.64 Spine Burst: Arcana Time: 3.168 sec. DPA: 14.48 // I technically did only 2 of the 3 DoT even though odds are that's on the low side. Typhoon's Edge: Arcana Time: 2.508 sec. DPA: 9.48 // Numbers are likely low due to being the finishing move in a combo. Also, /regen doesn't want to be caught in long animations.

Attuned IOs or purples only, and to be fair, most builds never see a purple in them. I tend to build for Def/mitigation, End management, and Recharge. Everything else tends fall into place.

Did I quote you saying that? Did you see someone else said it?

At that point I would just rather log on my Blasters. And saying Hurricane sucks on teams but Gale is useful due to KB has to be one of the more mind-numbing statements.

As long as as the slotting on Fire Melee is tied to a Resist set, it should translate well for combining it with any slotting from a Fiery Armor set. For me I looked at builds and took notes about slotting and slowly worked towards making my own builds. Even now I take multiple looks at builds before I finalize one.

I default to taking Fighting and Leadership on any character I make. More so for Kin as they want Tactics. Kin is terrible at getting set bonuses so it will be harder to build top tier mitigation numbers on it, but Hover/CJ, Maneuvers, finding spots for the two Resist IO: +3% Def , Weave, and Scorpion Shield can at least get you some baseline Def. Def > Res and more so on a Defender. You don't want to get mezzed. I have two mid/lower level BR characters so that's partly way I skipped talking about it. In terms of BR, it has one cone, so it isn't that terrible on a Kin. You can be in the middle of melee, and jump up to then use a cone attack.

Hurricane has a -30% -ToHit Debuff unslotted. Dark, known for -ToHit Debuffs, tops out at 15% for a single power. Poison has two powers which combined sit at 25%. If you wish to run around like a bull in the China shop, then by all means, your complaints are valid. If one is to actually understand the power and know that debuff lasts for 10 seconds one can go around 'painting' mobs and spreading the debuff around. One can also move mobs into places such as corners so the rest of the team can AoE them to death in relative safety due to that debuff being tied for 2nd best for a Corr and them being repelled into a corner. Hell, a warehouse mission is a damn near Storm user's wet dream. In a cave mission you can literally block off the pathway from melee based mobs reaching your range based teammates. So again, if you don't want to think about how to play a Storm support set and just want to use it for it's other tools by all means do so. That still doesn't mean it isn't an incredibly valuable tool.

Sure, on someone who doesn't know what they are doing. I highly recommend going out and trying out Hurricane and see how much you like it or not. It offers a huge -ToHit Debuff, but it is a rare power in that you actually has to think about how to use it.

@Snarkyswears by this idea, and I believe he's done work looking at combat stats to prove it.

As someone who ODed on Kin on Live, I have zero clue how Kin allows you stay at range. Transfusion. You have one of two options and the set bonuses are so similar to not really matter. Touch of the Nitcus likely wins out do to the damage proc and added Acc bonus. Siphon Power: 1-2 Acc. Repel. Assuming you are part of the .01% of people who even take it, some End Reduc and a KB to KD. Honestly, I can't be made to care due to how terrible the power is, and essentially goes against what Kin does. Siphon Speed. Slow Sets. Focus on Acc and Recharge. Toss in the two damage procs. ID. Gladiator's Armor: +3% Def and Steadfast Protection: +3% Def. You could likely toss in the KB Protection one as well. Speed Boost. However much End Mod you want from this. Preemptive Optimization feels like the best one as the 6-slot bonus is nice. IR: Another only if you take it. Add in some travel sets to your liking. You can get Slow Resist and more KB Protection. Transference: See SB, but you need Acc as well. Fulcrum Shift: 2 Acc and some Recharge. In terms of Epics, Dark doesn't offer much for a Kin. The big draw here is Soul Drain and Dark Consumption, but you have FS and Transference. I would look at Mace due to Scorpion Shield offering Def to S/L/E or Psychic due to a hold, Mass Hyp(Mass Hyp + FS = joy), and some Resist to Psy.

So you are trying to find out how well balanced armor sets are while skipping on taking two of the powers and powers are dealing with limited slotting. I don't think there's going to be much useful info coming from this.

While the term 'healers' was a talking point as CoH went against the holy MMO trinity, it felt like seeing the request to add one to a team on Freedom was like breathing. I think I pretty much had a 2 support minimum for teams. Good thing my main was a Kin Defender, and I defaulted to playing support overall. Now? I can be the only support on a team and we steamroll things. I've been on teams where I'm the only support, I'm playing TA, and no one says boo. Back before IOs, I had been on so many teams which literally wouldn't start without adding an Emp. The standard might be the same, but the old meta feels a bit like a foreign country.

And just am FYI, that build would exempt terribly as you lose the set bonuses if you exempt too low. My default is using attuned IOs outside of purples since they are already attuned.

+1/1 won't be a problem for anything using SOs. I'm not sure there will be that much variance if you went +2. I can't recall how much I soloed at +2 on my Claws/regen. The real issue is when you are to add in bigger mobs. WP is fantastic until the debuffs start cascading in. I do think Claws is a bit of a cheat as Shockwave and Focus can provide a decent amount of mitigation. Case in point, I would use Shockwave as my alpha strike. I think Fire does a better job of seeing if an armor set can stand on its own, but since all characters use it, it should be fine.

There is a narrative that the game is balanced around SOs and that the games in balanced around one hero taking on a mob of three. We are talking at the start of the game. That was Jack's vision. This was also back in the day where a diff setting maxed at +2, IIRC. That's +2 and whatever the team size was, again, IIRC. The problem is this: that Dev team is oh so very long gone, the diff setting got reworked under said Dev team, and they introduced IOs. Hell, there's a bunch more of the Incarnate system which was going to be added, but it got never added as that was going to be the end game standard. In other words, if you want to compare builds with SOs at the original diff settings, knock yourself out. However, the current team has offered no impression for what the game is currently balanced against. IOs are easier to get then ever thanks in part due to the current Dev team. And to be fair, even the team on Live never really stated what would be a new standard or what it was post IOs. I would argue the player base has taken over what balanced is. That's where things get fuzzy. Some people like the old standard SOs as a basis. Some aim for something higher, and then there are the min/maxers. Realistically, there is no standard. I personally play things which are fun. That for me includes IOs, so that's my standard. I've recently dusted off some level 50s which only have Level 25 Common IOs in them. I still feel like I contribute and the team steamrolled just fine. BUT, I noticed touches of End issues. The lack of global recharge. Just a bunch of little things which make me want to IO out the build knowing a build takes a leap with IOs. I remember taking a Spines/fire Brute from common IOs to IO sets and it was that, "Oh" moment where you knew you weren't ever going back. And yes, I got a chuckle recently out of street sweeping Hallows at Level 5 taking on mobs of 4 with no real issue.

It also means you spend time reacting via clicks versus simply attacking more. Bio is also click heavy, but it also is Bio.

I decided to play test this. Yeah, don't do that. Put more the damage procs into Slowed Response. You are far more likely to have them go off there if you do.

To add, I don't have a direct answer. I will say part of the difficulty is any set can be deemed acceptable, and yet be the worst set. Case in point, I find so many primary sets for a Defender as being way more than acceptable, and yet one of them wins out for being the worst. Soloing x8 has as much to do with the melee set as it does Regen. If the melee set is ST focused, then that's going to take more time to work through a x8 mob. My Ill/dark technically does AoE, and yet I have zero desire to solo that at x8. Giving Regen something like Ice is a significant boon to its ability to deal with things. Personally speaking, I would deem +2 on the lower end and more so if the character is 50+1. There are very few exceptions where a build would need to go against even level mobs if the build is done right. There is a red side mission where a mob is basically nothing but EBs. Heaven help you if you have your diff setting set for AVs. There's no shame in needing to lower your diff setting for that, nor I think Mr. G's arc even if I figured out how to do +3. I believe one of them does End Drain, Slows, and -Recharge. If you don't have a ranged attack, good luck. FYI, depending on how things spawn in a mission, I've had my /stone Brute have serious End issues against enough Mu. Regen has nothing to protect against End drain. TL; DR. If you can solo comfortably at +3/x8 on Regen on a rather high number of maps then great. I'm guessing every other armor set can do it as well and in some cases even more maps or even just having an easier time. Note, my namesake here was a Claws/regen Scrapper on Live. I used common IOs. It was fine for old school soloing for the diff settings we had at that time. End game mobs were a bit annoying though.

Add in any Psy or Ice attacks which cripples your Recharge. I've long come to the conclusion that anyone who says they solo +4/x8 that they mean Council. I've pulled that off even before hitting 50, so congrats on soloing Council at max diff when fully built I guess. Note, at sub Level 50 you also take on +5s and you are not 50+1. I've seen maps which can make even my /stone Brute not even remotely try at max diff. (waves to red side) Hell, stick a /regen in a Psi Cop mission and see how that goes at max diff.

For a Corr, I would have picked either Fire or Ice. Ice using its holds could be stacked with both players so even bosses are quickly held. For Sonic, I would have gone Defender since the -Res is better. I know doing the same build for both makes it easier to make the builds, but I likely would have just made two separate builds for a duo. But two Fire/kins are going to blow so much stuff up, so I'm not protesting. It is one of the genuine builds I would do as a Corr, and I had one on Live. I only did common IOs on Live so things got interesting on teams. 😆

Outside of the nerfs, you have to go outside of the box a bit to get it a decent level of mitigation. The problem is the standard isn't old school diff settings anymore where Regen would be fine at. Not when people can make builds which solo a high percentage of maps at +4/x8. In the list of issues for Regen, it doesn't even have resistance to being debuffed for what it does. It should at a minimum resist -regen and -recharge. I do think there are times when instead of fixing a set, the devs simply make a new one, see Willpower.

Depends on how you play. AVs are rare outside of TFs. I don't think I would hit 1%.

Your Resists are low. I can get 75% S/L on my /en Brute. I can toss you my Claws/en Brute build, but part of the difference is I skipped Taunt and Evis which means I skipped on two more powers in my primary which frees up more space for other stuff. I would recommend looking at skipping Repulsing Torrent. Its DPA is rather low although Burst isn't great either. Really, Kin struggles with AoE damage. I'm conflicted on CS since it clearly has the best DPA, but its Recharge is 20 seconds. Kin's ST damage overall isn't that bad. I haven't looked at Brute numbers to see if CS is actually worth taking. I default to going Energy/Body for melee, but EA can get away with not needing it and Kin can use help in the attack area, so choosing something else is a decent idea. Without Remorse - Brute (Claws - Energy Aura).mbd