Saikochoro

Don’t forget citations must be in APA format or no credit.

I haven't seen any of that, in fact I've seen exactly the reverse, Rebirth/Reborn//coxg players bashing HC and claiming that it's "just the old SCoRE boys club but on a grander scale" and therefore theirs are better. Honestly this is all I’ve really seen as well. A bunch of “i25 is a dead end” or “homecoming is connected to score and thus evil” mumbo jumbo. All the mud slinging seems to be coming from the other servers against homecoming honestly. I think they are just jealous that homecoming has the largest population.

I think a P2W boost to level 22 would be raged against honestly. The same people who have issues with power leveling would most certainly have an issue with this. I personally wouldn’t mind as that would help me with all the alts I want to get into the mid levels. Though 2-3 per AT wouldn’t be enough haha. I probably wouldn’t make any tanks. But I’d have like 15 brutes. No people will just have to adapt. The devs have made their decision even if not everyone agrees. There will always be those who disagree with any choice that is made. It can make for some good discussions, but it is rarely ever game breaking for anyone.

The point is you don’t know how big each portion of the population is. There are many opinions not even expressed from the people that don’t post. Your assumption is that those who support vastly outnumber those who don’t. However, that is only an assumption. Therefore, the hyperbolic question serves no purpose but to falsely lead the narrative.

Just a quick question. I know these a very different powersets. Just curious. I think the damage bonus for bio armor offensive adaptation is 25%. What is the damage bonus for AAO on shield? I know I scales with number of enemies, but was wondering what the bonus actually equates to and how it compares to bio.

I started making one with bio armor just for the adaptation flexibility and especially damage bonus in offensive. I am having a hard time wanting to use a different secondary honestly. But this thread is making me want to try TW with rad armor. Yep, guess I’ll be doing that tonight.

Inventing false hyperbolic statistics to try to prove your point doesn’t help anything. It is clear that only part of the population supports the change.

Yeah, played from Day 4 of Live. Never, and I mean never, have I played this game for the story/content per-se. Even a little. I play to make a Super and have that Super kick butt, then I get another idea and work on that one, etc. Leveling up the next idea _is_ CoH for me. Now, I don't want insta 50s at all, I can do that on a VM, but I do want to try lots of powersets and character ideas. Noen of which revolve around a story someone else is telling me - I make my own. So yeah, to even imply a little bit that 'most' veterans are here for the 'content' is simply false. I am sure they exist, but personally in-game, I have never had someone say anything along the lines of "let's run this content, I love the story". I could not care less about some minor XP changes in the minutae of the game, it won't impact me in the least from continuing to have fun. I don't understand people that look at patchnotes looking to nit-pick, never have lilke rules-lawyers, kvetching about rules changes like this is silly IMO. Exactly this. I don’t get why some people think the “content” is only valid if it is scripted stories and task forces. And then try to force others to agree with them and fall in line. While those are content for some, perhaps most, it is not content for all. And it is wrong to assume that power leveling and farming is not content for some people. Power leveling and farming is a staple in most every mmo. CoH is no exception. If anything I think it is more encouraged in CoH than many others due to the sheer amount of power combinations and AT you can make. Making and trying out new powersets is some of the absolute best “content” there is. And there is nothing wrong with skipping lower level stories so that you can get to a decent level to have fun with your combo. It doesn’t hurt others. It is not an invalid or lesser way of playing. It is merely different. Apparently some people’s styke of playing and definition of “content” is less valid than others. That is the crux of my issue with the change.

A quick count of people disagreeing with the changes in this 11 page thread is 6 vocal people everyone else seems fine with the Dev's balancing efforts. Thanks for all your hard work Dev's There are plenty of thread about it all with differing opinions. The original comment I responded to implied that the community in whole needed and supported this change. That is completely false. There is a part of the community that does not support it. I never said one was bigger than the other. Only that it is wrong to assume the community supports it as a whole. It is better to say, “part of the community supports this”. That is undoubtedly true. Saying the community needs this however is fully subjective and shouldn’t really be said at all. I’m not going to say the community needs DFB nor will I say the community needed it to be nerfed. Either statement is purely based on opinion. I will says that the nerf was definitely wanted by some and very much opposed by others.

The DFB nerf is foolish at best and highly counterproductive at worst. *snip't* It also sets a Dangerous precendent for other, long-running massively efficient XP/Inf farm TF's & trials like ITF. Especially since as far as i can find, this was a full-on stealth nerf to the Trial SPECIFICALLY to stop the "DFB to 20, -REDACTED- to 35. ITF 35-50" Loop a lot of us have been doing to power up alts. of note, is that instead of changing merit drop rates, they tripled the amount needed for a conversion, this sets up the potential to stealth-nerf the droprates over time. And now this with DFB. DFB was great because you could get to 22 (Low-level TF's SUCK and are absolutely horrible slogfests, and random radios are equally slow if you're just trying to level up) and it kept people from begging for PL's and crap from level 1. P. soon you're gonna see all the good 25-45 content get nerfed to crap too, it's got nothing to do with "Player choice" or "time/effort to reward ratio" either, that whole line is BS. 1-20 List it with me: DFB, Posi 1&2(Long as fel, useless) Synapse, DIB, Yin....Or random radio/paper/whatever missions AND OH YEAH, lets NOT FORGET VILLAINSIDE. which has EVEN WORSE OPTIONS IN THE 1-22 RANGE Make the drop-off point for DFB 20 instead of 10 (Because skipping the 10-20 content as well is less BS, especially redside) and just stop trying to nerf speedlevelling. This is City of heroes, you'll break the freaking game completely long before you beat powerlevelling. Also: It never was. AE PL's are still faster, PIPL's are still faster, but it was the combination of XP and TF Mechanics that made it great for leveling toons AND catching up friends or bringing friends into the game who've seen your upper-level gameplay and want to join in without being useless Having them stand at the door in AE/PI Farms doesn't teach them anything, rolling a new toon and doing DFB with them a few times on even footing not only gave them the same super fast levels, but also taught them significantly more about actually PLAYING THE FREAKING GAME. Lessening the rewards also hurts a solo player, i have a very specific loop i do on my alts, because i can literally hit 50 in a day without being farmed by anyone, all the DFB Nerf does is slow me down a bit. I'm trying to get numerous alts to 50 so i can help my friends that i keep running into by filling any role they need at the time With the old merit rate, the comical influence and XP that some TF's give, and my loop, it took no time to get a decent L50 build going. Still doesn't, it's just 66% more obnoxious and slow. All valid opinions, from your view, but none of us exist in a vacuum. We are a community, and we must not forget the negative impact exclusionary content has on NEW players. What got veterans hooked on this game wasn't powerleveling, it was the game content. Broken DFB type content robs new players of the experience we veterans take for granted. Your opinions are also only your point of view. DFB is not exclusionary content. In fact, it is some of the most accessible content available for all to participate in especially in low levels. Also you are also misleading by stating that all veterans were hooked by content. That may be true for some veterans, but definitely not for all. The friend who introduced me to the game loved farming and power leveling all sorts of alts. That was his absolute favorite part of the game. And he played it from sun up on day one to sundown on the last day. There were many like him. Although I’m not as into farming and power leveling as he was, my favorite part of the game was indeed having many many alts in the mid to high levels and testing them out. You are basically stating that power leveling isn’t content for players, when it actually is the content for many as that is what they enjoy doing. DFB actually improves the experience for part of the population of old and new players. It is an accessible and easy way to get in, team, and play with various powersets that everyone can do if they so choose. I wish I had had it when I first started out. I only barely got to try it on live.

Thanks for briefly playing with us. While the improvements to DFB and the OMG-raid may seem odd to you, the community needs and supports them. After all, life is a journey, where death is a destination. Keeping the game alive is about the journey. The changes to DFB/MSR we’re not improvements in the sight of all. Nor were they supported by the entire community as this thread alone has shown. Several people do indeed support the changes, and several people do not. The community is split on the issue. The devs just happened to agree that change was needed. However, it is wrong to say the community needs and supports it, as only part of the community sees it that way. There are always two sides.

Honestly, it wasn’t about learning more. It was a good way to get up to low to mid 30s to test out a new powerset combination. Many, perhaps even most, of us are veterans from live. The low levels are boring and a lot of people do t want to slog through then just to see if their powerset combination is worth investing more time into. Getting to mid 20s quickly and having a bit more of the build gives a better (though still incomplete) picture. The reasons for nerfing it was silly. People running through DFB to however many levels they wanted wasn’t hurting others. The mass majority of complaints I see from anti DFB posts were: - People should do the content instead just like me. Nothing is stopping people from doing the content if they so wish. - People doing DFB makes it harder for me to team. Again, no it doesn’t. Never had a problem filling a non-DFB team quickly. - It’s annoying seeing DFB advertised in LFG. LFG channel is for looking for group. So why shouldn’t people use it to fill a group for DFB. If you don’t want to join just ignore it. I don’t have a problem ingoring the myriad of LFG posts that I don’t feel like participating in at the moment be they for DFB or otherwise. - People shouldn’t level up so fast. Again, why? Why does this hurt someone who wants to do it slowly? It doesn’t. Nothing prevents people from leveling as slowly or as quickly as they want. None of these reasons are compelling in my opinion. Most of them are about restricting how another player enjoys playing the game, even though it has no bearing on how they themselves are able to play. It does not enhance other content. It just restricts a popular content. I always like more options. Not less. And this does not open up more options. The alternatives were always there. People just chose not to do them. This also will do nothing about getting people to play more story arcs or other similar content in lower levels. The same people who wanted to get passed the low levels quickly will still do DFB or AE, or find a power leveler. The same people who want to do Kings row story arcs will still do those. And they will still complain about people leveling too fast. So I’m the end, I highly doubt it will change any behavior (although the venue may change somewhat). People will still complain about people playing the game a different way than they want them to. All this does it make DFB less rewarding for people who enjoy leveling up new alts quickly. None of the root behaviors are changed and thus it is a meaningless nerf. Even so, the devs are the boss and I’m playing their game. So I will take it in stride. I have no intentions of leaving and very much appreciate all that they have done. I’m bound to not like some decisions made, but honestly that doesn’t matter. All that matters is that I still get to play, for which I am very grateful. This is a situation where knowing someone with a private server can be of great benefit. As I stated before, on a private server you have GM level access to everything. So, characters can be boosted to whatever level, missions can be run, and knowledge may be gained to see if this is something they might want to pursue on the "Live" server. Hopefully, there are enough folks doing private servers that this is an option for anyone using DFB to do research on powerset viability, and unhappy with the reduction in the XP curve. Sorry for the huge quote string. I’m on my phone and don’t want to deal with snipping. Anyway, I am by no means unhappy enough to do my own server. No in the slightest. Despite the tone of my post, I’m honestly not really unhappy st all with the change. I disagree with it, but it doesn’t make me like the game any less. I hate the low levels, but do not want an instant 50. I really enjoy mid 30s and up. I’d hate to skip the middle levels as those are honestly my favorite and that’s when I stop hunting for xp. I just enjoyed an easy way to skip the low levels to test out various power combinations. In the end I suspect it won’t change much for me or for the anti DFB crowd. So I feel it was kind of pointless. But that is only my opinion. They could delete DFB and I’d still be happy to play.

True Your experience, is one data point. Mine is a different one. I get that you haven't had issues filling a non-DFB team, but I have. There are likely reasons, and I am not saying DFB nerfing is the solution, but I am tired of hearing everyone say how easy it is to form a team. It takes NO effort to jump into a DFB team. It takes a lot of effort to find the players that are willing to team for other content. Impossible? No. Incredibly Difficult? No. Harder? Yes It is annoying. Not saying it's a reason to change, but it is annoying. And of course it's easy to ignore non-DFB posts - there's what, 1 non-DFB for every 10 DFB posts? Its hard to see the non-DFB posts, super easy to ignore them It doesn't hurt anyone if other people level up faster than me...agreed Is it going to dramatically change behavior? No of course not.Well let's see if that's true. Is every single DFB player going to just do one of those 3 things? Maybe, maybe not. Let's observe first... +1 Inf for being pretty fair about this... Honestly, even though the tone of my post was quite negative on the DFB change it doesn’t truly matter to me in the grand scheme of things. I disagree with it, but I can adapt easily enough. I just wasn’t fond of the reasoning most people put forth. I concede that my ability to form teams easily is anecdotal and other may have different experience. A number of variables could be st play as to why I can easily fill teams and other may not.

Honestly, it wasn’t about learning more. It was a good way to get up to low to mid 30s to test out a new powerset combination. Many, perhaps even most, of us are veterans from live. The low levels are boring and a lot of people do t want to slog through then just to see if their powerset combination is worth investing more time into. Getting to mid 20s quickly and having a bit more of the build gives a better (though still incomplete) picture. The reasons for nerfing it was silly. People running through DFB to however many levels they wanted wasn’t hurting others. The mass majority of complaints I see from anti DFB posts were: - People should do the content instead just like me. Nothing is stopping people from doing the content if they so wish. - People doing DFB makes it harder for me to team. Again, no it doesn’t. Never had a problem filling a non-DFB team quickly. - It’s annoying seeing DFB advertised in LFG. LFG channel is for looking for group. So why shouldn’t people use it to fill a group for DFB. If you don’t want to join just ignore it. I don’t have a problem ingoring the myriad of LFG posts that I don’t feel like participating in at the moment be they for DFB or otherwise. - People shouldn’t level up so fast. Again, why? Why does this hurt someone who wants to do it slowly? It doesn’t. Nothing prevents people from leveling as slowly or as quickly as they want. None of these reasons are compelling in my opinion. Most of them are about restricting how another player enjoys playing the game, even though it has no bearing on how they themselves are able to play. It does not enhance other content. It just restricts a popular content. I always like more options. Not less. And this does not open up more options. The alternatives were always there. People just chose not to do them. This also will do nothing about getting people to play more story arcs or other similar content in lower levels. The same people who wanted to get passed the low levels quickly will still do DFB or AE, or find a power leveler. The same people who want to do Kings row story arcs will still do those. And they will still complain about people leveling too fast. So I’m the end, I highly doubt it will change any behavior (although the venue may change somewhat). People will still complain about people playing the game a different way than they want them to. All this does it make DFB less rewarding for people who enjoy leveling up new alts quickly. None of the root behaviors are changed and thus it is a meaningless nerf. Even so, the devs are the boss and I’m playing their game. So I will take it in stride. I have no intentions of leaving and very much appreciate all that they have done. I’m bound to not like some decisions made, but honestly that doesn’t matter. All that matters is that I still get to play, for which I am very grateful. Performance numbers only show it on paper. And a lot of what I, and I suspect many others, care about is more the feel and flow of the combo. Sometimes you can really enjoy a combo that most would consider very subpar. But that doesn’t matter because you found a gem that works for you. I hate slogging through to mid 20s to low 30s to get a decent feel of the powers. But I completely accept that I may be in the minority. Even if the majority agree with me, I accept that the devs are going to do what they are going to do. Either way I still get to play.

Honestly, it wasn’t about learning more. It was a good way to get up to low to mid 30s to test out a new powerset combination. Many, perhaps even most, of us are veterans from live. The low levels are boring and a lot of people do t want to slog through then just to see if their powerset combination is worth investing more time into. Getting to mid 20s quickly and having a bit more of the build gives a better (though still incomplete) picture. The reasons for nerfing it was silly. People running through DFB to however many levels they wanted wasn’t hurting others. The mass majority of complaints I see from anti DFB posts were: - People should do the content instead just like me. Nothing is stopping people from doing the content if they so wish. - People doing DFB makes it harder for me to team. Again, no it doesn’t. Never had a problem filling a non-DFB team quickly. - It’s annoying seeing DFB advertised in LFG. LFG channel is for looking for group. So why shouldn’t people use it to fill a group for DFB. If you don’t want to join just ignore it. I don’t have a problem ingoring the myriad of LFG posts that I don’t feel like participating in at the moment be they for DFB or otherwise. - People shouldn’t level up so fast. Again, why? Why does this hurt someone who wants to do it slowly? It doesn’t. Nothing prevents people from leveling as slowly or as quickly as they want. None of these reasons are compelling in my opinion. Most of them are about restricting how another player enjoys playing the game, even though it has no bearing on how they themselves are able to play. It does not enhance other content. It just restricts a popular content. I always like more options. Not less. And this does not open up more options. The alternatives were always there. People just chose not to do them. This also will do nothing about getting people to play more story arcs or other similar content in lower levels. The same people who wanted to get passed the low levels quickly will still do DFB or AE, or find a power leveler. The same people who want to do Kings row story arcs will still do those. And they will still complain about people leveling too fast. So I’m the end, I highly doubt it will change any behavior (although the venue may change somewhat). People will still complain about people playing the game a different way than they want them to. All this does it make DFB less rewarding for people who enjoy leveling up new alts quickly. None of the root behaviors are changed and thus it is a meaningless nerf. Even so, the devs are the boss and I’m playing their game. So I will take it in stride. I have no intentions of leaving and very much appreciate all that they have done. I’m bound to not like some decisions made, but honestly that doesn’t matter. All that matters is that I still get to play, for which I am very grateful.

Lol...perfect

Please explain to me how this statement makes you the paragon of agreeable democracy, rather than exactly the sort of person you're complaining about? Nothing is stopping the OP from taking initiative to form their own groups. It is not difficult. It only takes a few minutes to fill. I have never once had to spend a long while filling a non-DFB group. Usually fills within a couple minutes easy. But instead, people like to complain and blame something like DFB (or whatever the next thing will be if it were to be nerfed). They think it’s better to infringe on others to fit their play style. DFB honestly doesn’t make it any harder to group up outside of DFB. Therefor, it’s not hurting those who chose not to do it. However, wanting to limit DFB does indeed hurt a large group of players. Nothing I said is limiting a person from completely ignoring DFB and forming their own groups. They are fully free and able to do so. However, they shouldn’t be free to dictate how others play. But perhaps that concept just goes over some people’s heads.

Bluntly, a lot of the calls for "transparency" are to stir drama up and cry how things "aren't being done" just because they are not happening fast enough. No, they're not going to give you daily updates on how every single aspect of the LLC is run. They got better things to do with their time, like actually run the servers. A lot of posters who complain about "transparency" are just trying to hold Homecoming to impossible standards to seed FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt) on players. If you don't like that Homecoming LLC is running the servers as a professional operation which requires them to comply with applicable laws, there are other servers out there that don't care and will happily violate COPPA in order to avoid having an EULA. Disclaimer: again, I am not part of Homecoming LLC. This is just common sense. I am not asking for each and every transaction that goes on every day. What I am asking is that they keep their promise to update us as they originally promised. Each thing that has been done lessens my trust in the team running this server. You are trying to make something legal while doing something illegal. I don’t want this to be run by NCSoft again and it appears that is exactly where it is headed. I have said my piece. No point arguing with those who can’t see the whole picture. It’s disingenuous for you to claim others aren’t seeing the whole picture if you yourself aren’t willing to see the whole picture either. Things take time regardless of whether you want them to or not. The fact that it has come this far already with a group of volunteers is outstanding. They will update when appropriate.

I think it comes down to this: it’s not enough for haters to fly in first class; they have to know that everyone else is in coach. The logical thing for people that are so bent out of shape with homecoming is to go to one of the other servers. But why would you chose the logical approach when you can just rage and complain and try to get everyone else to change so that you don’t have to. It’s a case of, I’m the only one in the world that actually matters. All others are just pawns to do obey my will or ants to be crushed under my boot. If it weren’t so, the haters would just calmly (most likely quietly) leave homecoming for one of the other servers.

Honestly, in my opinion, the only reason to consider something like this is if homecoming were to be shutdown with a C&D. Otherwise, there not really a point. The mass majority of the population is in a central location already (homecoming). I like pretty much all of the changes that have been made and would hate for homecoming to have to change something on their own servers to accommodate other servers. Plus it seems unlikely that it would be fully compatible due to some of the differences in i25 vs i24. So even if homecoming were to be targeted with a C&D, it’s unlikely that people would be able to keep all of their characters (perhaps even none of them if they zeroed in on sentinels and new powersets) if a central repository were made. So they’d likely have to start from scratch on a new server anyway. Seems like it would be time better spent on other projects to further improve homecomings own servers.

Thanks all. I think I will go with war mace first. And then try out battle axe at some point in the future.

And I'll third it. Motion carried, grow up people! Hey I got thirds! But in the spirit of the thread, I'll share. :) Only I should be able to be third. Devs please nerf other people who claimed third before I did. It’s not fair that they get to it so fast. They should take it slower and really enjoy reading past first and second before rushing to claiming third. In all honesty though, I fully agree with OP.

Sigh. Do you know how to make friends? If so, make your own team to do what you want them to do. Unless everyone gets sick of you trying to force them to do ONLY what YOU want to do. In which case I think we have identified the real issue here. There’s so many of your type on these boards. Just like in the old Live instance of this game. And the devs will listen to you because they, in general, want you to play the way THEY coded the game to work. They don’t like it, and take it personally, when we find ways to avoid doing it JUST the way they wanted us to. It was this mentality that led to a never ending path of nerfs in the old game, to appease their creative egos and now its yours, and other players like you, who are destined to try and enforce your views on everyone else. Go play how you want. I will do likewise. You won’t see me mounting a campaign to FORBID everyone from trying to play the game the way they want it to be played. Because I enjoy all of it and consider this a sandbox, not a game experience on rails that can only be played the way you want it to be played. I hope selfish attitudes like this don’t ruin this game the way it did the first time. Wholeheartedly agree. The problem with people like the OP is they only care about how they play and what everything/everyone to fit in with their mentality. Everyone else be damned who doesn’t agree with them.

I’d like a pair of 1911s on my dual pistols sentinel.

Exactly. There are several things I forgot or didn’t get to experience as I left before shutdown due to not having internet for a few years. I still no the basics of combat and enhancements, though had to ask a few reshreaher questions on IOs and optimal slotting of accuracy. It’s always nice when people take a moment to answer a question. Neither question was a make or break in gameplay, but helpful knowledge. Others ask more basic questions, which honestly isn’t much of an issue. Only takes a couple minutes to enlighten players. I fully agree that people not knowing how to do things is a scapegoat. Some people just don’t like that others have fun in a different way than they do and thus don’t believe they deserve to have fun. As is obvious by the type of request in the OP.