Monos King

That's kind of the idea yeah. You'd need to invest in the AoEs if you wanted to be at max stacks + get the insta casts on FB and CS. The lockout on CS is a secondary measure. Although in actual practice only one of the two could be fine, and might feel better as well.

The temporary power from Graham Easton's arcs is supposed to give +Defense and +Damage. Currently, it is displaying that it is giving +Defense Debuff Buff, improving -def powers, instead. However, the power still is actually giving Defense. It just incorrectly states it is not.

From what I understand, animation cuts can be done. The powers can definitely be sped up. So the above makes use of those rather than making new animations. I'm not that familiar with the process, however.

I want to just...verify that you and @JayboH have actually gotten around to reading this proposal. I go over what you guys are talking about already just enough to validate some of the changes, but I'm not certain either of you are in the loop. Kinetic Melee is a vicious underperformer, there is no doubt about this. Redoing the animations (or cutting them at least) is a major part of the post above. A general conversation about KM is expected to some extent in this thread, but I do ask that when these comments come up they specify what parts of the post have influenced them to be. Just so that it's on topic as best as possible. I also want to avoid a ceaseless back and forth without contribution from others (those tend to get threads locked). I appreciate the discussion you guys are having though! Thanks.

I think it might also be good to have stalkers AS adding a PS stack, will add that.

Pretty much, and I touch on that a little. The first three powers are some of the fastest available, and can get a decent low level DPS out of them. Burst has the same cast as Fire Sword Circle, Whirling Sword/Mace, and most breath attacks. It just only does damage at the end, and also sucks. It would suck even if the damage were upfront. Burst is a bad damaging power and doesnt have any real secondary effects to compensate. And Focused Burst, while offensive, is faster than Hurl, Boulder, and Impale. Of course, those sets also have something great going for them and just also happen to have a ranged attack. Earlier in the post is a quick DPS comparison, KM is genuinely one of the worst in game with ST and AoE. The issue with speed is primarily one of dissonance with theme, and the fact the powerset sucks at doing damage. Its kinetic, we want it to be fast. We're expecting it to be stronger due to what we're seeing, but with the lacking damage all the fancy windups becomes a clutter preventing us from getting anything done. Torrent is true trash in both damage and area coverage, Burst is okay if it does dmg upfront, FB is good in a vacuum but is in KM instead, so... There's also the distribution of long casts in the powerset. Stone is generally slower than KM, but it's strongest hit is swift. Most melee powers are fast to moderate in their attacks all the way up until the main AoE and the strongest attack. KM, instead, has front loaded swiftness in weak attacks, and then everything else is slow or very slow. Every other slow melee set is simultaneously really good, except KM.

Well, in this suggestion the new Power Siphon, Kinetic Potential, isn't actually necessary to get the damage bonus and -dmg debuff already. Just applying the Siphoned! effect and then attacking causes you to build damage, its just that KP increases the chance of the Siphoned! debuff happening. So if you keep hitting the Siphoned enemy (or applying Siphon to new enemies) you get everlasting damage buff unless you miss or they die. I'm definitely open to the toggle being permanent too, just would need testing to see if that's appropriate or perhaps overtuned. Also I'd love a full CS crit. I hate small crits. Think we got confirmation it'll never happen, but I'm still in favor.

Appreciate the kind words, would hope that this alleviates exactly what you are talking about with the 1st few abilities. In practice there might need to be even more opportunity for the later powers to enmesh with the special mechanics (maybe burst gets a damage buff) but on paper it looks agreeable currently.

Interesting. I'm not all-knowledgeable so keep me in the loop here, but I was thinking more about how Incarnate Powers are affected by Alpha bonuses, but aren't slottable for anything. This is because they literally aren't accessible to be be enhanced by players, because if they showed up on the enhancement screen they actually could be enhanced that way (unless they have some kind of tag I'm not aware of). I know that there are often bugs with powers where they just don't take an enhancement IO that they should and can be affected by, but that could just be the fact those have to be added manually. The idea was that players just wouldn't be given the Category "enhance recharge speed", or that the incarnate would simply be flagged as an exception. It's in experimental since I don't know how that might actually work, and normal unenhanceable recharge should work just fine anyway. There's a lot of overcompensation here (and elsewhere, see the original 6s duration of each PS stack) to guarantee the Damage Bonus is reigned in while still great in a way that's enjoyable. I ran those same recharge/uptime numbers and still included that simply because I wanted to ensure the Gaussian's benefit wouldn't start to become too prevalent with higher uptime. I think this is one of those things that would require testing to see if that's actually a moot concern, and having it up more often would actually be fine. Not to mention, Gaussian's could just be put into another 0ft toggle/auto if the player happens to have that, so it would be circumventable anyway in the right situation and they'd benefit. Still +recharge is very desirable, and KP would be letting players throw out the Siphoned! debuff around more. Either way, the goal is to actually make KM good, and comments like this reassure me we could use less restraint. I'm fine with the idea of it being enhanceable for recharge.

Think making the PS stacks go from 6s to 8s might be the superior option here, will add that.

Introduction The Proposal (See Highlights at the bottom). The aim is to differentiate Kinetic Melee from Energy Melee, while also using its theme as a canal for it's improvements and additions. Kinetic Melee focuses on siphoning the momentum and kinetic energy from opponents to empower the users attacks. They should be a self-buff specialist of sorts, with an accompanying more prominent debuff component as well. Also, for a set focusing on the "Kinetic" the fact that complaints of speed are chief amongst it's excoriations is very disappointing. Also of note: -The lack of crits on heavy hitting attack is torturous on Scrappers -It's unique crit mechanic is entirely redundant on Stalkers. -Limitation of 5 stacks makes a fast recharging Power Siphon less impactful than other Build Ups -Wind-Ups are unsatisfying for little reward The below seeks to address these issues. Key: | Experimental/Requires Feedback, Special Mechanic, Support Set, Kinetic Melee | New Mechanic: Siphoned! Effect All Kinetic Melee Attacks have a chance to apply the Siphoned! debuff to enemies Siphoned! enemies are afflicted with a small (10%), non-stacking -recharge debuff The debuff lasts 15 seconds, and is unresistable. The duration is not affected by purple patch. Future attacks can replenish the duration of the debuff. Attacks that successfully applies Siphoned! will also grant Power Siphon stack Synergy with Kinetics; Kinetics support debuffs from Fulcrum Shift and Siphon Power also have a chance to apply Siphoned! Using Kinetic Melee attacks on a Siphoned! enemy will guarantee a stack of Power Siphon, which now caps at 10 stacks for Scrappers, Brutes, and Tankers; caps at 6 stacks for Stalkers. Updated Power: Kinetic Potential (Formerly Power Siphon) Now a Limited Use Toggle that deactivates after 1 minute of use 2 minute recharge (Unenhanceable) (Cannot be slotted for recharge but can benefit from Alpha enhancements) Increases +To Hit for its duration, and increases the chance of KM powers to grant a Siphoned! debuff Minor user +Recharge buff Updated Mechanic: Power Siphon Stacks Now offers a scale 2.0 Damage bonus per stack (25% for Scrappers) Each stack lasts 6 8 seconds Caps at 10 stacks for Scrappers, Tankers, Brutes Caps at 6 stacks for Stalkers; Build Up instantly caps stacks along with its DMG buff Reaching certain stack thresholds empowers other KM attacks Once above 5 stacks (3 for Stalkers) the following powers receive a 30% cast time decrease while retaining normal damage Repulsing Torrent (2s > 1.54s) Burst (2.67s > 2.05s) Focused Burst (2 > 1.54)* Concentrated Strike (2.83 > 2.18)* Once above 5 stacks (3 for applicable on Stalkers) the following powers receive an area coverage increase Repulsing Torrent (45 degree arc > 60 degree arc) Burst (8ft > 10ft) Once above 5 stacks the following powers receive a range increase Focused Burst (40ft > 60ft) Repulsing Torrent (40ft > 60ft) Experimental: (These would be alternatives to the proposed cast time decreases on the above powers). The following powers are spenders, and would consume 5 stacks for their benefits. Concentrated Strike | Consumes 5 stacks for a nigh instant activation at 0.83s activation time Burst | Consumes 5 stacks for instant activation at 0 activation time These benefits can be used simultaneously for instant activation of both powers Updated Power: Concentrated Strike Now has a very high (80%) chance to apply Siphoned! to enemies Now possesses a minor crit, similar to Total Focus and Seismic Smash Only grants a stack of PS during a crit Once reached 5 PS stacks cast time decreases 30% (2.83 > 2.18)* Consumes 5 stacks for a nigh instant activation at 0.83s activation time Using the instant cast will inflict a Lockout for 30 seconds, While locked this power is not a spender Updated Power: Burst Has a very high (80%) chance to apply Siphoned! to enemies When afflicting Siphoned! enemies, has a moderate chance to grant Power Siphon stacks, but can grant a stack per enemy hit Once reached 5 PS stacks cast time decreases 30% (2.67 > 2.05) Once reached 5 PS stacks receives an area coverage increase (8ft > 10 ft) Updated Power: Focused Burst Once reached 5 PS stacks receives a 30% cast time decrease while retaining normal damage (2 > 1.54) Once reached 5 PS stacks receives a range increase (40ft > 60ft) Once reached 5 PS stacks cast time decrease 30% (2 > 1.54) Updated Power: Repulsing Torrent Can grant a stack per enemy hit Once reached 5 PS stacks receives a 30% cast time decrease while retaining normal damage (2s > 1.54s) Once reached 5 PS stacks receives a range increase (40ft > 60ft) Once reached 5 PS stacks receives an increase in area coverage (45 degree arc > 60 degree arc) Tables (Scrapper, Brute) Power Level Effect Quick Strike 1 Melee, Light DMG(Smash/Energy), Foe -DMG, Special Body Blow 1 Melee, Moderate DMG(Smash/Energy), Stun, Foe -DMG, Special Smashing Blow 2 Melee, High DMG(Smash/Energy), Foe Disorient -DMG, Special Kinetic Potential 6 Toggle, +To Hit, Special Burst 8 PBAoe Melee, Moderate DMG(Smash/Energy), Knockdown, Foe- DMG, Special Confront/Taunt 12 Ranged, Foe Taunt Repulsing Torrent 18 Ranged (Cone), Moderate DMG(Energy/Smash), Foe Knockback, Special Focused Burst 26 Ranged, High DMG(Smash/Energy), Knockdown, Foe -DMG, Special Concentrated Strike 32 Melee, Extreme DMG(Energy/Smash), Foe -DMG Disorient, Self +Special Tanker Power Level Effect Quick Strike 1 Melee, Light DMG(Smash/Energy), Foe -DMG Special Body Blow 1 Melee, Moderate DMG(Smash/Energy), Stun, Foe -DMG Special Smashing Blow 4 Melee, High DMG(Smash/Energy), Foe Disorient -DMG Special Taunt 10 Ranged (Targeted AoE), Foe Taunt Special Burst 16 PBAoE Melee, Moderate DMG(Smash/Energy), Knockdown, Foe -DMG Special Kinetic Potential 20 Self: +To Hit, +Special Repulsing Torrent 28 Ranged (Cone), Moderate DMG(Energy/Smash), Foe Knockback Special Focused Burst 35 Ranged, High DMG(Smash/Energy), Knockdown, Foe -DMG Special Concentrated Strike 38 Melee, Extreme DMG(Energy/Smash), Foe -DMG Disorient Special Stalker Power Level Effect Quick Strike 1 Melee, Light DMG(Smash/Energy), Foe -DMG Special Body Blow 1 Melee, Moderate DMG(Smash/Energy), Stun, Foe -DMG Special Smashing Blow 2 Melee, High DMG(Smash/Energy), Foe Disorient -DMG Special Assassin's Strike 6 Melee, Special DMG(Smashing, Energy) Build Up 8 Self +DMG, +To Hit, Special Placate 12 Ranged, Foe Placate, Self Stealth/Hide Burst 18 PBAoE Melee, Moderate DMG(Smash/Energy), Knockdown, Foe -DMG, Special Focused Burst 26 Ranged, High DMG(Smash/Energy), Knockdown, Foe -DMG Special Concentrated Strike 32 Melee, Extreme DMG(Energy/Smash), Foe -DMG Disorient, Self +Special Analysis, Reasoning, Concerns As noted earlier, the principal problems that are often discussed with Kinetic Melee are sluggish attacks, low damage, and a somewhat underwhelming mechanic in Power Siphon. For stalkers the auto recharge is obsolete entirely, and while the rest tend to feel the brunt of the other complaints the most. These changes are intended to address these complaints in the following ways. Speed Fixes The speed of the first three attacks for Kinetic Melee are actually pretty good. At 15% recharge bonus (afforded by a simple Offense Amplifier) you can do Quick Strike -> Body Blow -> Smashing Blow -> Quick Strike without pause, and gain 4 PS stacks which currently last 10s. The issue is with literally every other power. All of the other powers have ludicrous 2 and above second cast times. To make matters worse, the damage itself is only inflicted at the end of the animation. You have to endure the -full- animation before you can kill anything. Furthermore, the recharge of these powers are things like 12, 15, and 20 seconds. Too low to really proc benefit, high enough to be annoying as you level. Burst and Torrent are just DPA inferior Focus and Shockwave with higher rech. As such: Kinetic Potential offers a thematic 15% recharge bonus to help the recharge problems without cutting their base recharge and treading on claws 30% cast time reduction is possible on Burst, Torrent, and Concentrated Strike once above 5 stacks to speed along the damage that is inflicted 0.83s Concentrated Strike (with 30s lockout) and instant cast Focused Burst consumable for 5 stacks of PS Damage Fixes This is directly affected by the speed issues. The DPS of Quick Strike -> Body Blow -> Smashing Blow -> Quick Strike is about 68 DPS. For reference: Energy Punch -> Barrage -> Bone Smasher takes 3.43s to execute, and deals 257.75 dmg on a level 50 Scrapper, or 75 DPS. BA Beheader -> Chop -> Gash 83 DPS Stone Fist -> Stone Mallet -> Heavy Mallet 75.6 DPS And this isn't even the optimal rotation for the non KM melee powers. They can swap out and get better powers to kill waaay faster later on, meanwhile Body Blow -> Smashing Blow -> Concentrated Strike is still only 76 DPS. And Concentrated Strike cannot even crit. As such, the discrepancy becomes enormous on Scrapps and Stalks. As such: Concentrated Strike crit no longer recharges Build Up/Power Siphon, is given a small crit, the same as Total Focus and Seismic Smash. Concentrated Strike, Repulsing Torrent, and Burst receive a 30% cast time reduction when at or above 5 PS stacks Burst spends 5 PS stacks to gain instant cast, Concentrated Strike spends 5 PS to gain 0.83s cast (with 30s lockout) This means that while CS is on lockout, it still receives 30% reduction to cast time if above 5 PS stacks Power Siphon stacks now last 8 seconds, and each offer scale 2.0 Damage Bonus Animation Fixes Going along with the cast time reductions would be some animation changes during their enhanced states. Repulsing Torrent has it's animation cut to only deliver the final throw, and not the small charge up Burst has it's animation cut to only deliver the final throw, and not the small charge up Concentrated Strike has it's animation sped up, or has it's animation cut to only include the final move, skipping most of the wind up. Damage Concerns -Isn't 10 stacks of PS a lot? Scrappers could potentially get a permanent 250% damage bonus! -Is this damage buff enough to help brutes? They already get a lot of damage bonuses Build Up can be used much more frequently, allowing for more Build Up proc uses Build Up can use Burnout for further burst Siphoned! is chance based and requires a living enemy to be attacked so that the PS damage bonus is acquirable. Killing enemies quickly in an innate limiter on the buff potential Spenders limit the benefit of the damage buff by constantly exchanging the PS stacks for very fast attacks Cast Time Concerns -A zero and 0.83 activation time power that does Total Focus damage is insane, and kind of like Energy Transfer. Is this is a good idea? -Does a 30% cast reduction on only 3 powers make much difference? No idea if that's enough honestly. The area of effect increases will make the spread better, but those powers are pretty bad. Repulsing Torrent is so abysmal it might actually need even more, but the constant damage buff seems like it's good enough to balance it out on paper. At the very least, the ST damage will be quite good. Highlights (see Proposal for full details) Conclusions There have been many fine KM buff proposals, many of which I have enjoyed to see and would also like. Things like turning Torrent, CS, and Burst into individually extreme hitting attacks under certain conditions are also things I am fond of. But I have always felt as though KM needed speed to be truly thematic, so this proposal focuses on giving it an identity that's related to that. With the first power that has legitimate clipping potential on it's own, and the ability to build up to attacks with intensifying speed and debuffs, I think this one offers a unique possibility that gives it more identity. I also had a familiar idea of "each stack makes the next attack even faster" with something like 1 stack makes Quick Strike faster, 2 makes Body Blow Faster, etc etc...but that does require the creation of even more duplicate powers. Not mention it doesn't fix the abysmal numbers of KM. As always, check my math. I'm happy to continue the Kinetic Melee conversation with this piece, so please let me know criticisms and concerns in the replies.

For reference, 54 EBs have 5416 health, and aside from wonky cases like Olympian Guards and demoted AVs, have pretty standard powers. 54 AVs have 30 thousand health, hit just about twice as hard as EBs, and have exotic and powerful abilities that tend to also just hit harder base, on top of their roughly 2x dmg scale. The tremendous stat difference plus the much better powers make it usually take at least 10 same level EBs to even bring a standard AV to half health. Signature's like Positron and Liberty that have actual toggles and T9s? It's a massacre, and it's lovely to behold. Bosses and EBs can be relative to each other but AVs and GMs are craaaazy.

I like it. Maybe the PvP merits can also be converted to something else to make them even more appealing. Get enough and they can become aether, or something. Will the signatures sent to protect the pillbox be made necessary to take it over @Ston? Also: @RudraWhile the Signature characters sent to the Pillbox might linger (assuming the answer to my above question is no), 4 Level 54 EBs are gonna get slayed by a 54 AV/Hero. So luckily there's no concern there, the gap between AV and EB is massive. Take it from someone whose spent ungodly hours making NPCs fight each other.

I am inclined to agree.

I observed the same behaviors with some quick tests. I've noticed control hybrid in general doesn't work with various powers, including mind control confuses. It's possible the Breaking Stealth behavior is intentional in exchange for the -to hit debuff, but I hope that the lack of confuse stacking is in fact a bug. It's epic penalty recharge is more than enough to make up for the fact it's given to masterminds, and confuses are supposed to stack.

Damage is wrong, and it doesn't grant that much recharge. Neither does Cross Punch for that matter. Note the higher accuracy on brawl is simply due to it being enhanced. It is not, however, enhanced for damage.

This seems like a good time to pitch this again. Can all the new and old Nictus people be flagged to take the extra damage from the Void Hunter Rifle Temporary Power?

Super Old Typo and Icon Bug Hermes would be the Entity of Travel, not Joule. This should be using the caduceus icon instead of the lightning bolt.

Just went an rolled up a storm/sound blaster on live to test it out as well. Does not appear to be happening.

Looking into it now. It is still happening on beta. I can't currently confirm it on live as I don't yet have a storm character, but I do know one method that is causing this. It seems to be Direct Strike. No other power is causing the extra powers to show up. I noticed that upon using direct strike, at times, all the extra icons will appear in the owned powers menu. It would appear to be contingent on this Storm Cell Lightning Aura (Spread) power shown in my Pets tab. I'm guessing when it summons some extra winds, the exrtra powers show up. Couple Notes: -The extra powers do disappear upon logging out or zoning. -This is on a Blaster

What if normal Requiem got some of these changes. In fact, what if he got all of them, including the ability to revive and turn into a wolf? I think that's a great idea, we should do that idea.

This would help me with my anime character toons...

Oh nice, guess it's been a while.

Some notes: First time hearing of Mteru. Was that a dark astoria lore thing? Seeing Shiva elements be used for other things was nice Seeing Nictus elements be used for other things was really nice Would be cool to see Zukhara reference Tatiana in some way, or have unique dialogue if you've done Tatiana's arc. Legacy Chain references were cool to see Overall, loved the arcs. Love how villside kind of goes in a reverse order of events to the heroside versions. One complaint. 5 uses for a fluff temporary power is super lame. Temps like this that aren't really strong are essentially functional souvenirs, like Psychic Cleaver or Fettering Nimbus. They should have way more charges than this, at least 30. Temps with small amounts of charges are honestly a design flaw in my opinion, unless they are extremely powerful summons or unique/useful abilities. Binding only has the strong immob on the Unnamed, so it doesn't warrant this at all.

It's worth noting MM pets are already OP at leveling anyway, in a somewhat unintuitive attempt at making them useful against higher conning enemies (they could've skipped this by making the pets just not a lower level).