Monos King

based on toxic tarantulas powers, it should allow slow enhancements, but currently does not.

Seems like I do. The title is an error however, I meant that Tanks/Brutes widow is not allowing for Slow enhancements, and is instead showing To Hit debuff.

Power seems to erroneously slot To Hit Debuff (which the powers don't actually have) rather than Slows.

I'm young enough to have Snapchat on my phone, just to eye it with disdain.

I like this. I personally think you shouldn't even get the new LRSF unless you've played through the accompanying who will die arcs, but this would be an acceptable alternative. Pretty sure that's how MLTF was but I guess continuity is just moot.

I like this idea.

Oh I haven't given up, I just think we got a pretty decent amount of good suggestions that can be revisited when desired. The devs have certainly seen the most productive proposals as well.

Oh that's just a joke your comment is very much valid lol We are certainly very and unavoidably powerful once we're maxed out, and it would be silly to call content universally easy once we're at the precipice of power. There are just some other conspicuous factors, like how we got there.

That isn't quite the scenario that is being discussed here. I can find some quotes to bring you up to speed if you're interested, as I imagine you haven't in fact read "the entire discussion". Though this thread is now a discussion of iron man's morality and the meaning of being a hero so maybe that'll have to wait.

Another reason I'd like to see some thoughtful mechanics added to enemy groups and missions. I said this earlier, but incentive to play the game less hastily is also something that will help mitigate the out-pour of those that are too strong stomping on content with the lesser powered, and thus increasing those players sense of efficacy in teams. Also if it's any indication from responses in this thread, it'd probably be more enjoyable. Though I do realize some have expressed they aren't too fond of it as it exists now, such as Luminara, so perhaps we could think of some that would appeal to them as well. Then everything would check out.

I'm debating whether or not to let this thread devolve into "Determing Whether or not we're actually Heroes".

I can tell you are somewhat weathered by the topic. I've found myself informing nearly everyone that jumps over the last few pages of this, but you'll be happy to learn the point of this thread is not to discuss options to make the game more difficult or to suggest buffing enemies. You hit the nail on the head, at the very least a vocal quantity of players do not want things getting generally harder. Once you dissect the matter, though, you can find that a large part of the issues with the games ease don't stem from the ease itself, but from factors discussed throughout the thread. There are ways to address those issues beyond just making enemies more difficult; in fact in some cases, that wouldn't even help.

Like in Lambda instead of making mez short out some part of Marauders protection, they made a temporary power to cuck controllers and then spit on them by literally naming it a "Pacifier" grenade. Then while screaming "West Side!" it called it's boy Jocas just so they could mug mez itself in the Magisterium. Well, that might not be exactly what happened but it feels like it. I'm definitely of the opinion whatever trials may come in the future could fix that little problem.

That's a great question. I would say most MMs don't have a strong role on teams, but when there is an AV encounter they can really contribute to damage, assuming their pets don't die the first, second, and etc seconds in. Outside of that, they struggle to keep up with the quick pace of teams annihilating what is in sight. We all know there are a hefty amount of MM issues though, and the devs are working on them already. I don't play controllers. Some of the people I know used to. But they stopped, because they didn't feel there was much a point. From what I gather, many controllers have some pretty nice contribution to teams at the much lower levels, but once their team mates start really coming around their role is muted. The tanks were invincible at around 30 and collected maximum aggro, and the stragglers were obliterated along with the main enemies in seconds by blasters rinsing their nukes. Scrappers were kind of a mix of both. There didn't seem to be much room for "controlling". Speaking of which, everyone I know that plays Widows dropped them and decided they were just an ineffective amalgam of uneeded CCs and weaker scrappers. I actually disagree with that one, but putting it out there. There seems to be a brief period of like 39-44 where there is generally agreed efficacy in teams again (depending on the enemy groups that are being fought) but then that tends to disappear entirely in the next level when incarnates are a factor, and the greatest contribution is another wave of judgement. At level 50 and beyond, defenders (that don't offer +dmg or -res) have significantly less value, but I don't consider everything being easy when we're all maxed out to actually be a problem. I really have no idea what Sentinels even do. I assume they can take over the nuke everything route when blasters aren't around. When blasters are there...well I've seen complaints. Like I was saying, some people are content to just play and don't notice or don't care about this effect, but I do think it's there. I'll also acknowledge that if the team play involved the more deadly enemies in those upper levels, it would be less of a concern. But those enemy groups are rare, out of the way, and offer no greater rewards. Most players cruise on past them, accrue enough power to overcome them just as fast, and at that point DPS is the dominant strategy. The players that weren't progressing as fast, or don't have dps generating means are just not as valuable. The solution then to appeal to this side that feels less valued, is not to nerf anyone, but to give them a greater role through various means.

Slightly unrelated, but I was playing on the hyper OP server formerly called Cake, and was absolutely delighted at what I could do. Cake is characterized by SUMMONING AN ARMY OF ENHANCEABLE ELITE BOSSES and literal tyrant powers and of course And I was enjoying challenging myself by soloing Magisterium, and Hami, and other ridiculous things. No matter how exceedingly OP you get, you can probably create a challenge for yourself in this game. So yeah, simply being strong isn't an issue if what you're looking for is a way to challenge your build. If what you want though, is to join any team and be able to effectively do your thing there, it's likely you'll find some obstacles in the form of people being way too strong to need you. Even though cakes insanity is fun and you can create a challenge for yourself, as you might expect...team playing is completely dead. Greater individual strength negatively affects individual efficacy in groups, and because you can rack up that individual strength quickly, you get people that aren't entirely happy. I think at the end of the day it does come to a matter of values. Some players just enjoy playing. Indiscriminately, unconditionally, will-never-PvPingly. And they find fun in whatever they erect for themselves. Others are a bit more particular. As long as one side doesn't intrude on the other, I think it should be fine for us to just look at options like this.

This is natural, and a byproduct of both Nash Equilibrium and Dominant Strategy of Game Theory. As a result, doing anything else when these options are available quickly becomes "going out of your way", so I wonder if everyone actually enjoys those Architect farms, or just finds the rest of the game to be a hassle. I'll admit I do find that to be an immense shame, as there is a lot of content that makes the game special that is skipped over as a result of it. But people at the very least seem to like it, and that sort of things been staple since the game began, so I see it as fine. This is true. But a lot of players don't want to glide through content - more specifically they don't want to be carried through content. One of the recurring reasons easy progression is an issue for some is the lack of role efficacy; I.E. not feeling needed on teams. We're looking for ways to address that without intruding on people who like the game at it's existing level of "difficulty", while also offering some amount of tactic. Here's a brief recap of those. 1) Customizable Incarnates courtesy of @Snarky In exchange for lowered strength, you can alter the stats (or even nature) of incarnates. This would be done via an accompanying "side" slot option, or perhaps via a different slot altogether, and may or may not require additional salvage to do so. Will be entirely mutually exclusive with ordinary incarnates. 2) Incarnate Alternatives (Breakthrough) Similarly in exchange for much lower potency, the option for more thematic and versatile end-game augments that are also mutually exclusive with incarnates. These are more in line with strong temporary powers, and are perhaps unlockable separately via conventional (non incarnate) progression and crafting. Characters that take breakthroughs are not incarnates and can't become them, but will still have similar level shifts in trials so they can participate in them. Through the use of appealing alternatives, content would not be as saturated with game breakingly powerful characters, mitigating concerns of feeling unneeded in teams. 3) Increased means of lateral progression courtesy of @Luminara Engaging in certain content is increasingly incentivized via additions such as additional souvenirs and unlockable emotes. In my opinion these options shouldn't be put in Ouro (much like a vast amount of temporary powers) but that would need community review. This takes inspiration from the affect badge hunting sometimes has in content, and while people would probably still just skip over that content and revisit it at higher levels, it might still lower progression speeds. People also might just like the additions. If players have more reason to slow the quick climb to extreme power, then lower content will be less saturated with those that have extreme power. 4) New mechanics or enemies Mechanics that encourage thoughtful encounters amongst enemy groups would be one's that pretty much say "hey, you shouldn't just try to burst dmg these guys. There's more to it". This could be things like holds that disable high resistances or auto powers(courtesy of @oedipus_tex), debuff auras, dual victory conditions, or other possibilities. Maybe even we could get endurance drain to be useful by facing enemies with a pesky ability than will deactivate if the enemy loses a certain amount of End. Obviously we wouldn't be creating encounters that REQUIRE other roles; it wouldn't become impossible to overcome a certain boss with just blasters, but it would become so much easier with a source of mez or a certain strategy that you would be a boon if you could provide these utilities. If certain roles can find greater use compared to DPS, extreme power will be less of something that renders others useless. Some honorable mentions; I would love to see this idea in a mostly preserved form once the kinks are worked out. As it stands, the big issue is certain TF enemies are fixed at 54, which would make those that don't have incarnates endure greater difficulty than before. If those were adjusted, I think this stands to have genuine community consideration. This isn't particular to the point of this thread, but quoted for truth. When things are made more difficult, there should be a little something extra to incentivize doing so.

That is the position this thread has been primarily focused on breaking down, explaining, and remedying. I believe this is the 8th entire I'm saying this, but I also don't think the game being easy is bad; it's better for some of our delightfully weathered community. But it is also a problem for others, so looking at means to offset the actual problems easy progression creates (people feeling like they don't have worth in teams, people not feeling like rewards are worth anything because they came too easily) is worth doing. The thread has long progressed past this point, and there is not a point on it I have dodged. Snarky himself has moved on, and we have thought up some interesting ideas in the actual spirit of the thread. I will not humor this comment.

Your opinion is appreciated. However, I also understand you probably haven't read this thread, as it very much is not any of that. If you would like and are interested, I can try to go back and quote some of the major points.

I think it works to most of the players benefit, if what you said now is any indication. That being said, I would like to keep exploring options to ensure the sense of meaningful role in groups, even the powerful ones. That way we'll have new content that's both different, and enjoyable for a part of the population that might've otherwise found it not so enjoyable. Posts like yours are a gentle reminder that not everyone is challenge obsessed though, and helps keep everyone in check respectfully. Appreciate the responses!

This is true, and it's only expected considering human nature. You want to use what's available to you, why wouldn't you. And it plays back into the idea of dominant strategy earlier discussed (you'd want to scroll down on that link) where it's only natural you do what is most effective. Standard progression would probably also not include getting attuned IOs as you level and accruing mighty stats by only level 30, but that's actually very common now. Amplifiers are also about as guaranteed as enhancements, as are pay2win temps, so it would make as much sense not to get them as it would to not enhance. As such, here we are. I'm going to admit one thing though, I really hate PvP IOs dropping outside of PvP. That really sucks to me, for a variety of reasons. I wish they didn't. It also plays into what we're talking about here, those PvP unique are pretty powerful. But if I'm being honest, that one I hate primarily just because it deincentivized one of the lead reasons to step into PvP.

I try my best to steer away from the conversations that are that discussion, because it is very much not what is being examined in this thread. Some of that will leak in inevitably since the subject of difficulty is apart of it, but I want to emphasize that that isn't my goal here. Looking at progression as a whole is, and the impact of said progression. Once we're maxed out the game will be easy, and as Faultline noted, this is the case in all games. But being able to become that powerful isn't an issue, it's awesome. It's just that getting there is so guaranteed, that the consequences of said power (IOs, attuned IOs, incarnates) trickle into lower content. You're not wrong, though. The praetorian enemies are far more challenging to navigate, as are rularuu. Vanguard Sword is one of my personal favorite, those guys are beasts. And lower level content on it's own doesn't have the biggest offender (incarnates) so it's still an experience that has a good panel of obstacles.

We can ignore those guys, rewards aren't going to be reduced like ever so there's no point in even humoring it regards of the potential consequences of doing so. I know there's a swimming dog somewhere sniffling about it, but we all know that ships sailed.

I'd like a weapon accolade that does immense dmg and -regen to non-humans.