Lost Deep

Regen is a deeply flawed gem. It's fun, but it's in a wonky matter. It likely is one of the weakest defense sets in the game, but it still has a unique feel and mechanics. That said, even being one of the weakest defense sets in the game it still works, it just doesn't handle crisis situations well. A lot of the time your regen is high enough that the enemy doesn't really have a chance to beat you; you will literally out-heal anything they can do. However, if you can't out-heal the enemy damage output, it has a MUCH harder time. It's still usable, but I'm not surprised it isn't on tanks yet. How it feels will really depend on how far back you used it. In my opinion it's better than Super Reflexes, but still not in a great place. If Regen doesn't work, try willpower: it still has a good amount of regen, and other options besides.

This might not be good for an emergency fix, but the poison support set needs to be looked at. It banks on debuffs instead of buffs, which fits but has limitations that buff powers don't have. Specifically, you need to re-apply them every encounter. It has some really good powers (neurotoxic breath) but the rest of it is limited by the small, basically melee range AoE areas and some odd decisions (A single-target hold at tier 7?!). People have mentioned splash effects or what have you, but the mere act giving Envenom and Weaken better areas and giving Paralytic Poison something so that it isn't just a worse Tier 2 control power would go a long way.

My biggest complaint is that it can be hard to tell what effects are active on the enemy specifically. I fully respect that some of that is supposed to be secret information, but I mainly mean it in regards to debuffs the player themselves can throw out. When playing poison, traps, or other sets big on debuffs it's important to be able to see whether your debuffs are active on a target: a lot of powers have either effects that can be hard to see or visual effects that don't last as long as the mechanical ones (near as I can tell). The current setup is better than nothing, by all means, but there's a lot of overlap and if the screen is busy it's hard to determine the debuff status at a glance.

Regen is definitely fun. It's wonky, and I like wonky, but I feel like it could still be wonky fun and work a bit better. The thing about IOs is that balancing for IOs is damagingly exclusionary; some people don't do IOs until 50. Some don't do them at all. Some have a single panacea they got as a gift and that's it. Balancing for IOs will more or less mean that the game will be unbalanced for a chunk of the playerbase, and especially with the raw amount of funds it takes to farm up high-end IOs it takes a time investment not everyone wants to put in. Ideally, power sets (also archetypes etc) should be fun at every level of play. This isn't always going to be true, there's late-bloomers and sets that some people like and some hate, but the target for balance should be fun at every level of play. And Regen is, eh, pretty good but could use some improvements. Also, part of the reason to improve regen is to get it solid enough that it could apply to tanks; right now it feels like Regen does not have the consistent staying power needed to take the rigors of being a main tank, and if that can be fixed the power can be proliferated and more characters are possible. The reason for this discussion is to figure out how to get it there while keeping it fun.

I feel like this needs to be looked at closer and talked about more. Regen without instant healing is so different from regen with it: whether you use instant healing correctly defines whether you're using one of the BEST defense sets in the game or one of the WORST. That's insane! This isn't a T9 Capstone, nor is it an early-game core power: you get it at level 28! The sheer difference here needs to be addressed. If nothing else, anytime instant healing is on cooldown you're running at low power. If instant healing has to take a moderate nerf to move some of that power to other parts of the set, I'd take it. If Instant Healing is this essential to making the set function correctly, then buffing instant healing isn't solving the issue; it's just improving the band-aid.

Okay, here's my thoughts on the matter: 1. Regen is VERY click-heavy, which is okay but it also needs those clicks more. 2. Regen has no resistance to regen debuff, not that I'm aware of. This is bad. 2a. Regen's debuff resistance is in general atrocious. In that there isn't any. Ever. 3. Regen has a very particular feel to it... either you have enough base Regen that your green bar is full all fight and you don't care or you do not and wind up using all your clicks and praying. There is no middle-ground. 4. Regen's weakness of sheer incoming damage is strange because there's no one band of the game where it's more or less prelevant. Two boss spawns unluckily close together? Surprise warwolf? Did not see the lieutenant at the back of the spawn? Unlucky patrol? All these things can and do mess up regenerators. 5. points 3 and 4 might read like things that are holding the set back, but they're also an essential part of its identity and playstyle. My thought is that the set needs some mix of debuff resistance and better passive/click balance. Either increase the passives and toggles so that the clickies are less needed, or improve the clickies so that they're the for-real backbone of the set. Right now it doesn't really have one backbone, passives/toggles and clickies are both very reliant on the other on a regular basis, neither one really feels like a bonus. If broadening regen is needed, here's my take on it: Regeneration as a mechanic is unique because it doesn't care where the damage comes from or what kind of damage it does: all it cares about is that the green bar is not full. In effect, it's a mechanic that gives even survivability against any source of damage, and if it were to be widened that's the theme I'd want to follow. Absorption is an easy addition, but I also feel that absorption should get its own defense set someday. General damage resistance against all would keep the feeling of 'doesn't care about source' if needed, but again this is only IF broadening the set is honestly truly needed. I don't know if broadening the set is needed, but the nature of CoH is that prevention is better than cure quite literally. If nothing else, it could be considered if other changes don't feel right.

That's the point: VEATs do have a +recovery bonus and they STILL have huge endurance issues. For me, my soldier is the one character I've made with the most pervasive endurance issues no less! It's almost like all VEAT powers just cost more endurance than comparable ones in other ATs. Apart from that, most of these ideas are pretty common in the community and I really hope that VEATs get some kind of overhaul soonish. For me, my biggest gripe is that there's a lot of power overlap: instead of Bane, Crab, and default wolf powers having very different progressions, wolf and crab are almost exactly the same save for the damage type. At the same time, Night widows and bane spiders are just worse versions of /ninjitsu stalkers. Meanwhile, fortunatas get an entirely alternate progression? How is that fair? It's hard to point at any one part of the VEATs and say 'that works well' or even 'that makes sense'.

The thing about mass confuse (and confuse in general) that you have to remember is that enemies defeated by confusion (one way or another) do not give EXP. While confuse abilities are still very useful, this means that using them still risks you getting less EXP. I don't really care about this, but some people or teams will and do. I'm not sure what the easy fix is, since if it's changed to counting toward EXP then people will use it and then hang back to soak, something that the current setup does admittedly prevent.

I'm also going to vouch for the Eco-Friendly Powerset Recycling thread. I do think they should be tweaked to give them overarching mechanics, but there is a LOT of good ideas in that thread. More earth powers would be great; it's one of the basic elements that feels like it should have a full family but doesn't. Earth blast, Manupulation, and Affinity would round it out nicely. These are likely the addition from the thread that most people would appreciate. But, for my personal top wishes? Good options for natrual-origin heroes that really sell the feeling of just being a normal human having the right training and equipment. Well, in that thread there is: Throwing blades heck yeah Urban assault/warfare, which maybe should have a different name but is definitely someone's aesthetic. Trickery: Feasible natural-origin control set. Munitions, Tactical Rifle, and Rifle Assault, for when you just need more gun Arsenal and Artillery blast for more perfectly itching the robotic and power suit fantasies And, my favorite, Utility Grenades, which is exactly what it sounds like. Now, Realistically implementing all of these would be a lot of effort and there would be a lot of overlap (in particular Arsenal and Artillery Blast would be a lot of work with a lot of overlap), but the idea of the hero or villain who operates with just gadgets and skill (or properly used technology) is a harder one to make happen in CoH. The biggest holes in it are Support (which just has traps), Assault (ninjitsu assault) and control (which has nothing). If I were to choose one set from this lineup to add to CoH to round it out more... I'd choose Trickery, followed by utility grenades.

My thoughts on inherents is that an archetype inherent is supposed to help define an archetype's role in the game. Here's which ones I think are the most trouble right now: Conditioning: Yeah, it adds up if you build for it, but it does nothing to define the VEATs' role in the game. Honestly, the more I've looked into them, the more I feel like VEATs need a major overhaul. I have a soldier and he simply is not as good as other characters I run: I can run -1/x2 with my blaster, but not with the VEAT. Cosmic Balance/Dark Sustenance: As HEATs are meant to be flexible in their roles, this has less of an issue with definition than Conditioning but it's still a very passive effect and useless for solo players. Critical Hit: Neat idea, but I feel like it needs something. What I don't know, but it's sure less impactful than Brute Fury or Stalker stuff. I want to say it needs powers that interact with it, but that's stalker's thing. Opportunity: Opportunity is a MESS, and I think fixing it will go a long way toward fixing sentinels. It's a situational buff you can't control (as taking the basic powers out of your rotation is asking for problems), that does team support AND extra damage AND survivability (but not all at once!), that calls for the user to alter the rotation and limit their builds to make the most of. I've wound up completely ignoring it and whatever opportunity I get is the opportunity I get, it's better than trying to game the system for me. I think that it should be changed to something else, preferably something nice and passive. Defense boost from using primary set powers? Something. Vigilance: I think the fact that Vigilance is so complex and messy is telling of how hard it is to find a good passive that doesn't kibosh soloing for defenders. What's worse is that I have no ideas on how to fix it. Brawl and the Origin Attacks: Brawl and the basic ranged origin attacks are really bad. Like, even for being tiny baby attacks for baby characters they're REALLY bad. I guess now with free stuff from the P2W vendor and more options from power pools it's less impactful, but... still. I wouldn't be against them being marginally less useless. Brawl is so useless that it gets buffs from the fighting set and is STILL useless afterward. And the ranged power has a low enough range you can't really work it into game-start ranged attack rotations. These are the ones that strike me as needing the most help. I'm not saying others couldn't use tweaks, I do feel scourge could use a slight buff, but I think these should be top priority. EDIT: I forgot domination! Darn domination. It feels bad running a Dominator without domination up. I've had to say, 'no, I can't do anything to control that boss right now' because domination went down. I get that there's a dedicated Permadom community, I respect that. But! I feel that it should not be the baseline for making Dominators work well. As someone who doesn't yet do IO builds, I just want to play as a dominator and be baseline useful on a team.

Traps is enjoyable, I wish there was more options that could sell a technology/natural support set, but it does what it does pretty well. The biggest gripe I have is that in a group it's hard to make good use of it because most of it has long cast times and no range. For soloers, however, it's great. The caltrops, the shield drone, the ability to pull targets into an acid mortar. I could see an argument for recharge reduction (that'd help with the teaming, too, that or some kind of repositioning) but I don't personally feel it's needed. I have it on a corrupter and it gives me a lot of options for when just DPS isn't enough. Though, I admit I don't have experience with the upper part of the set yet.

Yeah, Aid Self is not in a good place. If nothing else, it should have the fact it can be interrupted in the description somewhere. I've read most of the thread by now and... good point, I didn't think of that. Intriguing, but I still feel that the fact that the concealment pool gives OTHERS better advantages than it gives yourself is bad. True, but some power sets just have enough skippable powers that you can pull it off: my favorite mastermind uses them instead of the mastermind basic attacks. Even alone they're not as bad as some powers: I'd rather have Kick as a part of my rotation than brawl (Believe it or not, yes, that has come up for me). In addition, tough and weave are some of the powers that I'm willing to get a useless attack to get them on a squishy. I'm not super happy about it, no, but I'm willing. Please do not make tough or weave inherent. This will homogenize builds in a great hurry, it isn't like if someone wanted to improve brawl or the like: Literally everyone having two defensive toggles with no investment would change the feel of the ENTIRE GAME. At MOST add a passive ability to fitness that increases defense a tiny amount (2.5% TOPS), but even that would be entirely needless power creep. If you want easy and cheap defense, you can get combat jumping at 4 and it costs next to no endurance.

Okay, I haven't read the rest of this thread, but here's my thoughts fast. Concealment: Has too large of downsides for the upsides it gives you. Stealth is basically useless once you enter combat and Invisibility is liability. But then... grant invisibility actually does what maybe it should? Stealth and a defense bonus. Why can't a concealment character give that kind of no-strings-attached bonus to themselves? I can see misdirection being useful, in my opinion it's better here in a power pool where it's generally available than attached to stalkers. However, it's not worth picking up two other powers out of the pool for. Phase shift similarly: I can see someone making good use of it, but I'm skeptical of it being worth taking two other abilities. Fighting: Is actually impressively effective. Personally, this is my golden ruler for all the other power pools; once you get all three attacks they're surprisingly effective and tough and eave adds a little extra durability to any archetype that lacks it. It's not a must-take on every character, but it is notable enough that it's well-appreciated. Flight: Hover is good, despite what the numbers may say: The mere ability to avoid melee attacks in most tilesets is worth taking if you're a squishy blaster or the like. Air superiority is a great extra melee control attack, again not something you want on every build but can be useful if you want to solo and you're short on control effects. But then fly, group fly, and afterburner... the truth is that in order for fly to be effective you need to take both it and afterburner. This makes it (to my mind) the worst travel power in the game: no other travel power takes two power slots. Group fly is also janky as others have gone over, I think it'd likely be best if it was an AoE click buff instead of a bubble set up, maybe with fall damage immunity that lasts for a few seconds after the ability fades. Leadership: This is another set that could be used as a standard, with the exception of Victory Rush. Those people who can figure out how it works tell the rest of us that it isn't worth it, and the mere fact that how its used isn't clear from the description is telling for me. Maybe it could be clarified, maybe it needs to be tweaked, at least it needs to be looked at. Leaping: Jump kick isn't relevant. The damage isn't garbage (on paper, anyway), but it also isn't notable and the bonus effect only triggers 20% of the time. There's so many pool melee attacks to choose from that there's ultimately no reason to care. Combat jumping and acrobatics are both well-regarded among archetypes that need a little extra defense, and Super Jump itself is my favorite travel power. Spring attack seems really cool save that it has a two minute cooldown. Is that really necessary? Ultimately, to me the strangest thing is how much Leaping overlaps with Fighting. Medicine isn't as good as the fighting set, and I agree it would benefit from tweaks, but it's still a sight better than concealment or presence. Aid other is well-liked by masterminds without healing secondaries and Aid Self works as advertised. The casting times are all very long (remnant from this being one of the first power pools iirc), but that's really the main weakness it has. Presence: Presence I have complicated views on. The taunt effect is well-liked by tankerminds, and as said above I can see someone getting good use out of a passify effect EXCEPT that this version of it is single-target and if you're having trouble against a single target it's likely a Boss that will ignore your passify effect. Otherwise, you'll have to ask someone who's actually played the set: I admit I haven't yet. I can see Invoke Panic and Intimidate being situationally useful, but not to the point that I've grabbed the set yet. Unrelenting makes me want to grab the pool, but I don't want to invest in two other powers in it. However, the biggest bee in my bonnet is that this is the perfect place for Confront. TANGENT: I like confront. As a solo player, Confront is super useful for pulling mobs and controlling engagements. Only issue is that it's stuck on Scrappers, which don't need the help. It COULD go in the presence pool and be available for anyone, and it still wouldn't be as good as taunt as available to tankers or brutes. I'd love confront on a blaster, Sentinel, or corrupter! On a Scrapper it's... just there. Speed: Flurry is HOT GARBAGE. Super speed is fun? You need to get a jump pack from P2W to get it to work but from my point of view that means its more viable now than it ever has been. Whirlwind lacks impact, and burnout is so situational that the only way I can see burnout being used well is if someone made their entire build from the bottom up to benefit from burnout. Haste is... man, I don't need to tell you that haste is overpowered. At least, for a Tier-1 pool power it is. My angle on haste is that instead of nerfing it move it to burnout's position, kick out burnout entirely, and make a new power. A closing attack maybe. Haste isn't too powerful for CoH in my eyes: It's instead too powerful to be available to literally anyone at level 4 with no investment. Teleportation: Big oof. Teleport friend has its uses for sure, and I've heard some people enjoy teleport foe, but teleport itself is a mess and everyone has an idea on how to fix it. Mine is to increase the base range, shorten the animation time, and make it so that the auto-hover only kicks in if you're not touching the ground. I'm unsure of Team Teleport (especially compared to Assemble the Team) and Long Range Teleport isn't super useful now that we have enter base with passcode for fast travel. Sorcery: I'm pretty happy with sorcery. Power pool basic ranged attacks have been needed for a LONG time, and most of its powers are situational but not cripplingly so. Yeah, mystic flight is better than both flight and teleportation, but otherwise this seems like a good pool to me. Experimentation: Speed of sound is amazing. Otherwise, nothing has really left me disappointed. Maybe in part because I have it on a MM so I always have an ally around for injection, but so far I like it. Force of Will: Weaken resolve in its current form isn't really worth it. Otherwise, looks good. Gadgetry and Utility Belt: If these follow the setups of the current origin pools, I'll be happy. In short: Concealment and Presence could definitely use looks. I want to say 'they don't need complete reworks' but between the buffs and some re-arrangement it'll basically be re-works. Fighting and Leadership are both really good (except for Victory Rush, how does it work?) Travel power pools are all really dated, especially with the origin pools coming out. In that same vein, with the origin pools coming out the vanilla travel powers are all dated. From a raw mechanical standpoint, there's no reason to choose Super Jump over Mighty Leap or Super Speed over speed of sound. Arcane flight actually makes two different travel powers obsolete. There is no power in the Speed pool without some kind of issue. The closest thing the speed pool has to a well-tuned power is only that way because you can get a bandage fix from the P2W store. Haste, even if you don't want to nerf it, has no business being available alongside boxing or hover. Origin pools are all very nice, the ranged attacks are great for melee toons or Masterminds, some powers might need tweaks but nothing more than tweaks.

I play thematic builds, but I build complex characters. For example, a Fire/reflexes scrapper who in story is a speedster with an outfit that channels friction heat into her attacks. Obviously, I often have to ignore animations to get this to flow, but it's my take on this same thing. The biggest impact for me is that this strongly influences what power pools I'm willing to take: Medicine on a Brute? Because their regenerative blood heals other people, too. A dominator without haste? Uh, no, she's a psion, not fast. Though, a lot of this is a willingness to be fast and loose with the details. Radiation leaks could have similar effects to the Force of Will power pool, right? I have an odd take on this, but it's resulted in a lot of fun toons and some unique interactions.

I'd prefer the set moving away from click heals to some degree, getting more from the actual regeneration abilities. I'm fine with it being a click-heavy set, but it can still be a click-heavy set with a better constant basis. Apart from that, putting -recharge resistance into a passive or toggle is likely a good idea. Not a lot, I want to respect that weakness in the set to some dregree, but some. Apart from that, a little more resistance (even if only against limited damage types!) and maybe absorption. Absorption would be a thing to try after some other tweaks, but it by all means fits the set. I'm not necessarily talking about changing IH to the sentinel IR, the details would take more refining than that, but I DO think it's something worth experimenting with. On the other hand, sometime down the line I'd like to see a dedicated defense set that uses the absorption mechanic strongly. Maybe something like an energy shield? I think the mechanic has potential and I'd like to see it used a little more.

Even if someone intends to do perma stuff eventually, it doesn't make it better while leveling. Ideally, a power set should be rewarding to play at any level. It will of course be absolutely absurd for people who IO slot, but some people either don't want to figure out how to IO slot or only start doing it when they get to 50. If perma-ing a power is an essential part of the powerset viability, that's not a good sign. My understanding is that part of the issue of animation times is that they weren't considered as part of balance by the original makers, not when the game was first being designed in any case. That was part of why Dual Pistols had issues in Live. Regen has it better than some, the cast times are pretty good (other than instant healing?) but it does still have an impact on how the set flows. I have had times where I was a little worried I wouldn't get all my clicks off before the enemies just splatted me. I suspect that this is a mix of engine limitation and that Regen isn't supposed to be based on click heals; it has a mix of Auto and Toggle powers that implies to me it's supposed to be a set with solid clicks, not one that relies on clicks. Obviously, if this IS true then there's problems with the set design.

Regen has good points, especially for a Solo player, and in low-end play it can be a lot of fun: I have a Savage/regen brute and the synergy is hilarious. The end management is great if you're still getting a feeling for the game, and the clicks are respectably powerful. However, Regen has an issue where if you get something that messes you up, you get messed up VERY badly. This is slightly similar to Invuln and SR, but far stronger: Invuln may have a weakness to Psychic damage, but Psychic damage is relatively rare and they're not usually high-damage attacks (with a few painful exceptions, I'm sure.) Reflexes is strange because it's entirely luck-based, but it has enough -def resistance that it really takes an enemy with stacked accuracy (or a lot of luck) that the averages mostly lie in your favor. Regen, however, has the weakness of 'too high of incoming DPS,' which is unique because there's no band of the game, no specific faction or level range, where it's more or less prevalent. Arachnos blood widow? Pain. Didn't see the one boss in a council spawn? Pain. Got too many control effects on you? Pain. Bad spawn luck and two bosses are standing back-to-back? That council lieutenant turned into a Warwolf? Patrol wandered into your fight? Regen is strange, and unique, in how it runs because you can either 100% take on a given enemy setup indefinitely, or you can't. If you can, you don't even think about your clicks and your green bar is full the entire fight. If you can't, you activate all your healing powers as fast as possible. I kinda like that, but I acknowledge that I like it because I have strange tastes, not because it's good. I don't see Regen working in high-end play: if I were to actually try to be a main tank for a team, I'd likely spend a lot of time on the floor.

In my experience, Regen could get -regen resistance and still be adequately flawed. I've taken field medic to improve my healing ability on my brute, and while my click heals are amazing I need them more than I need them on other sets. That is not when fighting enemies with -regen, that's just normally, and that's my point: Giving Regen resistance to -regen wouldn't make it an amazing set off the bat. It would still suffer from a lack of defense and resistance, and still makes target prioritizing important so enemies with massive damage output can be taken out before they trash you. Honestly Regen could likely benefit from more changes, but I think some baseline -regen resistance would be a good idea in endgame play to keep a single enemy from neutering a tanker or brute. Keep in mind that Regen doesn't give any resistance to -defense, -resistance, or in fact any debuff resistance at all. Willpower I think could stay as is, it has other options that are incredibly effective even without the regeneration, but given that Regen is a one-trick pony it's likely worth ensuring that it can do said trick reliably.

I've mostly seen this is in ranged mobs, leading me to believe it's a moment of 'wait, I have a gun, I should be trying to shoot this guy at a distance, not punch him in the face.' In any case I don't mind this, there are times where the guy moves into a different mob and it becomes awkward to finish him but they're few and at most call for a little thought to solve. . This is the annoying one. The worst thing is that when the flee cycle finishes, they're still 'in combat' with you as far as they're concerned. So they come back to get beat on again. If they ran off to join a different spawn group, that'd be one thing? But they always, 100% of the time, come back to try and fight you sooner or later. It's just stupid.

I'd like to see consistency on 'show objective' triggers in general. I have previously cleared a map, only found one of three glowies, and then had to sweep every single side-room and nook trying to find the spots, listening for the humming that I'm pretty sure was louder on live? I get that part of the appeal is exploration, but the point where exploration wears out its welcome is much sooner than the point where the radar turns on.

I'd like to request thrown knives and/or axes for the darts set. I think making the multi-throwing AoE and status while the single-throwing single-target (maybe with chain attacks) is a good idea. Maybe multi-throwing can have some kind of mark mechanic with attacks that consume marks for extra damage? There's a sorta-kinda mark set in beam rifle, but it doesn't consume the marks. Dunno, I kind of like mark mechanics and hope to see more of them in general.

...might be that I just use that one power a lot, since I solo a lot. Oops. Well, point stands. Not as strong, but it stands: some powers are reliant on Knockback, and if it was removed across the board they'd drop in usefulness and likely need to be re-done. And at that point, I think a toggle would be easier to implement. Heck, it wouldn't even make the KD to KB IO obsolete: you could still put that on abilities you just want to never knockback even if you're in knockback mode (AoE abilities in energy blast, maybe).

I think this would likely be the toughest solution to implement, but also maybe the best one as some powers really bank on KB to work. The example of Energy Manip stands; a number of Energy Manip melee attacks bank on KB as part of control, specifically knock BACK instead of just down. This makes the set difficult but rewarding to use well, and I'd like to see that maintained. A universal KB to KD change would damage it, but some kind of toggle might work.

It wouldn't work for every power: Energy manipulation has a lot of powers where the entire point is using knockback from the melee attacks to give you breathing room. However, I do agree that knockback is alarmingly common and often aggravating; even as someone who thinks people get too wound up over it I agree that there needs to be some kind of wide-angle solution considered. If not KB to KD, then maybe KB to KU? That still gives air time, moves the mobs a little but not a lot, and (most importantly) is still somewhat hilarious.

I've seen this across every character I've played except the Controller and the Dominator, and those are the exception only because I've stapled the enemy's feet to the floor. It's the worst with ghosts or other flying enemies, because they move FAST. I have no idea what triggers it, it's not always the last enemy in a group, it's not always an enemy that's mostly dead, it's not even a certain type of enemy (ranged enemies might try to get some distance, but while that's annoying it's not the 'flee' behavior we're looking at). I've seen it from both minions and lieutenants, and I suspect I'd see it from bosses too if I gave them a chance. So... no, I don't know what causes it. It's less notable on single-target characters, because I'm pretty sure it only happens if the enemy has been damaged some? But if there is a specific trigger, I don't know about it.