Solarverse

I do agree, it is far more logical to help him understand better and how to better create a team rather than validate. Validating is like giving a man a fish so he can eat for a day...educating them is like teaching a man to fish so that he can eat for life. Of course, you could also poison the fish and they will eat for life too, but...I don't suggest that, lol.

Me personally, I don't do radio missions unless I am just trying to unlock a contact. If solo, I do Story Arcs. If teaming, I do Task Forces. Radio missions are just....boring, they have no purpose other than to level. I can do that while also obtaining badges and accolades. I think maybe the only people who really do radio missions are the people who are in between door sitting AE missions, and since I am 100% against power leveling, I just don't fit in with that crowd. So when somebody advertises radio missions, I hold off until I see a Task Force instead....and even then, I don't mess with the ones that say, "speedy" Task Force as to me, if it's worth doing, its' worth doing all the way.

I did consider that, yet when I use my Mind Dom, it hits every time. Of course Mind uses Psionic Damage, which those bubbles provide zero defense to...so then there is that.

Strangely enough, I took an Ice Dom in to Posi 2 just now and I was perplexed as to what was going on that my Sleep, Flash Freeze, was not knocking out toggles. Their bubbles were not knocked down a single time. I had it 3 slotted (only level 20 atm) with 2 Acc 1 Recharge. Not a single one of them dropped their toggles. I am wondering if Flash Freeze might be bugged, or if their bubbles now prevent sleeps? Something worth testing out because the experience was lacking. It made me regret picking up sleep on my Ice Dom.

Me and a guildy was actually walking about this the other night and we were trying to figure out a way that people could keep their OP damage, but also make controllers and healers feel more useful. I mean, here is the issue... Healers are often feeling unhelpful because teams just don't get hurt often Controllers feel way underwhelmed because by the time they lock anything down, it is nuked and it's time to move on to the next mob. Debuffers honestly don't get much chance to debuff anything. They all die before the Debuffs really do anything outside of AV fights...and even then, I have watched AVs go down in literal seconds. Constantly playing a game of catch-up to the highest DPS'ers on the team can get tiring, lol. So the idea we came up with is simple. The more players on your team, the more hit points the mobs have. The mobs double in hit points (just a random number) for every player on the team, but also, the XP is adjusted so that players do not lose out on the xp per minute. How does this help? It takes more than a single rotation for a Blaster to wipe out mobs, Nukes will not insta kill mobs, contollers, healers, debuffers will actually feel needed in situations like this because mobs will be sticking around a lot longer before they go down. I know it's not a perfect idea, but it's a start. I have not put this in the suggestion forums yet because honestly, it's hard as hell to get anyone to agree to any changes what-so-ever in this game, I have to be mentally prepared before I make a suggestion these days for the /jrangers, lol.

We are getting older, my friend. 😉

I am fairly certain Gravity was missed on that. If memory serves, they were going to add Gravity to that at some later date? I could be wrong.

I think what he is saying, is that it would cause them to knock down instead of knock back. Basically, it serves the same purpose as the KB to KD IO. But, if you fail to use the AoE Immob, it would fling them all over the place. That's if my assumption is correct, I have not tested this so I am not 100% on this.

I kind of thought so too, but I didn't want to make a point out of it until I found out for 100% fact.

The thing is, I spent a LONG time trying to figure out what to pair with /Thorn and Fire was my eventual primary that I decided on. So I plan to play this particular character long term and right now he is only level 20 since I have only soloed with him so far by doing the story arcs. However, eventually I will be teaming with him, getting him all decked out and such and I honestly don;'t want to continue playing him if they are going to nerf one of the key functions that was a determining factors for choosing it in the first place, heh. So if it's going to get nerfed, I would kind of like to know about it so I can re-roll now before he gets any higher level, I'm sure you can get where I am coming from there...we have all suffered that demise at one time or another, lol.

What have the Devs said about it?

Sounds like to me it needs to be brought in line with Ice Slick and Earth Quake and then the damage needs to be brought WAY down. However, I don't see them taking the ability to put a KB to KD in it going well with players. Just sounds like a balancing issue to me. So should I not play Fire then? I mean, one of the reasons I am taking fire is for the KD of Bonfire, if they are just going to nerf it in a way that negates that KD, then I would be better off with Stone.

Ah okay, I see. Well then wouldn't it make more sense to lighten the damage and not so much the KB to KD IO? I understand it was not meant for KD, however, neither was any of the other powers that can use a KB to KD IO. P.S. I am not really all that experienced with Fire for Trollers/Doms, so some of this is kind of new to me.

Why would they nerf that and not Ice Slick or Earth Quake? Is it not the same thing? I don't want to get in to the "it's broken" discussion, because that is just way too much my opinion vs your opinion and I'm not looking to pick any fights, but as far as I understand, it works just like Ice Slick or Earth Quake, does it not? Is there something it is doing differently? Come to think of it, it doesn't really need a KB to KD IO because the Immob is a -KB, so even without the KB to KD IO it will still do the same thing. Unless I am missing something here?

Damage was not the deciding factor, I want that to be crystal clear, but it was the one edge it had over the other choices that tilted in its favor. As far as Fire not being the best control set, we'll have to agree to disagree on that. Stone is a strong competitor though, because the Defense Debuffs is just incredible and hard to overlook. But it still has that aching pain in my back Sleep ability. Plant...nah, For my personal taste, I cannot agree there. The cast times are longer than Fire, it has a +regen Spirit Tree that has nothing to do with controlling, it has an AoE Sleep that I am not a big fan of and it has a Tier 8 that is nothing more than a Pet Damage ability that is on a long recharge timer. IMO that set was a huge miss on missed opportunities. It has the typical single target immob, single target hold, AoE immob, a sleep, a confuse, AoE Hold and that's it. Pretty basic for a control set for my taste. Fire on the other hand, has a single target fast casting single target immob, an extremely fast casting single target hold, and extremely fast casting AoE immob, a -ToHit/-Perception, an AoE Stun, an AoE Hold, and an AoE continuous knock down when you add a KB to KD in it, plus...the set as a whole does more damage as an added bonus. For me personally, Fire is far superior to Plant. The only set better IMO is Stone, but again, it has Sleep in the set and for this character I wanted to avoid a set that had a sleep in it. Overall, I would say the order of best to worst is as follows, 1: Stone 2: Dark 3: Elec 4: Fire and in that order. Just my opinion though. I am nobody though, so take that with a grain of salt, lol.

You make a valid point here. However, when I have sets to chose from between Ice and Fire, I have to look at the set as a whole and decide which set has the better abilities or control. So let's take my specific example that brought me to make this post. I decided to create a /Thorn Dom. I was going through all of the primary sets to see which one had the best control. When I looked at Ice, Stone and Mind, I simply had to pass them up because they all shared the same disadvantage to the the other previously mentioned sets. Sleep. So that lead me to Fire, Elec, Plant and Dark as a primary choice. In the end, I ended up going with Fire because out of those choices, Fire not only had the most damage potential, but it also had the best control along with every single power in the set being powers that are not situational, but powers that can be used in any given circumstance. Fire has the best damage AND the best controls for any situation, so it seemed a no brainer for me on which one to chose. After giving it some thought, it made me wonder why Fire is the best over-all set? Stone comes close even though it has a Sleep power that is easily skipped, but it also has a TON of debuffs that come with those powers. But over all, I still felt Fire would best serve my interests in this situation. So having said that, it is clear for me personally, Sleeps hold sets back from a greater potential as they stand now and they are the sole reason I skipped over those sets on what to pair with /Thorn. Now that is just me though, I most certainly do not expect anyone else to agree with me or validate me.

Ah hell, that annoys the snot out of me, lol. If memory serves, that started after the patch that prevented Super Speeders from doing drive by attacks. So the mobs respond instantly to your attack now...ever since then, sleeps, damage or not, gives them a chance to act before they go under. If I am not mistaken that is.

For me personally, I find sleeps useful in very rare situations these days. I use sleeps even less than I use Dimension Shift. Dimension Shift has two good reasons to use it, A: If you over aggro and the extra aggro'ed mob is just too much for a team that is currently struggling with the first mob, or B: If your team is all grounded up in the center of a room with several mobs stacked on the team, you can use it to prevent anything outside the bubble popping you with ranged abilities and it allows the team to focus on the mobs that are inside of the bubble instead. Sleep on the other hand I can only find one use for on a team setting, and that is sleeping a mob from afar to prevent over-aggro. Meanwhile, you have Fire, Darkness and Electric over there, with every single ability in its arsenal being something useful that can be applied to every single mob you come across. So for me personally, what I usually end up doing, is when I play sets that have AoE Sleeps, is that I will skip those and replace them with the new Teleport ability that gathers mobs around you. I will run up to the Tank, hit the ability and follow it with a Stun/Root/AoE Hold or whatever strikes my fancy. Now, there are a couple of characters that I have the Sleep power on, but the only situation I tend to use them on is say for instance, Posi 2, at the AV fight when you get the spawn of Vhaz. I will sleep them so that we can continue to focus on the AV. However, before that fight, I don't click that button a single time unless we are on the verge of team wipe...which doesn't really happen all that often. So yes, it has its uses, but do those uses happen enough to justify me putting it in to my build? For me, not usually. Pretty rare actually. I just wish Sleeps had some after effect that will kick in after the sleep is broken, maybe perhaps a short lived disorient effect, or perhaps a short lived hold effect, or a short lived confuse effect...depending on which powerset it is applied to that is and what makes sense for that powerset.

True. It can get pretty complicated, this much is for sure, heh.

Agreed, not wanting to make the game easier at all. However, I would like there to be a reason for me to pick up...say...Flash Freeze. Like Greycat was saying, it's a point blank AoE, you jump in the middle of the crowd, hit your AoE sleep and then you are at the mercy of the gods. Considering that sleeps break with any damage at all, it makes the power pretty useless to me. I am willing to bet if we looked up the stats, it's one of the most skipped powers in the set. Make the game easier? No, in fact, I am sure there are people who read that and chuckled pretty hard at the notion. Anyone here who is familiar with me knows that I am a HUGE advocate of not only not letting this game get any easier, but also I am all about making the game more difficult to play. I have been very vocal on this ever since the game came back out and even on the forums before the game shut down, heh. If there was a topic for sleep mez before, I am sure that players wanted it to have MOAR DAMAGE or something or another. Players who post are often looking for ways to make themselves more of a god than they already are, I am simply curious how players feel about the set...as I made clear in my opening post. This is not a suggestion post or I would have put it in the suggestion forums. This is a post asking the players how they feel about the set and asking them if they use it. Somehow by asking that it has turned in to a suggestion thread though...but that's not on me...I don't think?

Funny, it was my Ice Dom that I was playing that got me thinking about this to begin with, heh.

Lol, at run to the bathroom. I think a disorient would be suit that scenario.

Absolutely not, I do not play Controllers or Doms for the damage, like you, I play them they way they were intended to play from the gate. I would just like to see some better utility with Sleep powers. I mean, the Elec version got some serious love in that it constantly refreshes the sleep. I would like to see the other versions get something else that makes them a good back-up if the sleep gets broken by other players. I don't want them all to be like Elec though, I would like to see each one get something unique to the set they are in...if possible.

I couldn't agree more. Elec's version of sleep has proven itself time and again IMO.

My personal opinion, they are absolutely a complete waste of a mechanic in today's City of Heroes. Single Target Sleeps I still find useful because most boss ranked NPCs have zero resistance/defense to it, so single target sleeps are great at dropping boss toggles, like Dispersion Bubble for instance. However, AoE sleeps in today's game is something that I personally find out dated and I skip them on every Controller or Dominator that I build. Why? Simple answer: With all the AoE abilities that every class has, it really makes AoE sleeps pointless and obsolete. Even when soloing, I still find them something unworthy of my build. Do any of you take AoE sleeps in your build? If so, why? What advantage does it serve in your build and how does it help you and/or your team? For the rest of you; do you think AoE Sleep abilities have finally reached the end of their usefulness? What would you put in their place if they were to change? Could something be done to the Sleep mechanic to improve them and make them in to something that would fit today's game? My opinion has been made, I would like to get a rough idea on how you all feel. Asking in game, I usually find a bunch of players who agree with me, so the true test is asking in the forums where I am seldomly agreed with, heh. Based on the feedback I get here, this will give me a good idea as to whether or not pursuing a change would even be worth the time and effort.