Rathulfr

I just confirmed this with a new level 1 char on Torchbearer. They wiped the floor with me. (edit: I captured video, but I can't share it, so... 😞)

"Welcome to The Internet™." -- Al Gore, 1993.

I disagree that the "fundamentals" of the game have changed in their essential nature. To be sure, there have been significant changes to mechanics (aggro cap, ED, IOs, Incarnates, etc.), but the fundamental character of the game and the original power sets are still there. Energy Blasters are still Energy Blasters, Storm Defenders are still Storm Defenders. They may not be able 6-slot the same enhancements any more, but their essence is still there. If KB were suddenly switched to KD automatically, would Energy Blasters and Storm Defenders still be the same, though? Mechanically, yes: KD Blasters/Defenders would probably play just as well (or better, as asserted by @Galaxy Brain). But I'm arguing that something of their non-mechanical essence -- their Platonic "Form" -- would be irrevocably diminished. I fully support any solution that allows us to preserve the original essence while improving mechanics, as so many of the other changes from the original design have done (aggro cap, ED, IOs, Incarnates, etc.).

"Now"? 😉

Jump Kick

For the record: Nerf Hasten. That is all. 😎

Welcome to the pre-freakout thread for the hypothetical "nerf Hasten" thread that hasn't been posted (yet, this week). 😄

Hey, I didn't say it was logical: I just said I could understand how some people might feel. I don't agree with it: I just understand it as a possible phenomena.

I'm also pro side, for the same reasons listed above. But I can understand how some people might like the sense of accomplishment from being "finished", and might feel upset by that accomplishment being undone. Is there a badge for earning all of the badges? I'm thinking of the Loremaster achievement in WoW, which once earned, cannot be rescinded, even though every new expansion pushed the goal posts for that achievement further out for those who hadn't yet achieved it.

My argument about original intent was not against changing/improving KB. It was against the idea that KB should changed arbitrarily and universally as posted by the OP, or against the notion that it "should" be opt-in rather than opt out. As I indicated in most of replies, I support discussion/debate about changing/improving KB, and your linked post from Feb. 1 is one of the better ones I've seen proposed*. But that's markedly different than simply changing KB to KD across the board by default, as they've done at Sanctuary. (edit) *: You'll notice my support was one of the first few replies in that thread.

Yes, new things have been added, but the old things have also been preserved. As was stated earlier, the devs did start to correct their decisions about KB, using KD in new power sets. But they were also careful not to go back disrupt established power sets (like Energy or Storm) because doing so would fundamentally alter a significant aspect of those sets. I'm all for adding new options to address the problems with KB. I'm against any options that would retcon established sets (like Energy and Storm and others). Those legacy sets need to be preserved as part of the original game. If those who play those sets want to take advantage of any new KB-to-KD/KU options, then great, more power to them. But don't expect those who don't want to do so to accept it without the same option to decline.

The change to TFs doesn't fundamentally player character concepts, which is at the core of why people play the game. People don't come to CoH to play TFs: they come to create and play the super-hero alter egos in their imaginations. Changing KB to KD arbitrarily could fundamentally alter some of these player character concepts, which would be construed as a serious violation of personal identity. And in some cases, that would drive some players away. Surely there's a way to change the game for the better that accommodates those players who want KB, as well as those who don't? I simply disagree that changing it by default for legacy ATs/power sets to which it is integral -- as Sanctuary has done, as described by the OP -- is the right way to do it. Let's come up with a different solution that works for everyone.

Normally, I would agree with you, except in this case. Most people came "home" to the game they loved that was created 15 years ago. I argue that they want the essence of that original game preserved, while building on that for an improved future. Furthermore, they probably don't want that essence altered too much to become something that's significantly different than the original. If HC significantly altered the game in fundamental ways, such as defaulting to KD instead of KB, then CoH would no longer be "CoH", as it's fondly remembered. It would become "CoH 1.5" or "CoH 2.0", which is an entirely different proposition. I'm not asking that we carve into stone the devs' original intent, and never move the game forward. I'm just saying that we need to balance the past against the future, to preserve the original spirit of the game for those who come to play for nostalgia, in addition to adding new features that appeal to both old players and new ones.

YES, PLEASE!

This. The level 27 respec has become a ritual on all my new alts. That's when I can equip the level 30 common IOs and a few of the select IO sets that have that as the minimum level. I keep using level 30 common IOs until I get to 50 and am ready for the final build respec.

I respectfully disagree. What the original dev team intended and delivered is why I played this game in the first place, and why I came home to it when it was resurrected. If CoH in 2020+ becomes significantly different from CoH in 2004-2012, then it loses its appeal to me, and I'd probably stop playing it. Yes, the devs did reconsider KB as the game progressed, but they never retroactively changed their original design. This means that the devs respected their original design decisions, and sought to preserve them, even while at the same time changing their trajectory. In other words, they saw value in the original KB mechanics and sought to preserve them, even while they created new sets with KD/KU as an alternative. One person's "pain in the ass" is another person's "pleasure in the face" (to flip the metaphor). Please don't remove/fix that, no matter how "easy" it might seem. The fact that we're having this debate (again!) shows how divisive this issue is, and that there is no collective consensus that it should be changed, universally, as done by Sanctuary. We can discuss other options that HC might consider, but a universal switch from KB to KD across the board is a bad move. Going back to the OP: this one change by Sanctuary means that I won't be playing there. I do like to visit the other servers from time to time, and I've actually had fun on a few of them. But ultimately, I still prefer HC over the others, because they seek to thread the needle of maintaining the original design of the game while adding innovative QoL improvements. Changing KB to KD universally crosses a boundary line that violates the original design, upsetting the careful balance, IMO.

I feel the same way about Hover on my non-melee characters.

I agree with everything except for cutting the price to craft level 50 IOs. That was meant to be an Inf sink, and we need Inf sinks to counter inflation.

Yes, actually it does. What is doesn't mean is that it's the way it always must be, going forward. We can have a discussion about what it should be in the future. But there's no arguing about what it was in the past. The devs designed it that way originally, they maintained it that way for most of the game's active history, so that it strongly implies that's the way it always should have been, up to the point where they decided to change it. And when they did change it, they changed it in a way that reinforced the notion that KB "on" is the "default", and that turning it off was optional. I'm all for debating about its future disposition. But don't try to re-write history, because that won't fly, and doesn't support any arguments otherwise.

Wrong. The game was designed with KB on damage powers, by default. This is the way they were meant to be played from the very beginning, and for most of the game's active history. It was only towards the end that they added in a single, unique, enhancement set (Overwhelming Force) that could alter that on one power per build. That means they intended it to be opt-out for only one (1) power per build. It wasn't until the non-unique proc in Sudden Acceleration was added that it became possible for players to opt-out of KB, and that only at the expense of a slot per power. Players have to consider it a trade-off, sometimes even risking 6th slot set bonus effects. The decision to convert KB to KD is meant to be a measured one, not something that was ever expected to be the "default".

Since nobody beat me to it. /jranger

No: that just defeats the purpose of the fix in the first place. That would just shift the grinding of double Inf from AE to everywhere else. The problem wasn't that AE farms generated too much Inf: the problem is there was too much Inf being generated in the first place. It doesn't matter where that Inf comes from: the spigot needed to be turned down at that particular source to reduce the rate of inflation everywhere else. The answer to bailing out a sinking ship is to plug the leak, not add even more leaks in different places. *eyeroll*

Yeah, my comments were before I re-read the other notes about SOs dropping pretty much everywhere now, in addition to DFB, which is absolutely cool with me. I think the sooner we get off the TO train to Nowheresville, the better. I think I can live with a mix of SOs and DOs for the lower levels.

Because the game was designed with knockback as an integral component. Lots of powers have it, across multiple sets and ATs. City of Heroes wouldn't be the same game without it: it would be a fundamentally different game. This not only breaks the cottage rule, it razes a substantial neighborhood to replace it with condos. Yes, KB is a pain in the ass sometimes: it's supposed to be. Deal with it, just like we deal with AoE immobilizes and mass confusion and dimension shift. It's part of the game. If you don't like it, play a different game, or slot KB-to-KD enhancements. Those are optional, and don't force the players to change the default essence of the original game. Should there be more options for converting KB to KD (or KU)? Sure, why not? But not at the expense of forcing every player into that mold or altering a fundamental component of the original game.