Frosticus

an absolute game changer for storm and the playability of the set. The ease of dropping things like freezing rain around a corner in the blink of an eye is very beneficial. Consider that you dont even have to be able to see where you are putting it now, just get a target, scoot to a blind spot and execute the button.

6? nah. 4-5 slots by lvl 21 depending on how much acc you slot. 1-2 acc, 3 procs you can get as many damage procs into poison trap as you are able to right away. It doesn't need purples.

If personal survivability is a major concern then I'd probably go troller. Though the defender numbers are quite tempting. It's why I originally went plant/poison. Plant is a massive boost to survivability thru great control and even a solid regen power to help sustain. It also bunches the spawns via seeds to make the splash debuffs much more effective. I strongly recommend the combo to anyone interested in delving into poison. If you are less concerned about personal protection. Maybe you run with a solid group or you are ok heavily investing in IOs and build restrictions then I have no doubt a poison defender will be awesome. Remember you can get envenom and poison trap out in about the same time as a storm gets down freezing rain. That's 25-65% -res (before procs) and a damage proc nuke vs 35% -res.

hello earth assualt. meet forcefeedback proc. I mean you always could do that but faster cast times and longer recharges aplenty will translate to huge gains for that set via that proc. I'm excited.

Yes, but with a caveat. I dont *need* to use it and as such i dont use it all that much. I fire it into the intial convergence point while I get the kill zone set up and to get some quick kills for creepers to spawn from. Once creepers are at work and my tree is down I'm very stable. I'll use it more when my melee hybrid drops as I can get a bit unstable then. and I use it on the last couple roving spawns that I can never seem to pull over to my death zone just to more rapidly clear them. I dunno, I had no intention of it being a decent farmer and it definitely cant hang with the big boys but it keeps me busy between TFs and with enough inf to go out on the town 🙂

In short, no. I explained why as I understand how the -res procs work, but that understanding is admittedly from 10 ish yrs ago 🙂 I'll share an interesting thing about poison trap though. It can "critical" and hit the same target twice with the same proc. Initially I thought it was the hold detonation combining with the 2% hold gas chance but I've seen my aoe damage procs double hit. ie armageddon fire damage. I still think that's what it is but it seems to roll all the procs. So the critical while rare is not unseen. kinda neat.

no you are right they are all applied at the same time, or in such a narrow window it doesnt matter. The log will say as much. I think we are saying the same thing there. What I'm additionally saying is that the -res effect takes a bit longer to actually apply due to the proc causing the target to then cast the power on itself. If the power analyzer is any indication it can take considerable time after the proc, like a full second to actually lower the resistance of the target. But I'm seriously playing on a potato right now so ymmv.

It would matter in the sense he means. Basically if the -res resolved first then the subsequent damage procs would benefit. I'm fairly confident they do not however because of the way the -res procs work to prevent multi-source stacking. the -res procs are actually pretty slow to apply if watching via power analyzer is any indication.

Me too! as this is ultimately the only important goal. I know you arent implying this as you state your fondness of procs, but my frame of mind is that the PPM system is here to stay. Get on board or get out of the way Haha. I'm going to go out on a limb and say poison IS amazing. It is not amazing at all things, but if you can overcome its deficiencies it is the best at what it excels at. Team clear speeds (not counting kinetics). It stands out above storm and TA in this regard. Pretty far above honestly.

A fun little proc for poison trap is the lockdown +2. It procs at a high rate and lets you aoe hold some of the bosses in the group for a short duration. It may be worth considering for a defender and some trollers.

I'll try it out. I like knowing things. I was just pondering if it would let me pull more mobs into my death zone as you can only aggro so many on the map.

Honestly I have never used the sleep power. I just have it for the set bonuses. I tend to play very aggressively and there is so much dot damage going off all over the place that the sleep doesnt do much for me. So I cant tell you about placate. I can try and it out though and see what happens. Incarnates are nerve alpha so I can 4-6 slot procs without giving up any meaningful enhancement value. Melee hybrid cause that's where I'm usually playing and it provides significant bonuses. Ageless because global rech is ftw with procs and I've sacrificed so many set bonuses to maximize procs that I need it for my long cool down powers. also endurance.

Every day you hear people saying how badly poison performs. Heck I'm even guilty of it in the past. It definitely has a lot of skippable powers. I'd only take 3-4 powers from it if I could (defender could), but those 3 powers are very impressive in what they do. It's funny because people praise storm based on 4 powers (steamy, freezing, LS, nado). They praise the power of cold with only 4 powers (fog, benumb, sleet, HL). The reality is, procs take poison from being meh, to one of the strongest sets available. The term proc monster gets thrown around a lot, this set is the real deal. Anyway: Envenom: 30% -res/def on target, 15% -res/def 8ft aoe. This sounds like a reasonably decent power. It procs at 67% on 3 procs, with a pretty fast cast time. That makes it a great power. Poison Trap: this is a goddam nuke with aoe hold. It actually recharges fast enough to use every spawn (60 sec base) even on fast teams. If you like procs and you want to build a "proc monster" this is the best proc power in the game bar none. Venomous Gas: Probably the best power in the game that requires no slotting. 15ft aoe autohit -res/def/dam/tohit. All with respectable values, with the -res being the star. *Weaken: I don't use weaken, because it doesn't make me clear things faster, but it is actually a great power. *Paralytic: fires off 4 procs regularly. As good as any power like this You need to dedicate !!8!! additional enhancement slots to become an offensive powerhouse. If you care about return on investment, I can't think of a better combo. I look at poison as an offensive set, so I generally compare it to the king of offence - storm I've done storm. I posted about my demon/storm in the pylon thread. It is unreal. Insane even. I'm telling you that poison brings as much or more to team efficiency than storm. It solo's spawns as fast or faster thanks to poison trap nuke and has enough mitigation between venomous gas and poison trap to tackle a lot of content. It however, does not bring as much single target damage as a storm potentially can. But, it is considerably safer than storm vs an AV* *Most people don't understand how -dam debuff works. Between weaken and venomous you apply 30% -dam. This is then multiplied by the -res. Envenom and Gas apply -48.75. Envenom procs achilies and poison trap procs fury of glad at a very high rate. So anywhere from -48.75 to -88.75 resistance debuff. Which turns the 30% -dam up to 44.6%-56.6%. Weaken also debuffs a lot of behind the scenes mechanics overall making most enemies much more manageable. This is a pretty noticeable impact against +2 AV's. It starts to taper off higher than that. How I roll plant/poison/stone, which beyond being extremely fun and packed full of synergy, is maybe the most thematic character I've ever made (really nice for me as I'm typically a power gamer). Plant was originally designed as a villain set. If you read the power descriptions it isn't "nice" and "fluffy". Carrion creepers literally feeds off of slain foes. So poison fits the mould of plant super well to me at least. Plant is ridiculous. You don't even need a secondary to make a good plant character, so a lot what this build achieves is either due to plant and the potent synergies between plant and poison. So ymmv. Stone epic takes procs and runs with them as well or better than any epic set. Performance: So how bout some performance metrics? I don't have videos for you, but I'll post you my build so if you too are a reasonably skilled player you can expect great results. Farm: I clear the comic con s/l space map at +4 w/ bosses in less than 6 mins consistently. The build isn't completed yet. I think it will get down in the 5.5 avg range with a judgement power and lore used over time. I haven't died on it in the last 20 or so clears. So the build is pretty stable. It is a snooze fest at +3, but requires active playing at +4. I might make an insp combining macro cause all i do it just use the drops as they come now. Pylons: I take down pylons without insp/temps/etc (scrapper rules) in 2:50-3:30 consistently (310-350 dps due to proc variance). The build has no pets cause outside of MM's and a few unique troller pets (PA and haunt) I personally think pets are a waste. Surviving the pylon is a non issue for the build. Build is intended for 45+ content. Perma hasten, capped hp when you fight, proc damage thru the roof. Use your second build slot for low level play.

Poison takes a bit to get it clicking and it definitely isn't for everyone. It could use some tweaks as the small aoe's can be a challenge to use effectively. However, it is one of the strongest sets available for a fast moving team. Always on aoe 25% -res, huge -res on a boss or two, check out my poison trap testing for aoe damage. It isn't that great at keeping the user alive, but in general IO's add a lot more survivability to soft builds than they add offense to tough builds. Surviving just isn't an issue in most teams.

Soulbound proc? yes absolutely great choice. I don't really use the st confuse late game. Great power while leveling though. Fearsome stare is usually enough to get into the mix. I might be mistaken, but I think the contagious proc alerts enemies, so up to you if the aoe factor would be worthwhile vs sneaky single confusing. ya I use a second build slot for examplaring on my main toons. Other than the inconvenience of initially slotting the second build it allows the best of both worlds with minimal compromise in build power. be careful with spiritual, it can mess with your proc rates. Sometimes worth it, sometimes not.

Back on live it was determined that creepers travels below the surface. But an invisible pet along the ground makes sense too. I don't think it is attached to you, but does follow. You can clearly see this behaviour if you leave a couple enemies alive and then move on to the next spawn. Creepers will take way longer to join you as it stays fighting the remainders until it either kills them or disengages (like a pet would).

The procs attached to the aoe power *seem* to trigger the most in creepers. -so aoe procs, immob, ato dam. annihilation triggered 47 times over the life. Same x8 scenario as before. -The slow proc barely triggers at all. 18 times. -Kb dam proc is negligible Best proc scenario for creepers vs groups: expect to see 40+ of each proc occur over the life. posi, javelin, annihlation, ATO dam, trap. Obviously these numbers could vary significantly with each run. I'll run a few more times and see if anything interesting happens, but dam it takes a long time to parse the logs for creepers. Is there a faster way?

Couple notes: - extra slots in health, use them as you see fit - some people like to use their st hold as a hold, others as an attack. Up to you really. Between grasp, paralytic, poison trap, and seismic you can stack a lot of hold. - The aoe immob is of questionable value to a pbaoe centric build. - I don't love energy font, but the stun will stack with heart of darkness. - should be perma hasten/haunt once the 20% global rech of ageless and the force feedback procs kick in. - cycle melee alpha and rune of protection for high uptime mez protection + big survivability boost - doesn't exemp below lvl 45 well at all haha. - poison trap and fissure are the main two powers so that's why nerve over intuition. If you are willing to take a small hit to them, then intuition is a strong option, but you'll need to rework s/l def. - I can't be bothered trying to keep the dog alive and it usually doesn't keep up with me/team when it gets rolling. http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/download.php?uc=1474&c=695&a=1390&f=HEX&dc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

On a x8 farm moving at moderate pace: creepers proc'd Sup Will psi dam 49 times over the life of creepers (130 sec?) poison trap proc'd Sup Will psi dam 67 times over a 2 min period casting when PT was up. More analysis would be beneficial. But I like that PT goes when I want it to whereas creepers just work on their own volition.

I'm not opposed to sharing a build. I don't really have one for my dark/poison as I'm still levelling it. I'll post what I'm striving for though. It is subject to change if it starts working out differently than I'm expecting in the end game, but so far it plays similar to my plant/poison. I take the dog while levelling. I just mean on a 50+ build the pet doesn't really fit my playstyle anymore.

It doesn't proc particularly well. 10 sec interval, ~15% chance per standard proc. It does stack with the aoe hold of poison trap quite well though. Such long recharge that I tend to steer clear of aoe holds, even if the pulsing ones are better than one shot ones for control.

Well I'm still honestly fine tuning both. But here's what I can say with decent confidence: -Poison trap procs on detonation like/similar to an aoe click. And then has the 10 sec activation period after that. Which is pretty sweet. The initial detonation has an aoe for the hold of 25ft and an aoe of 15ft for the damage. After that both damage and hold are 15ft. I've been rolling with 3 purple damage procs, 2 regular and 1 -res proc. Internal recharge at 48 sec and about 18 sec with global and FF proc. It is fantastic. I love the procs. -The explosive strike only procs when the tall vines use their melee attack. It isn't a bad return when several of them are out. I've had it in there a long time. The ATO proc rolls when it does the aoe immob. When it gets going it is...impressive and creepers are potentially always active. I'll post a pic of the combat log tonight if I log in. The number of times the ATO could proc in a minute vs full spawns is huge in either power. I'll try to run a farm at some point and count the combat log for both scenarios.

Creepers slotting: I adjusted my slotting. I didn't think I'd ever pull the ATO proc out of poison trap, but I think I will stick with it for awhile. procs: posi, javelin, annihilation, trap, superior troller ATO psi dam, ragnarok dam/rech +5 I have the nerve to use nerve alpha, so ymmv.

yes. it's why the heal proc is lame in it too.

contagious confusion proc in seeds will confuse most anything. Venomous gas and envenom almost make confused mobs too effective. Minions sometimes vaporize for zero xp ha. It is safe to drop trap. You wanna be in the middle to maximize venomous gas anyway. try melee hybrid.