Brutal Justice

Also not true. The market is lower than their seeded price because that is the actual supply and demand market. Until recently none of that seeded supply was probably even touched. They set a cap on the market. They didn’t set the market value.

Yes because said item, lotg, would still be more valuable than serendipity. Converters would buy serendipity for cheap and convert to lotg the same as they do now. Driving the floor up on serendipity and driving down the ceiling on lotg. Its the artificial bids on lotg that drive the ceiling up on lotg and do nothing for the floor on serendipity

You’re also allowed to be wrong. Flippers inflate prices. Converters normalize prices by raising the floor and lowering the ceiling.

My wife buys Rae Dunn junk at home goods. It’s $12 for a bird house. Rae Dunn only supplies a specific amount of supply at one time. Not limited edition. Just limited supply at once. Another woman gets to the store early on shipment days and buys all of the bird houses at $12. She relists those same bird houses at the local co-op shop for $20. If my wife wants a Rae Dunn bird house she either has to be a crazy person and show up everyday at stocking time or she has to pay the $20 price the flipper has set. This is a perfect real world example of what you’re doing. The woman buying all of the bird houses is just greedy. The greedy woman has to pay a price to list the items at the co-op just like wentworth’s. Money is coming out of the economy. Is she doing the economy a favor? No, she is being greedy and simply making money of off other people. She is neither supplying supplies nor providing a service *if you don’t know about Rae Dunn, consider yourself fortunate.

Untrue. If I bid x1 and you bid x100 I have a 1 percent chance of getting the item over you. Add more people bidding the same price and I have a lower chance. It takes 100 people to offset your greed. If 5 of those people decide to bid higher to either out bid you or pay the new price you’re setting then others will follow. Now my 1 bid is no longer at market value and goes unfilled... just like all my yellow salvage bids of 1k. 1 person’s greed has had the same affect as adding 100 new buyers to the list. It has artificially inflated the market price because the 100 new buyers are, in fact, artificial. If there were an actual 100 new buyers then that would be actual market value. One is artificial one is actual.

I have been trying to make the distinction between a flipper and a person who converts. I don’t know how to be any clearer. I don’t see an issue with a person who buys a cheap IO, converts it into a valuable IO, and sells the new valuable IO at the going rate for that valuable IO. If you're flipping like @Yomo Kimyata has admitted to then you’re a cancer. If you buy a valuable IO and realist the same IO for 4x the price you paid you’re clearly driving the price up on that IO. Just like the yellow salvage... 1 =1 1x4=4 that seems about as clear as it can be... to to buy more than you need is greed. There is no toilet paper to buy right now because somebody bought 47 packs for themselves because they are afraid of the corona virus. Greed. You ever try to buy a limited edition item in the real world but they were sold out before you could buy one? Then you go on eBay and realize individuals bought way more than they need to relist at 4x the price of the original. Did you think that person did the economy a favor? They are greedy and that is it.

Uh no. I said flippers are a cancer.

You’re making the gross assumption that I’m not intelligent enough to make the market work for me...

Buying low, selling high isn’t a matter of intelligence. It’s a matter of greed. You did nothing but take from your fellow man. Farming and providing supply is a service to your fellow man.

That’s converting, not flipping. Flooding the market would imply you are putting more of that IO into the market than existed before. Flipping is just flooding bids and reposting what already existed at a higher price. Neither of these provide supply. One of these is a net wash on IO prices. One of these is inflating prices

Lol. You’re inflating the going rate by flooding the market with low bids. If your 100 bids were not in there do you really think the price would go up? That’s 100 other people who could buy that IO at 1 mill. I have a 1 percent chance of getting that IO over you at the same price with my 1 bid. If you put in 100 bids to up your chances and resold what you didn’t need for the price you paid, then you wouldn’t be driving the prices up.

Converters equalize. Buy low sell high flippers do not

I would say converters have very little affect on the market. Actual buy low sell high flippers do drive up prices. That is what this whole thread is about. Somebody has 30k bids in for yellow salvage and have driven the price up from 1k to 15k

The fair market value wouldn’t be so high if you weren’t quadrupling the prices by putting in bids for something you don’t even need. If I need it I put in a bid for x1. You put in multiple x10 bids to out bid my x1. Now I can’t get it at that price because of all of your greedy bids. You drive up prices.

I agree but it’s still the farmer providing the supply. A converter is providing more or less a net wash in the market. Driving down brute ATIOs while driving up controller ATIOs. Flippers are a straight cancer.

Neither has a flipper.

That would be farmers providing the supply. Flippers just drive prices up

The Eden trial

Didn’t the X-men slowly kill of almost all of their major villains a while back? That was pretty much the beginning of the end. Bringing them all back is a reboot for another generation. The 90s X-men will live on eternally. I will deny reality and substitute my own.

Out of curiosity I took my stj/regen brute into the s/l comic con map to see how it performed. He has 55% s/l res and 20% s/l def. the most expensive IOs he has are a set of panacea and the brute ATIOs. He also has global procs slotted but those are fairly easy to gather with converters. No purples. T3 spiritual alpha. Set at +2x8 I had no issues at all. With dull pain active my basic regen lvl was enough to sustain me until the next click of dull pain. At +4x8 I had to do a little more work cycling my regen powers. One small orange and I was rock solid. I made sure to try to stay at aggro cap the whole time and generally only needed the orange once I had a large number of bosses pounding on me. I am not a farmer and my build is far from a farm build so my kill speed was atrocious. I wouldn’t set it to +4 simply because it was way too grindy for this build. If the same build was on a tank I would guess it would be equivalent to my brute popping the small orange. Regen is perfectly capable if you’re not offended by having to actually contribute to your survival. The larger base hp of a tank would help immensely with insta death from an alpha or really big hit. Already a brute takes it better than a scrapper who takes it better than a stalker. My stalker is the one most susceptible to a spike death. My build cost estimate: 7.5 mill x 12 for ATIOs = 90 mill 7.2 mill x 6 for panacea = 43 mill maybe another 100 mill to cover crafting and converting and 12 catalysts and my other IOs. 233 million total cost.

I take full responsibility and do not wish for this thread to devolve into a similar state of another thread that shall not be named.

You linked me a spreadsheet showing 500% recharge and that's telling me about the performance of dark melee? Lower that recharge to 100% and tell me where dark melee ends up. The spreadsheet also focuses entirely on damage. Did you know Siphon life is in that attack rotation for dark melee that places it in 11th place? That's healing and -to-hit that also comes from just using your best attacks. Are we to discount that for more damage? Your spreadsheet is fun, but not practical for ascertaining balance. People who play dark melee a lot know the role that it fills. People who just want more damage don't play dark melee.

I agree but increasing damage all over the board is not healthy for the game. If a set has great utility it shouldn’t sport equal damage to less utility sets. The reason damage is being increased acrossed the board, to try to help sets, is because it’s already completely out of control. At this point, adding utility does nothing for sets because damage is already overwhelming and utility is more or less pointless. There are sets that are really suffering in this environment and still, increasing damage is the focus. Increasing damage pushes those sets farther into the grave. Oil slick arrow is awesome, except when mobs are dead before you can even light it. Incremental increases is how avalanches happen. Eventually it hits a threshold and nothing can be done but be overwhelmed. We are stuck in an avalanche of damage, and utility, crowd control, aggro management, anything other than damage is just debris along for the ride.

Both are big issues overall because they both exist in the same set. However, the set was a beloved set before the changes to energy transfer. I am sure it had even worse aoe before the energy transfer changes and people still loved it. They loved it because it was good at what it did. It filled its role as a single target hunter. It had flavor. Some people like tea, others like lemonade, some want both at the same time. Just because you like an Arnold Palmer doesn’t mean it’s a good idea to mix all of the tea and lemonade.

Uh... just because you use different words doesn’t make the outcome any different. Pro choice is still pro abortion. Changing the word only makes it more palatable and therefore more acceptable to the masses. Literally pulling the wool over their eyes. Incremental increases that lead to incremental increases that lead to incremental increases is bad.