Brutal Justice

I was wondering if you ever figured this out? What sort of attack chain were you using? Did you use the pets?

I would love to see a dps comparison between a bane and a stalker. The stalker crits more but does the bane catch up with its -res and the pets? How far behind does the bane lag? Should banes see a bit of a buff? I don’t personally have time to do the comparison but if somebody who is good at that could knock out a simple comparison just to get an idea, I would be very interested.

I feel the performance issues really do stem from the lack of damage from power siphon and it’s animation length. If it was given follow up lvl of damage or the animation was shortened it would help. Personally I think it should receive both, damage and animation shortened. I have it on my tank and I find myself rarely even using it as it seems to really only work with the three quick attacks. Burst takes too long to animate to keep stacks up very well and repulsing torrent doesn’t even provide stacks. I am often in aoe mode to hold aggro so using power siphon is generally pointless. It is an issue when your “build up” causes you a dps loss.

I am only lvl 42 on the huntsman so far but I have decided to go with bile and without arctic breath. I am satisfied with the aoe damage from bile but it interrupts the flow of the toon so much that I am not even going to try out arctic breath. It’s possible that once I have a full IO build and more recharge that I might drop bile as well. The flow and smoothness of using just the rifle feels so good. I’ll hold off on the full vomit build until the inevitable crab. I have been focusing on the huntsman and the bane has been sitting dormant at lvl 26. However, I have cloaking device on the huntsman so I tested with the pets if they would pull me out of hidden. They can attack and take aggro while I maintain my hidden status so I don’t see an issue with having the pets on the bane. They also seem to lag far enough behind that I will still be able to close into melee and take the alpha before they arrive at the group. They really will arrive like reinforcements after the battle has begun.

I am currently leveling a huntsman and a bane and I have a couple questions. I am using info as a base from several of the builds on here provided for huntsman and am pretty happy with the build so far. I don’t see many using bile spray and arctic breath. I was hoping to use VG-HB-AB-bile as an opening aoe barrage then switch to single target. I haven’t decided on the attack order, just those 4. I mostly team so I care more about aoe burst than aoe dps sustain. Is there something better than this combo for an aoe opening? I am enjoying the bane as well but I have more questions about them since there seems to be less information on them than any other build. Is opening with a crit from shatter ideal since you only get a 1/2 crit? Or is it better to just open with VG? I also saw a statement that the pets constantly pull you out of hidden. Is this because they draw aggro to you and that aggro breaks your hide, or because if they attack it drops your hidden status simply by relation? The hidden status doesn’t seem to be much of a game changer with 1\2 damage crits. What is the biggest reason for skipping them on a bane? They still add single target damage and even though they are unfocused they still add aoe damage to your minimal aoe capabilities.

The EP chain my have better consistency but man, I don’t take energy melee to rabbit punch something to death. I’ll stick with the higher risk v reward meaty chunks chain.

Run some of those RWZ missions where you rescue Faultline. He actually changes into granite and can jump. His jumping IS limited but he can jump none the less.

I enjoy ice armor more for its character than its performance. I play all my toons on generic lvl 25 and 30 IOs, aside from a few global procs picked up at random lvls, until lvl 47 or 50. I think all of the armor sets are doing well but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t have some issues. I have an IOd ice/km tank, lvl 50 spines/ice scrapper still on basic IOs, and a lvl 30 dB/ice stalker. Based on an SO build, for tanks, I would probably place it somewhere in the bottom 3 or 4 for durability. Probably higher for scrappers and stalkers due to icy bastion. No experience with sentinels. For a primarily defense only set, with 3 holes, the base defense feels a bit too low. This combined with low DDR causes rather quick defensive failure. Chilling embrace helps in long fights against lieutenants and minions... which really doesn’t happen these days. It is limited in value like this because -recharge functions a lot like -end, it really has little effect until after the mob has gone through its attack cycle. AVs heavily resist the debuffs and with a solo AV you probably need to shut this toggle off for endurance reasons. Ice armor is extremely endurance heavy. With 5 endurance heavy toggles you can not function without energy absorption. Also, with lowish base defense you get sapped fairly easily. Adjustments I would propose: More DDR, around 60-70% And slightly higher base defense. With low numbers in these two you actually get less mileage than you could out of energy absorption because you take -def hits before you can EA in the mob. Higher DDR makes EA better. Give chilling embrace a small refreshing absorb shield like the blaster version. This would allow time for the -recharge to take effect and add some value in an AV fight. And come on, ice was absorbing before absorption was even a thing! Give Hibernate an instant +res aspect to prevent face planting from attacks that have been made but are yet to land. I have died lots of times IN hibernate from this very thing. Even with nothing changed, I still think the set is solid and will continue to enjoy it. I couldn’t play it with the old graphics but I quite like the min fx settings.

Indeed! I did however provide a long winded example of the same thing happening in a different mission. Do you know how we recovered from that situation? Just like @nihilii mentioned. People were not waiting around to Rez. They were rezing continuously, over and over again. Even as others were still alive people were rezing and dying, stretching the ambushes out. If even one or two people were on their feet we still had a chance because it gave enough breathing room to get maybe one more up. All of the debt we acquired was cleared within minutes. It really had no long term effect on anybody.

Yes I am. It’s already been mentioned but if you wipe in the reactor room of a respec trial you lose. What happens when you lose? Nothing. The city doesn’t actually explode. It’s not game over. I believe you can even restart the mission. If you go back in with an understanding of what will happen I am confident any team that made it that far would be able to complete the mission. It’s not even a “get good” scenario. It’s a “the more you know” scenario. Its also a situation that adds value to many different powers and archetypes. Breaking up the damage is king mentality. Instead of “lolz you took rise of the phoenix, my toon never dies!” It becomes, “rise of the Phoenix, I guess we are saved, but fix your build bro.”

I was running a team in RWZ and we had a similar situation occur during a Serpent Drummer mission. I think it was the “help with security conference” mission. It was the mission that takes place inside the Vanguard base against nemesis. I was running the mission at lvl 38 with generic IOs, aside from a couple unique globals. We were a team of 7 running at +1x8. For some reason the team was split when the security computer was activated. Chaos, death, and debt soon ensued with waves of nemesis pouring in. You rez in the hospital in the Vanguard base in which the mission takes place. Soon the hospital was crawling with nemesis just waiting to pick us off as we tried to regain a foothold. The lvl 50 fully IOd ice tank, who had just joined the team prior to this mission, quit almost immediately after things went south. Leaving us with 6 mish mash lvls of toons fighting for our lives. At some point, recalling my old Counter Strike days, I yelled out “SPAWN CAMPERS” in chat. 5-10 intense minutes later, many deaths, much debt, we were all standing on a pile of our enemies’ fallen bodies. Had our team been more patient and together when the ambushes began we probably would have been fine. Similar to the city hall ambush in Posi 1. If your team is not moving in coordination, or people don’t know what is going to occur, you end up in trouble in a hurry. Those city hall ambushes will bird dog anybody in the mission and often end up at the zone in location. It’s the losses that make the victories so sweet. I haven’t experienced this particular mission but I would be hesitant to have any part of it changed. There are so few moments in the game that can lead to actual failure, and not just a trip to the hospital or a simple “mission failed” mission completion. I am sure it can be handled when the team knows what to expect. It’s not like the toon has to be deleted. Logging out and back in will place you outside the mission door to either coordinate your current effort or come back later with knowledge as your weapon. Much of the game is easy for vets simply because they know things like, “ you get close to that city hall door, your whole team better commit to what’s coming out of it, or you’re going to have trouble.” Don’t fight Reichsman, run away. Pop inspirations before you fight your team’s doppelgängers, etc. I vote leave the spawn campers and the few chances of failure. PS - we failed that Serpent Drummer mission after overcoming all the chaos because somebody rushed into the room with Lady Grey, without the team, and couldn’t handle it so Lady Grey died ☠️

I also decided on rebirth for my rad/ tank. I went with the +hp branch because my regen was already fairly high. I also like to be able to top off any blaster/squishy that might take an aoe or stray shot. Ground zero is slotted for damage but more often than not I hold onto it until somebody takes a little damage to provide a little heal and aoe damage.

I feel the same way. I only have 3 brutes and no plans for more. A dm/fire, stj/regen, and em/elec. The dark melee/ fire brute was made before the tank changes and is likely going to be remade into a tank. Brutes are my preferred archetype for regen because of the higher hp and the taunt aura. This is a double edged sword though since more aggro means more incoming damage. If regen ever ports to tanks I’ll be done with it on brutes. The energy melee/electric is a brute because I wanted an energy melee toon. Scrappers don’t have energy melee and stalkers can’t crit energy transfer, for damage, while fury buffs it just fine. The single target nature of energy melee, I felt, favors brutes over tanks. If stalkers get ET crits or scrappers get energy melee I’ll be done with this brute as well. In short. Single target sets that don’t exist for scrappers or stalkers, or Armor sets that don’t exist for tanks and don’t offer +dam. However, any attack set that would favor a brute over other melee toons is... better as an assault set! As stand alone powersets and not part of a set combo. Decision: Regen? Energy aura

Update. I ended up reinstalling Island Rum and it patched and is working correctly again. The icon for island Rum is different now, not sure if that’s part of what it was trying to do today or if the version I installed ended up being a newer version.

I booted into the game with Island Rum and it told me I needed to run the patcher. I backed out of the game and tried to rescan and patch and now I’m stuck and can’t get passed the message. “Processing Manifest” “Fetching Launchers”. I have closed Island Rum, reopened, and reset path multiple times and I can’t get passed “fetching launchers”

Raising the minimums while holding the maximums is a catchy phrase for sure. Slightly increasing the single target damage of a largely single target power set doesn’t seem like as much power creep as simply replacing a redundant single target attack with an aoe, ie cobra strike into dragon’s tail. Mass aoe damage and blowing up entire spawns before other players can even contribute is the cry on these forums almost constantly. In fact, these aoe death machine teams often have people just jumping from one large group to another, as quickly as possible, blowing up minions and lieutenants and leaving bosses behind for cleanup by the weaker/single target toons. People are calling for energy melee to be returned to its former self. Energy melee and martial arts have very similar playstyles and goals. Heavy single target with minimal to no aoe. The problem with these sets is they are outperformed in single target by sets that also outperform them in aoe damage by an astronomical amount. As I said before, energy melee already stacks stuns. Raising those minimums, as you say, would do next to nothing for the set. Energy melee is your example of this already. Is battle axe better than war mace because its minimums are more consistent? Let single target sets do single target damage Power creep is giving dark melee more aoe damage. Plain and simple. Letting martial arts hit a single target with a 13% crit rate as opposed to a 10% crit rate is a minor damage increase. I propose cleaving crane kick because it fits the animation and would increase single target damage and add “flavor” aoe, not any sort of meaningful aoe. Restore energy melee to its former self and increase the single target of martial arts. Let energy melee bring the cRuNcH @Camel and martial arts bring the KaPoW.

Stacking stuns is sort of energy melee’s thing. I like the increased crit chances and would rather see those expanded. My biggest issue is cobra strike and crane kick. I love crane kick. The problem is these two attacks are clones numbers wise. I never have a reason to have both of these powers in my build. Turn crane kick into a cleave type power. Slightly increased range and damage with a narrow cone. The problem I have with spin kick has a little to do with the animation itself. The animation is great! The problem is it spins in the opposite direction as dragon’s tail. Do a spin kick into a dragon’s tail. Do you know how hard it is to stop the momentum of that rotation and reverse it? Zero flow, missed opportunities. The assassin strike animation is what keeps me from playing it on a stalker. The original is bad. The alternate is no better. Those animations don’t feel like they fit in with the style of the rest of the set. I propose a move like Guile’s flash kick as an assassin strike. Leg uppercut!! Expand the increased crit chances! Cleave Crane Kick! Leg uppercut assassin’s strike!

Actually they would be beating down rioters, ie hellions, AND prosecuting the FEW bad cops. Your moral compass is broken.

Great job team Neverlasting.

I feel regen works in the same way and people don’t always understand how that works. Reconstruction is a reactive power but dull pain is sort of a hybrid or even a trap. Dull pain has a large heal that can be used reactively, but it has a rather significant delay on the heal. I believe this happens because it applies the +hp first, then heals you. This delay, plus the long recharge, make dull pain a lesser reactive power. One weakness regen has is spike damage. Dull pain gives a large amount of +hp and has a fairly long duration. On a regen you get much more mileage out of that long duration +hp than you do the one time heal. Not only does it make you less susceptible to spike damage but it also greatly increases you hp/s regen, increasing your sustain. Instant healing is also much better at sustaining you than clicking as a reaction in an attempt to save yourself. People think regen is too click heavy and a dps killer. Most of the time the only click you should be using during dps times is reconstruction. If all you’re doing is reacting, you’re likely not doing very well. Even MoG is best used proactively. Use it before you take the alpha, not after.

I skipped steam spray on mine. I like whirlpool and use it often and felt 4 aoes was too many to use. Did I really gimp myself skipping steam spray? I felt like after 3 aoes I was on single target clean up and a fourth aoe wasn’t needed.

Turn black hole into a single target wormhole. Preferably a three stage power similar to Ki Push. Initially the target suffers repel in the direction of the teleport, then they teleport to the selected area, finally they exit the teleport with mag 1000 kB along the same vector as the repel. Maybe still not the most useful power, but it would sure be fun, and it would keep its initial idea of being able to remove a single target from the fight. In a building you could send them flying down a hall or across a room. Outside you could send them across the map or straight into the air. You could target practice on the blimp in Atlas. Hold shooting contests, or HORSE contests. The possibilities are endless. Of course this would make the whole set extremely OP on the fun scale and the rest would have to be nerfed. Executioner Shot animation with your hand in the shape of a gun. The rest of your animations would be the simple “go away” hand wave emote with no particle effects. Like, “I am doing something over here but I don’t really care what it is, and neither do you, because whatever it is, it’s not black hole!”

You could switch to running tip missions. I can’t confirm they will spawn in King’s Row but when I run tips on my toons I generally always run them in Atlas Park regardless of my current level. They don’t drop until lvl 20 so you might have to make a cameo in another hero’s city to cover the lvl range gap if there is one.

Don't forget to pick up darkest night from the soul patron pool. It’s something like -30% dam since the tanker buffs. I run it with my lvl 49 ice/km tank built for the same purpose

Great thread that one! Especially for anybody interested in sentinel to scrapper comparisons and how a scrapper would perform with sentinel instant regeneration.