WindDemon21

Which is where I again reference my idea of making it a non stackable taoe AND pbaoe with a generous radius.

Is there a cap to the amount of character items you can hold? I'm pretty sure there is for email, which someone in help said 100 emails. Is this the same for character items? Do they share the same cap?

Oh yeah I'm fine with that too AS LONG AS the stats for it first and foremost as it should be happen before any other balancing factor. Ie 45 second duration (full value, we have the ORIGINAL main version of the power, it SHOULD be better).

I love the cone on shiver, but part of why is because it covers such a large area, but I do share part of the annoyance using it in melee, but I also love using outside of melee and not having to enter melee in certain situations. As a compromise I would suggest something unique for it similar to fulcrum shift. It is a wide area 50ft radius both pbaoe AND taoe. The debuffs from each would not stack. So this way you can use it both in and out of melee. In addition to obviously to an increased 45 second duration. Then the chance to hold or whatever else can be determined after those base stats. But I would be more than happy with JUST those changes. It's an area soft control though. Definitely nothing specifically stronger to just a single target.

That could certainly be, I wouldn't claim to be the end all knower of coding lol. But I feel like with at least something it would have been done by now if it was possible. I would be 100% for that change if it IS possible though lol.

I'm fairly certain that the coding doesn't exist for a cone greater than a 180 degree cone aka backwards. If that existed then they could just make all pbaoe powers a 360 degree "cone" and thus affected by range modifiers. Don't get me wrong I would LOVE that, I just think it's one of those spaghetti code nightmares. Agreed, I like it best as a cone, cause it lets you use it out of battle if needed to a way better effect. The duration just needs bumped up massively so you don't have to spam it. It was, and you don't want to know the day I had after. Then i27 hit... lol. Also, something that we've all been missing that I thought of, that can be unique to ice control, IS the "shiver/freezing" mechanism. Not just casing in ice, flash freeze and the holds already do that. I'm talking, even if specifically only to shiver, that they just stand there and shiver in place, kind of like the vomit of poison/traps etc. It would be a unique mechanism that adds to the control, and can even be guaranteed on the first hit of shiver. So it's a non-enhanceable "hold", but makes them all shiver and will proc every so often to do that for it, and any other -rech/slow powers in the ice control set. Looking at those other posts seems to be in line on the previous versions really. I think that whole new shiver mechanic fixes a lot of issues without overpowering it, and it can be a factor for any power in ice control basically. I'm fine with flash freeze being really the only "self" opening power. Any other time there is any melee to start it shiver/aa/ice slick/frostbite with the "oh crap" power glacier feels fine to me. Freeze just needs to be better at that initial strike, aka no up front damage. As far as increasing damage, having just shiver, possibly all powers depending on amount/unresistable etc, make sense to have a -resist portion to them as well, or a -hp debuff would make sense also allowing more damage to be done essentially.

FYI the cone on power crash is amazing, thanks for listening about changing stun to that. Any chance we can get shadow maul bumped up to 10ft too and ToF's radius increased?

Haha wooo, thanks that bugged me to no end. Funny description.

I have thought that in the past too, and though it's been a while I was pretty sure that it seemed to be 2 seconds for each i've test. As long as with arcanatime, crit proc on TF, i can get EP, BS, and then ET in the crit proc duration i'll be happy, but may need that .1s shaved off to do it if it's like my other tests.

Ah ok that's good to know i thought something was off. Regarding the animation time, I think i thought that based on other similar power dpa/dps like focus etc, plus makes it that 2 seconds with crit proc allowing for a 3rd boosted attack. In my testings, only within 2 seconds can you get a 3rd attack out in that proc, even though the proc says 3 seconds. Is there any further details on this? Any time i've tested two attacks that were barely over 2 seconds, the 3rd attack never seemed to get the proc bonus.

I thought it was supposed to be 1.17s? It also appears it's damage was lowered and is now the worst ST DPA in the set? Even Barrage which is tier 1 does more damage and DPA than this at tier 3 and is on a 6s rech, where bone smasher is 8s rech.. Also, 1.17s is a big deal, at least as far as my testing goes, only when followed attacks are within 2 seconds of the scrapper crit proc can you get a 3rd attack with the extra crit bonus. Can we also fix the proc to show an icon when the crit proc bonus is up.

Except that shiver is a cone, which would force you to move out of melee to hit the whole mob. The point of giving shiver the longer duration is to freeze, then use shiver, then go in melee with AA and have shiver lasting most of the battle while you're in melee. Adding more damage to ice control great, adding it to shiver, bad. Having your hold chance as long as it doesn't wake enemies, good. Proccing it out for damage, good for you, bad for me, hence I wouldn't proc it, but you can, so win win. (Also adding more slow sets with damage procs, between those and hold damage procs no need for a tiny damage in the power itself, though it would make sense to me if the power itself had some -res in it. I don't think anyone suggested adding more -rech. I suggested lowering the recharge of the power itself and increasing the duration. Though if the duration was bumped to 60s, then I think a 30s rech would be fine then. Will check back on those after breakfast, it's nom nom time! Lol

You're not using it right. Flash freeze is JUST for the alpha (if needed obviously ie no meat shield, or obviously if you get a second mob etc) Also, if they're slept, the confuse from AA isn't doing anything either unless they're prematurely woken up as well :P. You freeze them first (which that damage is bugging and getting retaliation from it ruining this aspect), then you shiver/debuff from your secondary, jump in, let AA further slow and confuse them (see you still use it, you just don't ONLY use it. This is where shiver needs that longer duration to keep working when you're in melee since its a cone), then lay an ice slick down and frostbite. This way half the mob is confused, half is being knocked down, and all have their recharge seriously hurting. The problems right now though is that damage is waking them to retaliate first before they're slept, and shiver has very borked recharge/ duration stats. Removing the damage and making FFs recharge 60 seconds, Ice slick 60 seconds, and Shiver's duration 60 seconds would round out all those powers much more perfectly for this setup keeping ice the king of soft control. Ffs purpose is just to give you that time to set up those other powers after if needed (again ie no meat shield) I'm not against shiver getting a hold chance, just as long as it doesn't wake them up which iirc it doesn't, but no damage for sure cause that would. And I'm all for the whole after effect ice block thing for FF, but that initial damage either way needs to go. Oh you seemed to have misinterpreted me on that one. I'm not saying it's bad for it to HAVE that damage, only that it seems to be something they haven't figured out how to fix yet so it no longer bugs and causes retaliation. If they fix it so this no longer happens, then that's fine. But if they CAN'T figure out how to do this, then the damage (at least up front) has to go. If you're going that route, I guarantee you that only a 50% chance for mag 2 hold nabbing only half of the minions isn't going to help anywhere near enough for an opener. To give it more proc-ability sure, but (obv excluding lockdown proc) a power should not be designed around procs. Again if they want to add it, and it doesn't break the sleep I have zero problems with that, just that it's not worth it if it costs inadequate stats that the power needs.

Why does the blaster have 40% resistance to all? Are you not using any mez on the blaster? Are you not using your absorb shield? Are you not considering other secondaries that do better in a single target fight?

But at least for issue 27, make all MM secondary values the same as troller/corrs.

Exactly. There is literally like 50% of issue 28 that needs to fix MM issues.

I mean, it should. MMs have a SLEW of problems. Starting from needing the upgrades to be auto, into always having the powers and a complete reqork and new power, to one of the main issues of the pets going down to -2 levels of you. But again, a secondary is a secondary. It should have the same stats as a troller/corruptor. I know force fields are the same etc, but it seems mainly that debuffs, which already get majorly resisted, are the things that have lower values.

I still don't get why some powers have an even lower value than troller/corruptors. Its a secondary set no matter the primary, and MMs need some changes as is already anyway.

There is, and its the radius. The same issue exists on STJ's Spinning Strike. It's why I have just now again shelved my stj scrapper. 6ft on a taoe is just not enough and is horrid. Especially since you can't position your body to maximize the aoe, it and spinning strike as well as thunder strike need to be a 10ft radius. Though I still think spinning strike makes much more sense as a pbaor since you're spinning your body.

Yes lol. Was even thinking for flash freeze, nix the damage until shatter like suggested, but do a mini "icy caltrops" patch where it explodes. Also per shiver again, I'm fine with the chance to hold, as long as it doesn't break sleep, or affect the power getting better stats.

I've been saying this forever, move mass confusion to 18, lower it's rech to 90s same as total dom, ditch telekinesis, and move psionic nexus to 32. Also, yeah aoe holds across the board should be at least 2 minutes, if not 90s recharge by now, and should not have an accuracy penalty for aoe controls. Heck nukes get an accuracy BONUS, not a penalty, and they actually kill the mob.

Also per shiver, again just needs better stats, but in the aspect for the set to have more damage (which most any other suggestion already has done so), it could even be given a -res, or even more on target with cold powers a -hp debuff. Again though no damage or anything that would wake mobs up from sleep.

I get that, but at the same time a longer rech, with more damage means more DPA, as well as better proc-ability. That was a change suggested to ALL controller ST immobilizes, cause as of right now they're pretty bad for focusing on damage or procs. I would also prefer to keep shiver without a damage component as well, as in any flash freeze scenario, cause no matter how it changes we know it will largely remain a sleep first power, it is best to follow up with shiver without actually waking the mobs. If you want to wake them up, that's what frostbite is for. Shiver just needs better adjusted stats, not a damage component. Especially as with AA, you're mainly in melee anyway to want to spam a cone like that, hence the longer duration needed for shiver. I agree to an extent, and not that ice control shouldn't have some sort of a damage bump, but simply that having that damage with the sleep itself, is really bad for starting groups. Being a sleep already has it's main drawback for starting fights like that, and besides ice slick ice has no other "every mob control" that almost every other control set has. The ideas floating around about having the damage occur, at least in some form, when they wake up/broken out of it is fine, but when you're talking about using it for a proc power, it's completely negating it's actual use as a fight opener like every other control set can do, which again, ice isn't stepping on any toes with it's only real every mob opener being a sleep. I think, in a large part of this discussion, where procs are the consideration for damage, that one, the slow sets in this game REALLY need an overhaul on stats (damage being more enhanced that end/rech or even accuracy in some what!??) and in bonuses, and outright needing more sets, which at least 2 more with a damage proc each would give you those procs right there. So if you want to slot damage procs, THAT'S where it should come from, not from having a tiny amount of damage just to be able to slot those procs in it. Also, how about a 3rd new slow set, with a -res proc? Yes please. But damage in flash freeze's initial hit causing retaliation from it's only every mob "lockdown" power, no thanks. As mentioned, no damage on shiver or anything else that would wake up from sleep. It's a great power on it's own, it should just have better duration/rech/acc. I think that'd be a fair thing to adopt for Ice Control as well - what do you think? Again that's the blaster version, this is one of our main powers as ice control. It should last it's full duration, just longer. I honestly see it as one of the most cornerstone powers besides AA for ice control when I take it, I just hate how it's stats are, and that even the blaster version is easier to use. Yes I agree, they all should only suppress not detoggle (stares at rad emission). Yep, as mentioned above this would work, just again, the damage would be in the formation, not the initial sleep hit.

Yeah it may I wasn't sure, I just know since it's a damage power first primarily, and mag 4s bosses a good while after or at least detoggles stuff, that it's much less of an issue vs. Flash Freeze. I do know for sure that they don't retaliate often as well, just couldn't guarantee they 100% don't.

I'll have to test again but I don't think Mesmerize has that problem. Flash Freeze didn't always either, but it has been an issue as far as I can tell since homecoming for whatever reason. WHATEVER changes come to Flash Freeze, that small damage at the start of it has to go.