Fire/Bio testing.

[Sovera]

A spin-off from the Rad/Bio to embrace our firey overlord (while also enjoying the elegantly fast animations of Fire instead.. of.. posturing... and...shooting.. Matrix slow motion...).

 

Same deal, same idea: With /Bio being so arduous to softcap the defenses are pushed close to 40% and then Barrier takes the slack adding the last 5% (Barrier *always* adds at least 5% defense). Fast animations, Offensive Adaption, KO Blow to accelerate the build and do Inferno levels of damage in single target every 12 seconds. Inferno backed by Aim goes to 646 damage and then Offensive Adaptation pushes it further to 839. In the same vein KO Blow starts at 691 with Aim to then reach 898 😅...that poor boss in the middle of a pack taking Inferno + KO Blow to the face backed by Aim...

 

 

This is currently a place to write things down and ponder how to best achieve best overall results instead of pure damage in a vacuum.

 

For example Fire Blast allows Defensive Opportunity which pretty much negates endurance woes all by itself (and in actual testing from the Rad/Ninjutsu Defensive Opportunity actually made for better times than Offensive Opportunity), but Fire Blast is a 'long' 1.8 animation steering away from Fire's beautifully fast combo making. So, decisions time. But with Justin the PTS back up it's easy enough to just try the different things and see what works out better.

 

Current questions:

 

- Worth it to lose 10% recharge time to fit the -res in Fireball? Or instead lose a damage proc in Blaze to regain the 10% recharge? Or sacrifice the -KB in Blazing Blast? -KB is mostly 'cosmetic', but pushing and then doing a KB on top of that is incredibly obnoxious since the inertia of being repelled is added to the KB distance.

- The endurance seems like it will be a problem. Worth it to slot Fire Blast to make it a non thing?

- Accuracy seems low-ish. This makes wanting to run Tactics tempting, but, its slotting is atrocious and the endurance problems rear its head once more.

 

 

Rotation musings:

 

At first glance simply changing Flares for Fire Blast would allow for Blaze (1.2 animation, 3.11 recharge), Blazing Blast (1.8 animation, 3.44 recharge) and Fire Blast (1.8 animation, 1.4 recharge).

 

1.8 + 1.8 = 3.6, Blaze has recharged when the cycle starts again. 1.2 + 1.8 = 3 seconds, Blazing Blast has a 0.44 gap before it recharges which can be filled with Fireball (1.2 animation, 4.46 recharge).  1.2 + 1.8 + 1.8 = 4.8 animation which fits Fireball's recharge and Fireball can be fitted with a -res proc so this is practical. But if we add Fireball we can cut down on Fire Blast's 'long' animation and move back to Flares because 1.2 + 1.2 + 1.8 + 1.2 = 5.4 animation which is more than enough to get Blaze and Blazing Bolt back up.

 

So Blaze, Blazing Blast, Fireball, Blaze and Flares, where Flares can be substituted for Haste/Destiny/KO Blow/Aim.

Or 1.2, 1.8, 1.2, 0.11 gap, 1.2, 1.2. And now a 2.2 gap until Blazing Blast recharges. With Fire Blast this would become a 1.6. No need to chase Flares quick recharge if it gives a larger gap in waiting, incidentally fixing endurance problems by activating Defensive Opportunity, and instead of substituting Fire Blast for Hasten/Destiny/Aim/KO Blow we use the 1.6 second gap for those.

 

Or we ignore the 0.44 gap since it's so minor. The tiniest bit of latency, Hasten/Destiny going off, etc etc and half a second is gone making the rotation take 1.2 + 1.8 + 1.8 + 0.44 = 5.24 animation + gap. Sort of a wash except in EPS and -res proc chances. With the build having some endurance problems due to being so tight in slots EPS is a consideration.

 

Using Fire Blast is not perfect because Fire primes for the beautifully short animations and we mar it with FB, but Fire Blast does trigger Defensive Opportunity which can be a consideration for some builds because of the endurance recovery, and it also does more damage (121 Flares VS 189 Fire Blast) though it eats more animation time. KO Blow for the Force Feedback proc to accelerate the build (and because T9 levels of damage ST every 12 seconds, sure) can take the place of Fire Blast/Flares, or even Fireblast/Flares + Fireball combined (not counting with Aim or Offensive adaptation KO Blow 2.4 animation and 447 damage. Flares + Fireball 2.4 animation and 243 damage total. KO Blow also has the Force Feedback to make everything recharge faster).

 

 

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.3
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Sentinel
Primary Power Set: Fire Blast
Secondary Power Set: Bio Armor
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Leviathan Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Flares -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(A), SprWntBit-Dmg/Rchg(3), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(3), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(5), SprWntBit-Rchg/SlowProc(7)
Level 1: Hardened Carapace -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(7), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(9), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(9)
Level 2: Fire Ball -- Rgn-Knock%(A), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(13), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(15), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(15), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(17), Ann-ResDeb%(17)
Level 4: Environmental Adaptation -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(19)
Level 6: Blaze -- SprSntWar-Acc/Dmg(A), SprSntWar-Dmg/Rchg(19), SprSntWar-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), SprSntWar-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(21), SprSntWar-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23), SprSntWar-Rchg/+Absorb(23)
Level 8: Fly -- Empty(A)
Level 10: Adaptation
Level 12: Hover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(25)
Level 14: Afterburner -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 16: Ablative Carapace -- Pnc-Heal/EndRedux(A), Pnc-EndRdx/Rchg(25), Pnc-Heal/Rchg(27), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(27), Pnc-Heal(29)
Level 18: Blazing Blast -- OvrFrc-Dam/KB(A), Apc-Dam%(29), Apc-Dmg/Rchg(31), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), Apc-Acc/Rchg(31), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(33)
Level 20: Rebuild DNA -- Pnc-EndRdx/Rchg(A), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux(33), Pnc-Heal/Rchg(33), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(34), Pnc-Heal(34)
Level 22: Inexhaustible -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 24: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(40)
Level 26: Rain of Fire -- SprOppStr-Acc/Dmg(A), SprOppStr-Dmg/Rchg(37), SprOppStr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), SprOppStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39), SprOppStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), SprOppStr-Rchg/+Opportunity(39)
Level 28: Boxing -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(34), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(36), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(37)
Level 30: Aim -- RechRdx-I(A), GssSynFr--Build%(40), RechRdx-I(40)
Level 32: Inferno -- SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(A), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(42), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(42), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(43)
Level 35: Knockout Blow -- KntCmb-Acc/Dmg(A), KntCmb-Dmg/Rchg(43), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Hct-Acc/Rchg(45), FrcFdb-Rechg%(46)
Level 38: Tough -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(46)
Level 41: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(46)
Level 44: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(48), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(50)
Level 47: Genomic Evolution -- UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(A), UnbGrd-Max HP%(48), UnbGrd-ResDam(48), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(50)
Level 49: Tactics -- RctRtc-ToHit(A), RctRtc-ToHit/Rchg(50)
Level 1: Defensive Adaptation
Level 1: Brawl -- KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), KntCmb-Acc/Dmg(11), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx(11), KntCmb-Dmg/Rchg(13)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 10: Efficient Adaptation
Level 10: Offensive Adaptation
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 1: Opportunity
Level 50: Barrier Core Epiphany
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon
------------

 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2019 by Sovera

[Sovera]

First tests in with Degenerative 75% chance and 25% DoT, Musculature 45%, Hybrid (not clicked):

 

- Endurance is incapable of keeping up with the demands. Even without Tough and Tactics toggled on, even with Defensive Opportunity, I ran dry in two minutes. I had to take some slots from other places to slot a Miracle and add a second +5 slot to Stamina for the build to manage to hold on to the four minute mark when I ran dry again, but since it was the very end of the test I kept on without toggles.

 

- Disappointing performance. At the four minute mark I stopped the test since the pylon still stood and had 1/5th HP. There goes the dream of reaching three minutes thanks to /Bio pushing more than /Ninjutsu.

[Sovera]

Odd discoveries as I tested:

 

- Inferno is supposed to do Fire and Smash damage but only does Fire damage if Aim is not used. If Aim is used Smash and Fire happens. In practical terms who cares, we only use Inferno with Aim anyway, but yeah.

 

- As I mentioned to @modest assumptions are an ass. We hear say, we assume, we napkin math, but empirical test is where its at, and as it goes, no, /Bio is not an around the board 30% damage boost as I kept parroting In particular the omfg look at these T9 numbers hue hue hue. Tested on fire mobs, then lethal mobs, then +0 mobs, then +4 mobs, but the damage increase was within a 0.5%:

 

Inferno:

 120 smash + 291 fire = 411
 128 smash + 310 fire + 8 Offense damage tick= 446
  8.5%

 

Blaze:

170 + 20 fire tick = 190
186 + 22 fire tick +17 Offense damage tick= 225

18%

 

 

Blazing Bolt:

77 + 8 + 104 from 13 ticks = 189

85 + 9 + 122 from 13 ticks + 19 Offense damage tick = 235
24%

 

 

Fire Blast:

 

113
134
18%

 

Unless otherwise stated I always included one tick from the Fire's DoT if the damage does a DoT. This is because I was testing for the % and not the damage that each skill did with their variable DoT ticks.

[modest]

@Sovera I wonder if a better attack chain could be made with Blaze --> Char (using the 2 Hami + 2 procs that you mentioned) --> Blazing Blast and Fire Ball as a filler.

 

I am happy that you included at least one DoT tick in your calculations. Other players seem to completely disregard the DoT effect when calculating damage, or they assume that the DoT effect is already included in the skill's in-game displayed damage. The DoT is a significant part of Fire Blast's appeal.

 

I didn't take Blazing Blast because it wasn't working properly before the recent patch.

[Sovera]

Charr is 32 seconds, that's too large a CD. I putzed around a bit and changed things to Psi Epic. to have Dominate since it recharges in 16 seconds, but /Bio is so tight in powers and sloting trying to aim for the 40% goal that it just threw everything into disarray.

 

At this point I'm just ah feggadaboutit.

[Obitus]

1 hour ago, modest said:

Other players seem to completely disregard the DoT effect when calculating damage, or they assume that the DoT effect is already included in the skill's in-game displayed damage. The DoT is a significant part of Fire Blast's appeal.

lol, no

[modest]

Just now, Obitus said:

lol, no

This thread is a spin off from a separate discussion on Rad/Bio builds that use procs to try to match Fire Blast's damage. It literally has nothing to do with you. As I said in my reply to your linked post, it's best if we simply stopped responding to each other.

 

Thank you for your suggestions in the other thread.

[Obitus]

23 minutes ago, modest said:

This thread is a spin off from a separate discussion on Rad/Bio builds that use procs to try to match Fire Blast's damage. It literally has nothing to do with you. As I said in my reply to your linked post, it's best if we simply stopped responding to each other.

I'd be happy to stop replying to you, if you'd stop making obviously dumb, tendentious, and passive aggressive claims like the following:

 

1 hour ago, modest said:

Other players seem to completely disregard the DoT effect when calculating damage, or they assume that the DoT effect is already included in the skill's in-game displayed damage. The DoT is a significant part of Fire Blast's appeal.

 

I conclusively proved that this quote is false in the linked post.  You've now replied to me twice without even trying to address the evidence.

Edited September 11, 2019 by Obitus

[Sovera]

You have too much energy, Obitus my dude.

[Mercurias]

3 hours ago, Sovera said:

You have too much energy, Obitus my dude.

Forum beefs are sad, man. When you forum beef, that’s the moment you realize you need to go do something else for your own mental health and happiness.

 

im sorry you’re having trouble crunching something ideal with Fire/Bio, Sovera. I was watching this thread with interest. I’m still trying to decide what to pair with Bio.

[Sovera]

4 hours ago, Mercurias said:

Forum beefs are sad, man. When you forum beef, that’s the moment you realize you need to go do something else for your own mental health and happiness.

 

im sorry you’re having trouble crunching something ideal with Fire/Bio, Sovera. I was watching this thread with interest. I’m still trying to decide what to pair with Bio.

/Bio's largesse with offering a '30%' buff, which turned out to be much much less than that with actual testing, is completely overshadowed by the strenuously tight power and sloting which was the original reason I had stopped playing with the powerset. To be honest Fire does not feel like all that but it might still work if paired with Ninjutsu which is my go to defensive sentinel set.

 

The enemies already flee like decapitated chickens the moment their HP reaches 25% ish and Rain of Fire just making them start doing so earlier does not help. With a less tight build we can work in the Elec epic pool, get Chain Fences to force the mobs to stay close (who need agro auras anyway?), have Lightning field to aid in the AoEing down, and finally have more slots to increase recovery.

 

So Fire/Ninjutsu might make better use of the bug fix if one wants to explore Fire's beautifully fast animations.

 

Sadly, Sentinel /Bio does not live to the expectations after seeing the preposterous numbers and what it can do with other ATs.

[Knottewe]

Can I recommend that you try out energy aura before going back to nin?

 

It only takes a little more investment that nin (I spent 2 more slots on it and 2 more slots in weave) but the big thing it adds is energise which, combined with preventive medicine, reactive defenses, and unbreakable guard, nets you a 70% endurance reduction. In real world terms that's a 46% reduction in all costs. You do have to cast it every 30 seconds but it casts slot faster than nin's end clickie, same animation and cast time as aim, and includes a 500ish heal and a bunch of regen. I just followed your guide and set it to auto with hasten.

 

The drawback is it typed defense instead of positional and there's a massive psi hole but I just ignored that. You also get some recharge (20%), a lot more  DDR (27.7 vs 41.5), and a lot more resistance to everything except psi.

[oldskool]

12 hours ago, Sovera said:

At this point I'm just ah feggadaboutit.

Pretty much what I say to trying to build a lot of defense on most Sentinels too.  The defense-based sets make it easier to soft-cap but they often need to because their resistance is lower.  I find I can get away with a lot less defense on a lot of Sentinel builds in general play than I might with Scrappers.  Then again, I don't try to solo everything in the game on every character I play.  So I guess I just accept the weaknesses and move on.  For those that can and do solo stuff like the ITF, bravo.  Its just not for me.  I have no idea if any of my characters even *can* solo it.  I just don't bother to find out! 😄

[Mercurias]

Is there a reason you prefer /Ninja to /SR? I know Nin has some nice extra tools, but doesn’t SR get anjce little 20% recharge buff?

[Knottewe]

Nin offers and endurance click which is good for about 65% of your end on a 20 second cool down where SR has a recovery buff.

 

SR does have a 20% recharge bonus but Blinding Powder in Nin allows you to slot Coercive Persuasion, the confusion purple set, that give 10% recharge and 5% ranged def.

 

Nin also offers stealth and a "travel power"

 

SR has a lot more DDR, choice of mez protection (clickie or toggle), and slightly higher base defenses but also takes 1 more power selection to get its full package (which is probably the biggest factor in Ninjitus favour)

 

 

[Sovera]

3 hours ago, Mercurias said:

Is there a reason you prefer /Ninja to /SR? I know Nin has some nice extra tools, but doesn’t SR get anjce little 20% recharge buff?

Other than what Knottewe said the biggest thing he did not mention is the heal. The absorb shield is nice, but it's not a heal, and I, at least, noticed its lack in gameplay since Aid-Self could not keep up. 

 

That said it's personal choice

[Astredax]

I've got a fire/bio that's softcapped to everything but psi and can take a pylon down in about 4 minutes or so, maybe faster but I haven't checked since I respecced to do even more damage.  It can also take out +4 AVs without using -regen effects.  

 

If you want to push fire/bio sentinel damage as high as it can go you actually want to take the psi pool for dominate and mind probe.  Combine those with blaze and then you use flares for filler.  Ageless to handle the endurance drain is pretty important if you're against a single target too since dominate costs so much endurance.   

[EyeLuvBooks]

On 9/11/2019 at 10:31 PM, Mercurias said:

Forum beefs are sad, man. When you forum beef, that’s the moment you realize you need to go do something else for your own mental health and happiness.

 

im sorry you’re having trouble crunching something ideal with Fire/Bio, Sovera. I was watching this thread with interest. I’m still trying to decide what to pair with Bio.

I used Assault Rifle but that was because I had a good theme for the character in mind. I understand the problem with 'My brain has trouble coming up with something to match that set that I like the theme AND the mechanics.'