More damage solo: Corr vs Def?

[DarknessEternal]

If we’re talking about pure solo play, which AT actually does more damage in apples to apples comparisons?

[Seigmoraig]

Typically Corruptor will deal more damage but there are some exceptions. Some sets have -def debuffs in them (sonic) and those debuff numbers will be higher on Defender than Corruptor so in those cases the Defender will edge out the Corruptor in damage.

 

The Corr works off a 0.750 damage scale where as the Def works off a 0.650 scale. On top of that the Corr has his crit mechanic that helps him deal more damage. So excluding certain debuff heavy sets, Corruptor in general will deal more damage on top of getting his damage abilities sooner

[Darkir]

42 minutes ago, Seigmoraig said:

Typically Corruptor will deal more damage but there are some exceptions. Some sets have -def debuffs in them (sonic) and those debuff numbers will be higher on Defender than Corruptor so in those cases the Defender will edge out the Corruptor in damage.

 

The Corr works off a 0.750 damage scale where as the Def works off a 0.650 scale. On top of that the Corr has his crit mechanic that helps him deal more damage. So excluding certain debuff heavy sets, Corruptor in general will deal more damage on top of getting his damage abilities sooner

Remember we are talking about pure solo play, so although corruptors get scourge mechanic, the defenders get vigilance which is better for most content solo. Now even with that said most of the time corruptors will do more damage, but it gets messy and confusing when we consider individual sets, epic power pools, and possible proc builds. A kinetics corruptor for example will always do more dmg than a kin defender, but this may not be the case for something like a storm/water defender compared to a water/storm corruptor. The storm water defender can more easily have softcapped def and make a proc build that will out dmg the corruptor version, plus the defender soul drain and amplify (whatever waters version is called) will be more effective giving the edge to the defender. In general, the more reliably you can enhance your dmg, the more the corruptor will come out ahead because the extra base dmg and higher dmg buff cap really starts to shine the higher you go with dmg buffs. I think that sonic blast will do more dmg on a defender most of the time solo (the possible exception being a sonic/kin corruptor). It would be helpful to know what powersets the OP is thinking about in order to better answer this question. 

[DarknessEternal]

I was asking about the same sets compared to the same sets.

 

Obviously a fire/kin defender will outdamage an elec/dark corrupter, for example.

 

Basically, under what sets does vigilance+better buff/debuff beat scourge+scalar?

[Darkir]

2 hours ago, DarknessEternal said:

I was asking about the same sets compared to the same sets.

 

Obviously a fire/kin defender will outdamage an elec/dark corrupter, for example.

 

Basically, under what sets does vigilance+better buff/debuff beat scourge+scalar?

A poison/Sonic defender will outdamage a Sonic/poison corruptor. Sonic blast is the only set that can potentially beat a corruptor when solo. I think a cold/Sonic will also win, as well as a rad/Sonic, but I haven't run the numbers. 

[Sir Myshkin]

On 9/26/2019 at 5:45 PM, DarknessEternal said:

Basically, under what sets does vigilance+better buff/debuff beat scourge+scalar?

It won’t be so black and white unfortunately. When you put Procs into the equation, better -Res values on Defenders will better support a Defender build versus a Corr, regardless of +Dam capabilities. Being solo, you’ll also never hit damage cap outside of Kinetics, so that’s not even a consideration for most choices. In several cases their variance can/will be very little. You more have to decide which set do you access to more of your abilities sooner. If you were teaming, the Corr may see better (overall) benefit, but in a solo scenario, in my experiences/testing, I’d say the Defender option is going to be the better choice. Defenders don’t just get better debuffs, they get better buffs, and that includes values in toggles like Tough and Weave, Leadership, etc.

Edited September 29, 2019 by Sir Myshkin

[Frosticus]

imo they are pretty interchangeable from a damage standpoint. some do more for corrs like rain powers and some do more for defenders like poison debuffs and soul drain.

 

for me the decision more often comes down to throw away powers and forced picks from the secondary.

 

All things being equal I'll end up selecting the defender because they are much easier to build to softcap def values which leaves more room for fun stuff. 

 

 

 

 

[ol206]

its going to very by combination, depending on how much -resist or +dmg the sets have; for example an emp/rad defender vs a rad/emp corrupter, the corrupter will win; on the other hand a rad/sonic defender vs a sonic/ rad corrupter, the defender may win by a small margin.

 

 

[bartwart]

Consider Pain domination as a defender primary, and pair it with Sonic secondary.  If you truly want to play solo and never ever team up, there are only a few powers in Pain dom you need to take:  Nullify Pain, Soothing Aura, World of Pain, and Anguishing cry.  You get two self-heals, and nice self resist/damage/to-hit buff.  Plus, Anguishing Cry synergizes well /sonic's resist debuf.  In the late game, you open up with anguishing cry -> nuke.  Sonic's nuke puts you in melee range anyway.  Super Speed + Stealth can get you into the middle of the mob before they even know what hit them.

 

And since you're taking so few primary powers, it frees  you up to taking all sorts of secondary powers sooner.

 

Of course, this concept would also work with a sonic/pain corruptor.

[bartwart]

Solo, a defender gets a 30% damage buff so its base damage is actually closer to 0.85.

[Darkir]

5 hours ago, bartwart said:

Solo, a defender gets a 30% damage buff so its base damage is actually closer to 0.85.

Right and scourge is hard to calculate but its generally accepted at around 20%-25%, making corruptor deal base damage of .9 if we wanna look at it this way. Still, what is more important is the effects of damage buffs when applied to your base dmg. Let's say you have a power that will do 75 dmg on a corruptor and 65 dmg on a defender, now you have 100% +dmg from enhancements, and 100% +dmg from a mostly saturated soul drain and a gaussian proc aim for +110.5% dmg on a corruptor and +130% dmg on a defender. That makes 310.5% +dmg on corr and 330% +dmg and another +30% for vigilance on a defender, unfortunately the defender caps at +300% dmg (400% total as 100% is considered your normal dmg unbuffed). So, this means the dmg on the corruptor attack is 307.85 (75x310.5%) and on the defender 260 (65x4 as 400% is the cap). It is very easy to run up against the dmg cap as a defender and quite difficult on a corruptor because of the slightly lower modifiers and the higher cap. Now lets say you can only consistently have soul drain up (this is easy to do) for 100% and the 100% from enhancements for 200% and we'll throw in the extra 30% from vigilance for the defender. The defender will do 214.5 (65x3.3) and corruptor will do 225 (75x3). So even if we completely disregard scourge (we shouldn't), the corruptor still comes out on top once we get into dmg buffs/enhancements. For this reason, if it is only damage we are considering (not worrying about defenses or resistances or the likelihood that you will likely faceplant with a build like this), corruptor will always do more dmg than a defender with the exception of sonic blast where the stacking better -res buffs will put the defender on top. I hope this makes sense.  I would never build a toon like this though, defenses and resistances are incredibly important in order to live and you do 0 dps while dead. For this reason, it is important to identify what powersets you would like to use and what you want to use the toon for when considering whether to build a corruptor or a defender. 

 

Edit: I should note that a lot of people seems to forget that the 95%-125% dmg (with or without the alpha) from enhancements is considered buffed dmg as far as the damage cap is concerned, but it is not shown in the damage buff monitor box in game. What this means in practice is that defenders really only need to hit about 200% +dmg buffs to hit the cap (as long as they have 100% damage from enhancements in their powers) and that the corruptor will need to hit about 300%. 

Edited October 2, 2019 by Darkir

[bartwart]

Great analysis.  I'd say if OP were looking to hit a high damage cap, something like a fire/kin corruptor would the the right choice.  Though I wonder if something like a sonic/kin would be even better, since it combines -res with +damage.

[Darkir]

4 minutes ago, bartwart said:

Great analysis.  I'd say if OP were looking to hit a high damage cap, something like a fire/kin corruptor would the the right choice.  Though I wonder if something like a sonic/kin would be even better, since it combines -res with +damage.

I have tested both and for solo play, the fire/kin wins for dmg output. The reason for this is due to the fire dots being boosted by the damage buffs as well, plus fire blast seems to have a higher base dmg compared to other sets. Now, if you want to increase the amount of dps your team does i.e. overall killing speed, I don't think anything would beat a kin/Sonic defender if you were the only support (it gets muddled when we start looking at more support sets being in the team).