Shotty Mario's Mind Control/Psionic perma-Domination build

[Display Name]

Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.5
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

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Final Desire: Level 50 Mutation Dominator
Primary Power Set: Mind Control
Secondary Power Set: Psionic Assault
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Mesmerize -- FrtHyp-Sleep(A), FrtHyp-Acc/Sleep/Rchg(3), FrtHyp-Acc/Rchg(3)
Level 1: Psionic Dart -- Apc-Dmg/Rchg(A), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), Apc-Acc/Rchg(5), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(36), Apc-Dam%(42)
Level 2: Dominate -- BslGaz-Acc/Hold(A), BslGaz-Acc/Rchg(7), BslGaz-Rchg/Hold(7), BslGaz-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(34)
Level 4: Mind Probe -- Mk'Bit-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Mk'Bit-Dmg/Rchg(9), Mk'Bit-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(9), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(27), Mk'Bit-Dam%(31)
Level 6: Confuse -- CrcPrs-Conf/Rchg(A), CrcPrs-Acc/Conf/Rchg(11), CrcPrs-Acc/Rchg(11), CrcPrs-Conf/EndRdx(37), CrcPrs-Conf%(39)
Level 8: Mass Hypnosis -- CaloftheS-Acc/Rchg(A), CaloftheS-EndRdx/Sleep(13), CaloftheS-Acc/EndRdx(13), CaloftheS-Sleep/Rng(39), CaloftheS-Acc/Sleep/Rchg(39), FrtHyp-Sleep/Rchg(40)
Level 10: Hover -- Flight-I(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(15), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(15), Rct-ResDam%(50)
Level 12: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(17)
Level 14: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(17)
Level 18: Total Domination -- UnbCns-Hold(A), UnbCns-Hold/Rchg(19), UnbCns-Acc/Hold/Rchg(19), UnbCns-Acc/Rchg(23), UnbCns-EndRdx/Hold(23)
Level 20: Drain Psyche -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(21), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(21), Prv-Heal/Rchg(36), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(37), Prv-Absorb%(37)
Level 22: Fly -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 24: Tough -- Ags-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Ags-ResDam/Rchg(25), Ags-EndRdx/Rchg(25), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(31), Ags-ResDam(40), Ags-Psi/Status(40)
Level 26: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), EndRdx-I(27), EndRdx-I(36)
Level 28: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(29), HO:Cyto(29), HO:Cyto(31)
Level 30: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 32: Mass Confusion -- SprAscoft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear(A), SprAscoft-Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/Rchg(33), SprAscoft-EndRdx/Rchg(33), SprAscoft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(33), SprAscoft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx/Rchg(34), SprAscoft-Rchg/+Dmg%(34)
Level 35: Charged Armor -- HO:Ribo(A), HO:Ribo(42), HO:Ribo(45), StdPrt-ResDam/EndRdx(45), GldArm-3defTpProc(50), ImpArm-ResPsi(50)
Level 38: Psychic Shockwave -- Arm-Dmg/Rchg(A), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Arm-Acc/Rchg(43), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(43), Arm-Dam%(43), AbsAmz-ToHitDeb%(45)
Level 41: Surge of Power -- UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(A)
Level 44: Psionic Lance -- StnoftheM-Acc/Dmg(A), StnoftheM-Dmg/EndRdx(46), StnoftheM-Acc/ActRdx/Rng(46), StnoftheM-Dmg/ActRdx/Rchg(46), StnoftheM-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(48), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 47: Group Fly -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(48)
Level 49: Levitate -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Domination 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Flight-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 50: Ageless Radial Epiphany 
Level 50: Ion Core Final Judgement 
Level 50: Reactive Radial Flawless Interface 
Level 50: Assault Radial Embodiment 
Level 50: Polar Lights Core Superior Ally 
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon 
------------

 

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[Mezmera]

Couple questions for you to get the most out of your build.  Do you really need Levitate and Mass Hypnosis, your control is already going to be good enough.  Since you're going Mu why not take the pet?  It's a pocket healer and the main reason to go with Mu, slot that with 3 pet purples with the recharge and then 2 Heal IOs and a Recharge IO.  Also, snipes hit for real nice damage on doms especially if your tohitt is built up.  I'd take Tactics and 6 slot Gaussians. 

 

Lastly just a suggestion but the Force of Will pool would fit quite nice with your build instead of the flight pool.  The debuff is nice especially with the achilles heel proc, real noticeable damage increase on those tougher targets.  You'll get a travel in Mighty Leap.  And Unleash Potential is quite a nice buff which you can slot a Gambler into.  Looks like you'll have massive resists already so the defense buff from this power would do well for you.  

[ssbmario]

Hey, was asked to pop in and give answers:

Relentless Desire is "FUNCTIONAL" RP character. That means I built her around a concept BUT I don't go out of my way to nerf the character by taking or not taking something I don't use or that I WON'T like such as the F*ING-UGLY-PSI-ARMOR-OMG-KILL-THE-CIRCLES-IN-THE-FACE-THEY-GIVE-ME-MINDACHES!

 

Pet: Wasn't aware the Pet healed. Don't care still. Des would NEVER cooperate with the Mu. Officially she's not a tremendous fan of Arachnos but she works with them to further her goals. She has NO friends within the spider-boys

 

I thought Levitate would be self explanatory: It's only slotted IO is the force feedback chance for +rechrg. It's there if I get hit by a slow and want to make sure I keep perma dom going.

 

Prestige Sprints: There is a sprint with stealth IO in it but other than that nothing else.

 

Snipe/Tactics question: I've had tactics before but in the end I couldn't get the slots FOR tactics nor did I want another toggle in the build. I do very solid dmg with while solo already, especially with judgement, and if I REALLY need more dmg I can pop reds and yellows to boost snipe. RP: Tactics enabled Des to actually "see" the invisible people through her telepathy

 

Mass Hypno is in line with the RP and was originally my AoE control power, I didn't ever have the AoE Hold's until just this build. It was ALSO the only way to ensure a success on the MoLRSF. With everyone and their kid sister incarnated out the rear AND these new OP (and insanely easy to get) IO's  MoLRSF badge is hardly worth the effort to get since everyone HAS it already. At least that wants it. Also, if exemp'd down to 20 for Cap Trial sleep rechrgs and leaves no trace of aggro behind allowing stealth Des to get the 5 glowie clicks to summon Bat'Zul if our stalkers are not up to the challenge.

 

Mu line: Mu Armor is best energy armor because you can get it with only 1 power choice instead of the hero side where you have to WASTE a power on garbage to buy armor. Energy dmg is VERY prevalent in end game content still with MSR's and BAFs and KEYES. And Psi armor is F*ing ugly. I just... I tried it, okay? I even tried it AFTER Homecoming brought us back... It's too F*ing "woob woob woob woob" circle-lating noise sounding in my head. *hangs head and cries* Stupid circles.

 

Force of Will Pool: I hadn't included it because it didn't exist until last week? This week? I've looked at possibly re-tooling her with FoW in the build, we'll see. Taking that jump? Not a chance in hell. Des is a TK flier, not a jumper. My "Perma Dom while afk" build has been theory crafted (just a few hours ago as I'm a graveyard worker) and runs with FoW but not the current regular build with solid DEF and RES numbers. I am not sure I want to swap into a whole new build (I would get more AoE by taking terrify though) which might grant more dmg and control but nerf my defenses. I'm thinking it over. A 200% active rechrg though with bursts to 250 (according to Pines, but in game I don't see the +rechrg component to Unleashed Potential) IS a really nasty offense. It sucks for defense though and those end-game final trials are going to take some serious defense... underground ... *sigh*.

[Mezmera]

Ah well the Mu pet is an outsider too.  Plus he's not really friendly either he leaves you high and dry after 4 minutes and when he heals you he's not happy about doing it usually scowling as he does, sometimes he'll even wait until you beg him for it.  It's more like an old buddy cop movie where you'll tolerate each other until you get the job done then go your separate ways after.  

 

Unleash Potential doesn't add to your damage.  It gives you 18%-ish defense to all, good recovery and regen bonus for a minute.  

 

I get that your RP'ing so yeah fly fly.  But I'd find a way to work in tactics into my RP adventures if I were you.  For someone whose secondary is Psi I'd think they'd be a little less harsh on their Epic pool cousin but yeah I agree it's fugly.  

[Vanden]

Mesmerize is gonna be useless if you take an Interface that adds damage, which your build has. The DoT will wake up your targets. Controllers might not care, since they use Mesmerize for damage, but Dominators get actual attacks, so there's no real reason to take it if your Interface is going to make the sleep useless. Why not grab Ball Lightning instead? It looks like you're not a fan of cones, and it'll help make up for the AoE damage potential you're losing out on by skipping Psychic Scream and Terrify.

Edited October 15, 2019 by Vanden

[The_Cheeseman]

Frankly, skipping Terrify is a mistake. Terrify is one of the best powers in Mind Control, and skipping it significantly weakens the set. Slot it with 5x Positron's Blast (including proc), the Overwhelming Force KD proc, and use it as a massive AoE attack with strong soft control. It will quickly become your favorite button to press.

[Mezmera]

Skipping Mass Confusion would be the mistake.  Having Total Domination over Terrify is a variation of a very viable build, 2 rotating hard aoe controls is just about right.  Not saying Terrify is a terrible power you'll want to have either that or the aoe hold, which I did have Terrify for a while since we've been back but 7 years absence had me question the efficiency of my builds especially due to some changes to how powers and procs work nowadays. 

 

Seeing how with all these savages running around now I can only get off Terrify once before the mob is wiped out.  So Terrify which has a minor damage cone along with the minor damage proc from positrons and the knockdown proc when those two fired maybe half the time per target in all that gave me less than moderate damage and soft control.  I hypothesized I was better off trading that for the AoE hold with the better bonuses from the purple set along with the moderate damage proc and another minor damage proc which totaled for high damage 90% per target with hard control.  The next mob I'd just use Mass Confuse with the Malaise dmg proc so I'm good on the damage side of things along with great control.  

 

You can always take Terrify, Mass Hypno or TK last as a power you'll get some use out of but maybe don't have the slotting for.  To each their own.  

Edited October 25, 2019 by Mezmera

[oedipus_tex]

Thanks for sharing your build. There are some things I agree with and other things I am less sure of. A few notes below.

 

• Surge of Power is rarely worth it on a Dominator in my experience. There are exceptions. In this case you already have maxed out Slash Lethal resists. From Surge of Power you gain just 1% to those resists. You do gain resist to other damage sources, but IMO not enough to justify the crash from this power. I can be convinced that I'm wrong if you have specific goals in mind.
• Group Fly is not a power many players use.
• Levitate in that final slot isn't doing you a lot of favors.
• Unsure about the Mu pool for Mind Control. I mean, it can work. But it seems like not the best option.

 

Here is my alternative I just threw together quickly. It is a Ranged style Dominator that specializes in racing in with Drain Psyche and then rains AoE on enemies with Terrorize/Psy Scream/Energy Torrent/Explosive Blast. The knockdown in these powers melds with the Fear in Terrorize to keep enemies permanently occupied and unable to respond, patching holes in Mind Control's long recharging hard control powers.

 

 

 

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.962
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Mutation Dominator
Primary Power Set: Mind Control
Secondary Power Set: Psionic Assault
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Primal Forces Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Levitate -- Thn-Acc/Dmg(A), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Thn-Dmg/Rchg(3), Thn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(5), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7)
Level 1: Psionic Dart -- Thn-Acc/Dmg(A), Thn-Dmg/Rchg(7), Thn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9)
Level 2: Dominate -- BslGaz-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(A), BslGaz-Rchg/Hold(9), BslGaz-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(11), BslGaz-Acc/Hold(11)
Level 4: Mind Probe -- Hct-Dmg/Rchg(A), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13), Hct-Acc/Rchg(13), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(15), Hct-Dam%(15)
Level 6: Confuse -- CrcPrs-Conf%(A), CrcPrs-Conf/EndRdx(17), CrcPrs-Acc/Rchg(17), CrcPrs-Acc/Conf/Rchg(19), CrcPrs-Conf/Rchg(19), CrcPrs-Conf(21)
Level 8: Mass Hypnosis -- FrtHyp-Plct%(A)
Level 10: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 12: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(21)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 16: Psychic Scream -- PstBls-Dam%(A), PstBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(23), PstBls-Acc/Dmg(23), PstBls-Dmg/EndRdx(25), PstBls-Dmg/Rng(25)
Level 18: Total Domination -- SprDmnGrs-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear(A), SprDmnGrs-Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/Rchg(27), SprDmnGrs-EndRdx/Rchg(27), SprDmnGrs-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(29), SprDmnGrs-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx/Rchg(29), SprDmnGrs-Rchg/Fiery Orb(31)
Level 20: Drain Psyche -- EffAdp-Acc/Rchg(A), TchoftheN-Acc/Heal(31), TchoftheN-Heal/HP/Regen/Rchg(31), NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(33)
Level 22: Tough -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 24: Weave -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), RedFrt-EndRdx(33), RedFrt-Def(33), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(34), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(34), RedFrt-EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 26: Terrify -- GlmoftheA-Dam%(A), PstBls-Dam%(36), PstBls-Acc/Dmg(36), Rgn-Dmg(36), Rgn-Knock%(37)
Level 28: Subdue -- Thn-Acc/Dmg(A), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx(37), Thn-Dmg/Rchg(37), Thn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39)
Level 30: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(45)
Level 32: Mass Confusion -- SprAscoft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear(A), SprAscoft-Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/Rchg(40), SprAscoft-EndRdx/Rchg(40), SprAscoft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(40), SprAscoft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx/Rchg(42), SprAscoft-Rchg/+Dmg%(42)
Level 35: Psionic Lance -- StnoftheM-Acc/Dmg(A), StnoftheM-Dam%(42), StnoftheM-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43), StnoftheM-Dmg/EndRdx(43), StnoftheM-Acc/ActRdx/Rng(43)
Level 38: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(46)
Level 41: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A)
Level 44: Energy Torrent -- PstBls-Dam%(A), PstBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), PstBls-Dmg/Rchg(45), PstBls-Dmg/EndRdx(46), PstBls-Dmg/Rng(46)
Level 47: Explosive Blast -- PstBls-Dam%(A), PstBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(48), PstBls-Acc/Dmg(48), PstBls-Dmg/Rchg(48), PstBls-Dmg/EndRdx(50), FrcFdb-Rechg%(50)
Level 49: Temp Invulnerability -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Domination 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(50)
------------
------------
Set Bonus Totals:

• 13% DamageBuff(Smashing)
• 13% DamageBuff(Lethal)
• 13% DamageBuff(Fire)
• 13% DamageBuff(Cold)
• 13% DamageBuff(Energy)
• 13% DamageBuff(Negative)
• 13% DamageBuff(Toxic)
• 13% DamageBuff(Psionic)
• 6% Defense(Melee)
• 6% Defense(Smashing)
• 6% Defense(Lethal)
• 6% Defense(Fire)
• 6% Defense(Cold)
• 29.75% Defense(Energy)
• 29.75% Defense(Negative)
• 6% Defense(Psionic)
• 31% Defense(Ranged)
• 6% Defense(AoE)
• 8% Enhancement(Held)
• 8% Enhancement(Stunned)
• 8.8% Enhancement(Terrorized)
• 91.25% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
• 12% Enhancement(Confused)
• 16% Enhancement(Immobilized)
• 16% Enhancement(Sleep)
• 71% Enhancement(Accuracy)
• 12% SpeedFlying
• 49.6 HP (4.88%) HitPoints
• 12% JumpHeight
• 12% SpeedJumping
• MezResist(Confused) 36.25%
• MezResist(Held) 36.25%
• MezResist(Immobilized) 36.25%
• MezResist(Sleep) 36.25%
• MezResist(Stunned) 36.25%
• MezResist(Terrorized) 36.25%
• 34% (0.57 End/sec) Recovery
• 22% (0.93 HP/sec) Regeneration
• 7.5% Resistance(Smashing)
• 7.5% Resistance(Lethal)
• 14.25% Resistance(Fire)
• 14.25% Resistance(Cold)
• 12% SpeedRunning
  

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[The_Cheeseman]

On 10/25/2019 at 6:23 PM, Mezmera said:

Skipping Mass Confusion would be the mistake.  Having Total Domination over Terrify is a variation of a very viable build, 2 rotating hard aoe controls is just about right.  Not saying Terrify is a terrible power you'll want to have either that or the aoe hold, which I did have Terrify for a while since we've been back but 7 years absence had me question the efficiency of my builds especially due to some changes to how powers and procs work nowadays. 

 

Seeing how with all these savages running around now I can only get off Terrify once before the mob is wiped out.  So Terrify which has a minor damage cone along with the minor damage proc from positrons and the knockdown proc when those two fired maybe half the time per target in all that gave me less than moderate damage and soft control.  I hypothesized I was better off trading that for the AoE hold with the better bonuses from the purple set along with the moderate damage proc and another minor damage proc which totaled for high damage 90% per target with hard control.  The next mob I'd just use Mass Confuse with the Malaise dmg proc so I'm good on the damage side of things along with great control.  

 

You can always take Terrify, Mass Hypno or TK last as a power you'll get some use out of but maybe don't have the slotting for.  To each their own.  

Nobody mentioned skipping Mass Confusion, but yes, that would be a mistake, as well.

Total Domination and Terrify aren't exactly comparable powers. Total Domination is an AoE hard control on a very long cooldown, making it--alongside other control sets' AoE holds--pretty underwhelming. Many people choose to skip AoE holds in favor of more impactful powers, though I like having it around because it's mind control's only form of immobilize (to keep stuff in my damage patches). Terrify is a moderate cooldown attack/soft control hybrid power. What makes Terrify so good is that it is up often enough to be used every spawn, possibly multiple times per spawn, it does decent damage, has sufficient control for most spawns in steamroll teams, and its area of effect is comically huge, allowing it to be used with little need for repositioning or targeting. In short, it's an awesome, reliable power you can use at-will.

Slotting a damage proc into Total Domination is a waste of a slot. Total Domination isn't a good enough power to be worth using on cooldown (I rarely use it at all, to be honest), and thus its damage is negligible. We're dominators, not controllers. We have an entire secondary devoted to damage powers, we don't need to waste slots adding procs to our hard control powers.

The same can be said of damage procs in Mass Confusion, but even worse, because adding a damage proc ruins the non-aggro feature of the power--one of its most attractive attributes. Plus, to be frank, 95% of any spawn hit by Mass Confusion is going to be dead before it wears off, even if you go AFK to make a sammich. A damage proc is pointless when the MOBs are all murdering each other, anyway.

TL;DR: slotting damage procs in AoE controls with 4min base recharges is a pointless waste of slots--the DPS increase will be negligible. What makes Terrify so good is that you can use it constantly and it hits just about every MOB in the same zip code, making it reliable damage and generally as much control as you really need.

[Mezmera]

First off the purple bonuses you can get from the AoE hold set up to 5 for the recharge is the goal here you don't HAVE to add another proc but procs are sure fires in these long recharging mezzes.  Lets say the moderate dmg proc hits for 100 points and the minor one for 50 points.  On 16 targets that's 2400 points of damage, even at 90% chance of firing that's 2160 damage in 1.33 seconds, yes "pointless".  How many fireballs you gotta trow to get that damage?  Nowhere near as many as you'll need to get that kinda damage in 1.33 seconds.  The procs in these long charging AoE mezzes are meant to supplement your dps and give you very hard control along with great bonuses but to say the damage isn't clearly good is plain stupid.  

 

I do give the cone and that it's available every mob for Terrify a nod but with the recharge you should have, Total Domination will be recharged just fine for almost every mob and you'll have Mass Confusion if not.  Everything else you get from Total Domination is better, from the hard control, to the damage capabilities and purple bonuses.  

 

With the defense bonuses I get from these sets I could gave a s**t about attracting aggro, these targets will be controlled and dead long before I'll need worry about them being mad at me.  My dom can tank with the best of them and that's with throwing out Energy Transfers every few attacks.  Some people like to sit back and spam fireballs and some like to cozy right on up to the strongest enemies and give them fistfuls of dps.  Thank goodness I go along with my own logic that doesn't tie me to gimpy outdated thinking.  

 

Point being, for anyone that doesn't consider themselves already all knowing, no thing is set in stone, don't take every word as gospel, pick and choose what works for you, amazing fun can be had on a well built dom.  

Edited October 29, 2019 by Mezmera

[Machariel]

I really don't understand why some people respond to build advice with "of course I can't do that, it doesn't fit my concept!" - well how in blazes was anyone else supposed to know?  It's perfectly reasonable to say "nah, that doesn't fit my concept" (it's the only reason I don't take the Fly Trap pet on my Plant/Fire) but it's crazy to be indignant about it.

 

2 hours ago, Mezmera said:

On 16 targets that's 2400 points of damage, even at 90% chance of firing that's 2160 damage in 1.33 seconds, yes "pointless".  How many fireballs you gotta trow to get that damage? 

I was curious about this and went into Mids to investigate and my answer is: one to two Fireballs, depending on slotting, build up effects, incarnate powers, etc, and allowing Fireball to also, of course, hit 16 targets.  You can slot 4 damage procs into a power that has only a hold component (discounting the fiery orb ATO which may be super good, I dunno).  Those 4 damage procs (3 regular, 1 purple) will do 290 damage on average.  My current fireball slotting does about 150 damage without embrace of fire (slotted with ragnarok and the annihilation proc, which I should probably change).  With embrace of fire, a posi's blast set, and a javelin volley proc Mids says 310 (and I think I'll be respeccing into that now that I've looked at the numbers).  So it's about even, depending on slotting. 

 

The AoE hold does have the advantage of being a larger radius and therefore easier to get to the target cap as well as the fact that it, you know, comes stapled to a 20-something second mag 6 hold.

Honestly, with how much recharge Dominators are building for anyway, it's definitely a niche idea but not as bad as I thought it would be.  A number of people find mass holds to be very skippable powers.  I think they're worth taking as "oh-fudge" buttons that also happen to take very good set bonuses (Basilisk's Gaze!) even though I rarely use mine.  So in my case, stuffing it with damage procs would be something I might consider.  A guaranteed big damage AoE plus a high magnitude, short duration hold sort of feels like a Dominator nuke to me.

 

I'm obviously assuming that Fireball has the same target cap as the AoE hold.  If it has a smaller target cap than the hold then obviously I'd be even more sympathetic to this idea.  But either way, as a source of sustained AoE, the fireball is going to come out way ahead as the fireball recharges in ~8 to ~10 seconds and the AoE hold recharges in ~65+. (ED capped for recharge and with 177.5% from other sources I got it down to a little under 64 seconds)

[The_Cheeseman]

Unbreakable Constraint isn’t that great a set, honestly. If your reason for slotting Total Domination is to chase global recharge bonuses, why spend 5 slots for 10% when you can get 7.5% from only 4 slots of Basilisk’s Gaze?

 

The main point I am trying to convey is that the opportunity cost of slots is very high. Obviously, slotting damage procs will increase the damage of a power, but those slots will very likely contribute more damage in a different power, to say nothing of the myriad ways they could be exploited to boost other areas of performance.

 

Finally, being tanky doesn’t really justify undermining one of the key features of mind control’s capstone power with a negligible damage proc. The value of Mass Confusion’s lack of aggro isn’t just avoiding taking hits in combat, it’s the ability to wipe out entire spawns without ever having to drop out of stealth. Certainly you can imagine the tactical advantages of being able to make a spawn self-destruct without even having to put yourself in danger.

 

Everyone is entitled to build their characters as they see fit, but they should do so knowing what sacrifices their choices necessitate. I’m not telling anyone how to play their Dom, but in a thread with the purpose of advising players on mechanical optimization, I think it’s important to point out the most objectively effective and efficient choices and to explain the consequences of less optimal ones.

Edited October 29, 2019 by The_Cheeseman

[Mezmera]

If I need to be stealthy I can just pause and use my ST confuse on a boss in the next mob before I dive in, my single target confuse is for the tactical situations like you want to box us into.  Or again I can use Mass Confuse even with the Malaise damage proc that group will be dead at 4x8 solo before they notice me thus still keeping you stealthy for the next mob. 

 

Purple sets have the best bonuses so I don't get where you can say Unbreakable Constraint slotted to 5 with the sure fire moderate damage proc on 16 targets isn't better than anything you'll get out of a 6 slotted terrify and you still have a bonus slot for another damage proc should you want to use it.  You'll only get one Terrify off per mob before your team should have steam rolled it so the point of it being better because it recharges faster is moot. 

 

As for the actual AoE fireball from the epics I'm assuming vs the AoE hold I'm gonna go with the hold.  If fireball has a base recharge of 30 seconds and the positron's proc fires 3.5 times per minute it'll take you 2 fireballs to get 3 bonus minor damages to fire.  Proc's in fireball are meaningless so what you can get out of slotting damage enhancement is the best you'll get. Fireballs AoE is much smaller and yeah max targets is 10 I believe. Like you say you can turn the AoE hold into a mini nuke should you like with the bonus affect of locking enemies down.  The capabilities of what you can do with the long charging hold I much prefer.  

 

 

Edited October 29, 2019 by Mezmera

[Machariel]

Actually if you slot it with positrons blast and leave out the damage/recharge IO you get a 90% (that is, capped) proc chance from 2 damage procs, each of which deals nearly half the damage of the ED-capped power itself.  Positrons blast has very low set enhancements for recharge as the damage/recharge IO is the only one in the set with a Rech component.  So if you are getting all of your recharge from set bonuses and hasten and can live with fireball recharging in 10 seconds as opposed to 8 I think it’s a pretty good place for damage procs.  I absolutely would not say that procs are meaningless in the power.

[Mezmera]

I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding how procs per minute work in relation to faster charging AoE's like fireball.  The Positron proc will have a 90% chance of firing at least once yes but that's all, it doesn't mean it'll fire on 9 out of 10 targets.  But hey I may be wrong, load up a fireball on a group of baddies and screen shot it so we can count how many ticks of minor damage we see.   

Edited October 29, 2019 by Mezmera

[The_Cheeseman]

4 hours ago, Mezmera said:

If I need to be stealthy I can just pause and use my ST confuse on a boss in the next mob before I dive in, my single target confuse is for the tactical situations like you want to box us into.  Or again I can use Mass Confuse even with the Malaise damage proc that group will be dead at 4x8 solo before they notice me thus still keeping you stealthy for the next mob. 

 

Purple sets have the best bonuses so I don't get where you can say Unbreakable Constraint slotted to 5 with the sure fire moderate damage proc on 16 targets isn't better than anything you'll get out of a 6 slotted terrify and you still have a bonus slot for another damage proc should you want to use it.  You'll only get one Terrify off per mob before your team should have steam rolled it so the point of it being better because it recharges faster is moot. 

 

As for the actual AoE fireball from the epics I'm assuming vs the AoE hold I'm gonna go with the hold.  If fireball has a base recharge of 30 seconds and the positron's proc fires 3.5 times per minute it'll take you 2 fireballs to get 3 bonus minor damages to fire.  Proc's in fireball are meaningless so what you can get out of slotting damage enhancement is the best you'll get. Fireballs AoE is much smaller and yeah max targets is 10 I believe. Like you say you can turn the AoE hold into a mini nuke should you like with the bonus affect of locking enemies down.  The capabilities of what you can do with the long charging hold I much prefer.  

 

 

I fail to follow your logic that my advice to not do something that limits a power's tactical deployment options is somehow "boxing us in". In fact, I'd argue that you are the one failing to think outside the box, here. Suffice it to say, your argument makes it seem like you have no practical experience using Mass Confusion in situations like TF soloing or similar challenges where this feature is most valuable. The stealth aspect is valuable because it allows you to clear trash around AVs or other major bosses before you have to engage said boss. Remaining in stealth also helps when spawns are tightly packed, and engaging one is likely to end up chain-aggroing more MOBs than you want to deal with.

Your justifications appear to assume that every fight takes place with a well-built team that has trivialized the content. In such cases, it really doesn't matter how you slot your powers, I guess. But that strikes me a pretty poor test case for a build. You can get away with sub-optimal slotting if you never challenge yourself, but I don't think it's a good idea to suggest such slotting to players who are trying to maximize their builds.

"Purple sets have the best bonuses" is not what I would consider a nuanced view on build optimization. It's true that purples have the greatest enhancement values, but as previously mentioned, Total Domination isn't exactly a great power, nor one that I would suggest relying upon heavily, and even with ED-capped values, it's not going to get much better. As such, the the main draw of slotting it is for set bonuses--most importantly, global recharge. Holds have access to Basilisk's Gaze, which is one of the most efficient global recharge options for slot efficiency. Wasting that niche to use a mediocre purple set just for 2.5% extra global recharge is ill-advised. There are plenty of better options for getting your 5x Ultimate Recharge Bonuses, should that be your priority.

Directly comparing Fireball and Total Domination seems rather silly to me, as the powers are used totally differently, but if that is what you really want to do, I don't think most people would choose Total Domination. Fireball is one of the most effective AoE attack powers in the game--good damage, fast activation, decent recharge (even for an ancillary pool power). Calling Fireball inferior because it doesn't leverage damage procs as effectively is missing the fact that Fireball does FAR more DPS/DPA with its own values.

Honestly, I think you're over-valuing damage procs, in general. Proc damage can be a major boost to ATs with low damage scales, but Dominators are not one of those. Our 0.95 ranged damage scale is actually pretty high, only losing to Novas, Blasters, and VEATs, so we get comparatively less benefit from damage procs compared to, say Controllers with their 0.55. In short, you have to seriously consider whether adding damage procs to a power will be worth the trade-off of possibly getting another valuable set bonus or enhancing the base values of that, or another, power.

Edited October 29, 2019 by The_Cheeseman

[oedipus_tex]

It's been years since I played a Mind Controller but as I recall the main purpose of Total Domination was setting Containment. The only other available method of AoE Containment is Mass Hypnosis.

[The_Cheeseman]

1 minute ago, oedipus_tex said:

It's been years since I played a Mind Controller but as I recall the main purpose of Total Domination was setting Containment. The only other available method of AoE Containment is Mass Hypnosis.

Makes sense, yeah. I never really considered having to set Containment, since I have never played Mind Control on a Controller. This is just another example of how Mind Control is far superior on a Dominator.

[oedipus_tex]

2 minutes ago, The_Cheeseman said:

Makes sense, yeah. I never really considered having to set Containment, since I have never played Mind Control on a Controller. This is just another example of how Mind Control is far superior on a Dominator.

 

Yep Mind gets kind of messed over by Containment, which is sad, because it was intended to be one of the blast-ier sets. A possible solution mentioned in the past is to give Mind a mechanic like Gravity's Impact mechanic, that would apply to Confuse/Fear.

[Mezmera]

You don't read very well or at least choose to add meaning to what you will.  I mean how can you misinterpret what I'm saying here: 

 

"If I need to be stealthy I can just pause and use my ST confuse on a boss in the next mob before I dive in, my single target confuse is for the tactical situations like you want to box us into.  Or again I can use Mass Confuse even with the Malaise damage proc that group will be dead at 4x8 solo before they notice me thus still keeping you stealthy for the next mob. "

 

My assumption is not based on whether my team is good or not, hopefully I choose a competent team.  My dom is built with the assumption I'll need to be the tank, dps, debuff and control all in one on any team I find myself on.  

 

The fireball bit was speaking in context to another user, nothing to do with you.  I was more making fun of /fire dom tryhards and their fire blasts, not realizing I was referencing the fire ball epic power.  So that's how that all got started.  

 

I'm doing quite better with Total Domination slotted with Constraint with the bonus damage proc than having Terrify as I had it.  You do come off as contradictory, on one hand you're all about dps and saying your controls need to be controlling but when pointing out the AoE hold is a much better control with the added benefit of more damage than the power I'm replacing all of a sudden I'm supposed to be only slotting my "attacks" with damaging abilities.  

 

Tell you what load up your Mind/Fire onto Excelsior and lets meet up for some DA missions or duo a TF so we can see if you can out damage, out survive and out control my Mind/Dark.  

[Machariel]

1 hour ago, Mezmera said:

I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding how procs per minute work in relation to faster charging AoE's like fireball.  The Positron proc will have a 90% chance of firing at least once yes but that's all, it doesn't mean it'll fire on 9 out of 10 targets.  But hey I may be wrong, load up a fireball on a group of baddies and screen shot it so we can count how many ticks of minor damage we see.   

vov I'll check it out, I just figure that if Mids says 90% chance of a proc on Fireball and a 90% chance of proc on Total Domination or Vines or whatever there's no reason to think that the 90% means "2160 damage on 1.33 seconds" (Total Domination is a 2.03 sec cast time BTW) but that 2 damage procs in Fireball, that also have a 90% chance, don't also mean "an extra ~150 damage per target on average".  The proc chance would have to be very low for a 90% chance of firing off, at ANY target, at least once, to not be a statistical near-certainty given a lot of targets.

 

I don't see the justification to start off your post by saying "You don't read very well" and I think you should turn down the defensiveness a fair notch.

[Mezmera]

13 minutes ago, Machariel said:

vov I'll check it out, I just figure that if Mids says 90% chance of a proc on Fireball and a 90% chance of proc on Total Domination or Vines or whatever there's no reason to think that the 90% means "2160 damage on 1.33 seconds" (Total Domination is a 2.03 sec cast time BTW) but that 2 damage procs in Fireball, that also have a 90% chance, don't also mean "an extra ~150 damage per target on average".  The proc chance would have to be very low for a 90% chance of firing off, at ANY target, at least once, to not be a statistical near-certainty given a lot of targets.

 

I don't see the justification to start off your post by saying "You don't read very well" and I think you should turn down the defensiveness a fair notch.

Cool yeah I'm pretty sure you're misinterpreting how good a proc will fire in an AoE.  Lets say for calculations the AoE hold has a base recharge of 4 minutes.  The purple hold proc has a chance of firing 4 times in a minute so that's 4 x 4 for 16  chances of firing when you fire that power.  It just so happens the hold has a max target of 16 so it should fire on everyone in the area but it'll compensate for the 90% chance rule.  On a fast recharging AoE the calculations will be much lower odds so the proc shouldn't fire on but maybe two targets so yeah odds are it'll fire just the same as in the hold but on much lower quantity of targets.  

 

The other bit was for Cheeseman who felt the need to go in on me.  

Edited October 29, 2019 by Mezmera

[Machariel]

10 minutes ago, Mezmera said:

Cool yeah I'm pretty sure you're misinterpreting how good a proc will fire in an AoE.  Lets say for calculations the AoE hold has a base recharge of 4 minutes.  The purple hold proc has a chance of firing 4 times in a minute so that's 4 x 4 for 16  chances of firing when you fire that power.  It just so happens the hold has a max target of 16 so it should fire on everyone in the area but it'll compensate for the 90% chance rule.  On a fast recharging AoE the calculations will be much lower odds so the proc shouldn't fire on but maybe two targets so yeah odds are it'll fire just the same as in the hold but on much lower quantity of targets.  

 

The other bit was for Cheeseman who felt the need to go in on me.  

https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Procs_Per_Minute

 

EDIT: I'm currently testing damage procs in both vines and fireball right now.  Watch this space!

Edited October 29, 2019 by Machariel

[Mezmera]

13 minutes ago, Machariel said:

https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Procs_Per_Minute

 

EDIT: I'm currently testing damage procs in both vines and fireball right now.  Watch this space!

Pretty sure I got a good handle on how procs were changed to reflect the ppm rules.  There's a good deal extra math in that AoE calculation but as I see it on the link it's showing just how I thought as procs for cones and AoE's fire in much less regularity per target in the area highly dependent on the base recharge of the AoE power.  

 

In addition, when this change comes, all enhancement procs will utilize PPM, not just attuned enhancements.

 

For instance, if an enhancement has a 5PPM rate, then 60/5=12 seconds; a power with a base recharge + activation time of 12 seconds will guarantee a proc every time it executes, even if the power's final recharge is less.

 

Edited October 29, 2019 by Mezmera

[Machariel]

So... PPM definitely does NOT mean that "it has a chance of firing 4 times in a minute so if you use it on a power that takes 4 minutes to recharge it will proc 16 times, QED." This is emphatically not how procs work in this game.

 

The PPM value means, basically, "If you used this power on cooldown, and only factored in the base recharge, enhancement value slotting, and animation time, how often would you see it go off?" 

Under these conditions, and in a single target power, 3 PPM means just what it says and you'll see it about 3 times a minute.

In a power that affects multiple targets the area factor comes into consideration to reduce the proc chance per target, but overall you should see it MUCH MORE than the 3 times per minute - but maybe you'll shoot the power at 16 duders and only see it proc 3 times.  This definitely does not mean that you won't see it proc again for the next 58 seconds because you already hit the "3 procs per minute".

 

You are correct that, due to the area factor, the proc chance, per target, is lower in an AoE attack than in a single target attack. 

However, it is still very possible for that proc chance, even after being reduced by the area factor, to be over 90%. 

This is very easy to do in Vines or other AoE holds because their recharges are incredibly long.  In fact, as I mentioned in my post above, you can shove enough recharge in these powers to be ED capped for recharge and still have a 90% (maximum) proc rate.

The base recharge of Fireball is high enough that procs slotted into it can ALSO have a 90% proc chance.  But, because its cooldown is so much shorter, this proc chance plummets dramatically as you start to slot recharge into it (from 90% down to 35% to 40%). 

 

Ordinarily you would want to slot recharge into Fireball because it is an incredibly good attack and it would be insane to use it only once every 32 seconds (it's base recharge).  But if you're a pimped out Permadom who sits at 175%+ global recharge 100% of the time, slotting recharge into fireball takes it from about 11.5 seconds to 8.5 seconds - so you save three seconds but cut the proc chance by almost 2/3rds.

 

Before typing this I took my main into a Battle Maiden map and threw out a Vines at a spawn.  As expected, I got the single damage proc to go off on basically (it may have been literally) all of them - not unlikely with a 90% proc chance.

Then I threw a Fireball at the same spawn and was pleased to see the Positron's Blast damage proc ALSO go off on every target (as well as the Annihilation Proc, but less often! Yay!)

 

tl;dr I'm not sure what your math is but the 90% proc chance, per target, predicted both by Mids and by a basic bit of algebra that you can verify for yourself, seems to be correct and there's no fundamental difference between 90% in an AoE hold and 90% in a Fireball.

Edited October 29, 2019 by Machariel