Problem for stone armor brutes

[HornyBeast]

I've just exemped down to do a synapse TF (although this would apply when levelling). I picked up crystal armor at the lowest level I could (28) so of course it exemps off.  Is it really intended for a brute to go through an entire TF with no mitigation at all (OK I had weave and a bit of +regen) to the vast percentage of damage in the TF ?

I haven't done the equivalent level SF recently enough to remember if that has more fire damage than energy so that you might not want to just swap brimstone/crystal armors, but surely something could be done (possibly swap crystal/stone skin or a 3 way shuffle).

[Razor Cure]

Basically..the set is a load of shit, besides one OP power that also comes with huge drawbacks.

[Outrider_01]

Everyone suffers the effect of being expemed down. You only lost energy and negative defense, it means that the TF was not ideal for a brute since its loaded with energy based attacks fron the clockwork.  TF was created long before Villians and  brutes where created.  Any defender/controller/MM/corrupter with bubbles, dark, storm set could of plugged those holes.

 

And set isn't  trash, might not be ideal for brutes but a couple of buffs from support sets make them unstoppable.

 

 

[Lost Ninja]

16 hours ago, Outrider_01 said:

And set isn't  trash, might not be ideal for brutes but a couple of buffs from support sets make them unstoppable.

Which can be said for any under performing set ever.

 

((Not saying Stone specifically is or isn't, but if a set needs a pocket buffer to function it's not great.))

[Haijinx]

No buffer can allow Granite to jump over a curb. 

[Haijinx]

Stone needs a lot of work.  And yes, it will never exemplar down well, not even for Tankers.

 

 

[Lost Ninja]

2 hours ago, Haijinx said:

No buffer can allow Granite to jump over a curb. 

Well not 1 for sure. Fairly sure on live there were at least a few attempts for many kinetics based characters to use Inertial Reduction en-mass to get past the -Jump

[Hyperstrike]

2 hours ago, Haijinx said:

No buffer can allow Granite to jump over a curb. 

Actually a zone full of kins conceivably can allow a Stoner to do EXACTLY that.

[Outrider_01]

10 hours ago, Lost Ninja said:

Which can be said for any under performing set ever.

 

((Not saying Stone specifically is or isn't, but if a set needs a pocket buffer to function it's not great.))

Right, right.  I forgot, games have become MMSORPG, S stand for Solo.  I forgot that since 15.5 years old that

 

-there is no way CoH could of been designed and released around April 4 2004 under the term MMO meaning more then 1 person

 

-Villians squeeks by at 14 years, 1 month at Oct 5 2005, 1.5 years before brute.

 

-tanks adapted to turning stone armor to turn it off when they needed to. Sure the developer didn't mean for a massive rock to be like the rolling boulder from the Indiana Jones movie.  Kinetic tended to solved that issue with a click instead of 50 enhancement slots

 

-IOs didn't exist for a while, turning players into solo wrecking machines. 

 

-Long, long, a time ago the term squishy actually meant something...not sure must of been something something dark side of the force muliplier that a support set can be.  

 

-tank classes took it on the jaw, damage classes beat things down. One protects, other supports the protector.   Parasite mutual relationship. 

 

-players didn't need to soft cap or max defense.  Bubbles turned blasters into decent pseudo super reflex sentinels before the AT existed. 

 

-players wanted a challenge,  simple misunderstanding lead to easy mode solo content on max hard setting so its NOT a challenge any more.    

 

-The need to run all toggles all the time plus dipping into fighting the fighting pool. Was a time nobody took fighting and toggles turned off when you logged.

 

-Clicks that don't run 24/7/366 days a year like other tank/brute 32/38 powers, lets exclude server downtime.

 

-Smart players learned to turn Granite off when they need to.  OP much?  See above about final last power in defense sets comment.

 

My bad, thought humans wanted social interaction and assistance to feel like a god to face a challenge.  I hear Windows still comes with Minefield and Solitaire for the that feeling if you don't download Candy Crush on your phone.

 

Total misconception on my part.  Didn't think people want easy mode and have to ask game developers to dumb down games now. Wonder why all these power sets exist that are different instead of being the same, why can't we be level 50 with max powers, same set, and IOs rail road spiking Contaminated into the ground solo?  That would be a challenge!

 

tl;dr - Sarcasm not directed at anyone. Forgot OP complained about Crystal Armor, people complaining about Granite threw me off and a dumb comment about "no AT should rely on another"  (regardless if its a buffer or something else) when its obvious that toggles have defense holes for a reason until higher levels.  Any set or AT gains a massive force multipler when paired with another, Stone actually has an advantage over click powers without a crash at 32/38 since Granite is a toggle ( unless it changed, haven't looked at all of the sets); it also had disadvantages such as the problems with granite.

 

As for their TF the OP mentioned, all classes have problems and further compounded by exemplar, try playing a blaster without IO and that mez hole.  Defender buffs fix it, just as much as a Stone Armor brute.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Outrider_01

[Razor Cure]

2 hours ago, Outrider_01 said:

As for their TF the OP mentioned, all classes have problems and further compounded by exemplar, try playing a blaster without IO and that mez hole.  Defender buffs fix it, just as much as a Stone Armor brute.

Yeah they do..but StoneArmour has about the worst Ex'd performance..especially if you HAVE granite, then respec'd out of all the shitty powers in teh set, that granite makes worthless.

As for playing a blaster with IOs (and the mez gap, which STILL exists for blasters at 50+, unless they get clarion.)..you mean like..well..basically every single blaster that got to level 30 (cause they wont have that many IOs at that point).

 

6 hours ago, Hyperstrike said:

Actually a zone full of kins conceivably can allow a Stoner to do EXACTLY that

Yay, you only need to be on a league with 47 kins to jump!

Actually, Granite on a tank (actually Rooter, granite doesnt show a -jhump) is -50,000% jump..IR on a kin fender is +2780% jump. So about 18 kins. All with IR. Good luck. lol.

 

[Hyperstrike]

13 minutes ago, Razor Cure said:

Yeah they do..but StoneArmour has about the worst Ex'd performance..especially if you HAVE granite, then respec'd out of all the shitty powers in teh set, that granite makes worthless.

As for playing a blaster with IOs (and the mez gap, which STILL exists for blasters at 50+, unless they get clarion.)..you mean like..well..basically every single blaster that got to level 30 (cause they wont have that many IOs at that point).

 

Yay, you only need to be on a league with 47 kins to jump!

Actually, Granite on a tank (actually Rooter, granite doesnt show a -jhump) is -50,000% jump..IR on a kin fender is +2780% jump. So about 18 kins. All with IR. Good luck. lol.

 

I'd maintain two builds.

Granite for lightly exemplared/endgame play.
Everything BUT for heavily exemplared play.

[Hyperstrike]

16 minutes ago, Razor Cure said:

Yeah they do..but StoneArmour has about the worst Ex'd performance..especially if you HAVE granite, then respec'd out of all the shitty powers in teh set, that granite makes worthless.

As for playing a blaster with IOs (and the mez gap, which STILL exists for blasters at 50+, unless they get clarion.)..you mean like..well..basically every single blaster that got to level 30 (cause they wont have that many IOs at that point).

 

Yay, you only need to be on a league with 47 kins to jump!

Actually, Granite on a tank (actually Rooter, granite doesnt show a -jhump) is -50,000% jump..IR on a kin fender is +2780% jump. So about 18 kins. All with IR. Good luck. lol.

 

Actually, 3 slotted with Common Jump IOs, it's 5534.4% (10 kins)
With 6 Common Jump IOs, it's 6064.8% (9 kins).

 

[Lost Ninja]

7 hours ago, Outrider_01 said:

Right, right.  I forgot, games have become MMSORPG, S stand for Solo.  I forgot that since 15.5 years old that

 

-there is no way CoH could of been designed and released around April 4 2004 under the term MMO meaning more then 1 person

 

-Villians squeeks by at 14 years, 1 month at Oct 5 2005, 1.5 years before brute.

 

-tanks adapted to turning stone armor to turn it off when they needed to. Sure the developer didn't mean for a massive rock to be like the rolling boulder from the Indiana Jones movie.  Kinetic tended to solved that issue with a click instead of 50 enhancement slots

 

-IOs didn't exist for a while, turning players into solo wrecking machines. 

 

-Long, long, a time ago the term squishy actually meant something...not sure must of been something something dark side of the force muliplier that a support set can be.  

 

-tank classes took it on the jaw, damage classes beat things down. One protects, other supports the protector.   Parasite mutual relationship. 

 

-players didn't need to soft cap or max defense.  Bubbles turned blasters into decent pseudo super reflex sentinels before the AT existed. 

 

-players wanted a challenge,  simple misunderstanding lead to easy mode solo content on max hard setting so its NOT a challenge any more.    

 

-The need to run all toggles all the time plus dipping into fighting the fighting pool. Was a time nobody took fighting and toggles turned off when you logged.

 

-Clicks that don't run 24/7/366 days a year like other tank/brute 32/38 powers, lets exclude server downtime.

 

-Smart players learned to turn Granite off when they need to.  OP much?  See above about final last power in defense sets comment.

 

My bad, thought humans wanted social interaction and assistance to feel like a god to face a challenge.  I hear Windows still comes with Minefield and Solitaire for the that feeling if you don't download Candy Crush on your phone.

 

Total misconception on my part.  Didn't think people want easy mode and have to ask game developers to dumb down games now. Wonder why all these power sets exist that are different instead of being the same, why can't we be level 50 with max powers, same set, and IOs rail road spiking Contaminated into the ground solo?  That would be a challenge!

 

tl;dr - Sarcasm not directed at anyone. Forgot OP complained about Crystal Armor, people complaining about Granite threw me off and a dumb comment about "no AT should rely on another"  (regardless if its a buffer or something else) when its obvious that toggles have defense holes for a reason until higher levels.  Any set or AT gains a massive force multipler when paired with another, Stone actually has an advantage over click powers without a crash at 32/38 since Granite is a toggle ( unless it changed, haven't looked at all of the sets); it also had disadvantages such as the problems with granite.

 

As for their TF the OP mentioned, all classes have problems and further compounded by exemplar, try playing a blaster without IO and that mez hole.  Defender buffs fix it, just as much as a Stone Armor brute.

Sarcasm or not way overthinking it.

 

If your only answer to an under performing set is "It's okay in teams." You completely miss the point of saying it's under performing in the first place. Worse because there is no real way of telling if you're actually viable in a team unless you're the sole "Tank" or "Healer" and you prevent the team from dying all the time. In CoH not only is the Holy Trinity not really used but most ATs have access to some sort of self heal/mitigation, so it's a bit hard to judge whether or not the team wiping or being very slow is down to your gimpyness or down to just not being a very good team.

 

Everything is good in teams, because there are 7 other people making up for your under-performing arse. You can half arse a good set with no enhancements (at all) and still perform adequately outside of end game content due to being in a team.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Lost Ninja

[HornyBeast]

For other sets, it's not unknown for them to reorder the powers when porting them to other ATs, and this was what I was suggesting for stone brutes. Note ice armor has the same problem but has glacial armor moved much earlier in its brute version.

 

My build has granite AND all the other armors at 50 so it tanks psionic AVs nicely too, in the old world I used a build without brimstone/crystal and tanked psi with rock/minerals/tough/weave/rooted and that worked fine.

It covers all bases fairly effortlessly as a brute without doing spectacular damage (although still better than many tanks), you just have to become adept at using teleport.

[Outrider_01]

7 hours ago, Lost Ninja said:

Everything is good in teams, because there are 7 other people making up for your under-performing arse. You can half arse a good set with no enhancements (at all) and still perform adequately outside of end game content due to being in a team.

7 other people are meant to make your character better even if the situation is not optimal, other wise you must have a bunch of the same class running around using nothing but inspirations while everyone is complaining its taking to long.  In your situation, even 7 other people can make a single tank do a decent half-ass job unless everyone are idiots at lower levels, higher levels with strong AV yeah I can see your point.  Everyone wearing butt helmets and licking their keyboards = terrible team when you can't all click together.

 

Let me put another way.   Asking to a developer (or who ever runs CoH now) to change something since the player can't deal with the problem sound weak, I would rather they the player better themselves, learn to figure out the problem, and use other player/AT to help them.

 

Synapse is loaded with energy damage, one TF doesn't justify changing a set just to make it easier for Stone.  The TF isn't broken, its just not an optimal situation for stone at levels sub 30.  All sets are designed the way they are, moving Crystal would be like having Instant Heal for Regen just to deal with the same TF at an earlier level or Assault Rifle getting Full Auto earlier since its 60%  lethal damage with long animation times, might as well let be a bit more better against high lethal resist npc by doing just a tiny bit more damage.  Dark Armor has no resist to Lethal/Smashing, just a tiny defense to them, should DA be given Lethal/Smashing Resist?  Lets exclude the fact its loaded with -to hit which is basically +defense when the bad guys whiff at you, just pure standard resist.  Might as have AT, one powerset, max defense/resist at level 1, high scrapper crit with brute bar attacks and just change the graphics, get rid of support sets, and call it a day.

 

Game is designed so players support each other, TF where meant to be done as a team and those team mates are supposed to plug the holes you lack at earlier levels; then the difficulty ramps up even more as you gain more powers in higher levels to make those holes even stronger after you have filled it yourself. 

 

They can change it, but I would still rather see people working together to the fix problem instead of "Oh, its broken cause exemplar is canceling one of my important powers in a sub optimal TF. Can you please fix it."  Stone doesn't get +energy resist at the level of a Synapse TF, but its last power is a toggle instead of a click at higher levels, sound balanced doesn't it?  Cause other tank sets are stronger in the beginning but the click is situational later in levels post 32/38, the Granite toggle can be used when ever post 32/38 with a much shorter recharge then "Very Long" at the cost of Energy resists for another toggle in the early levels. 

 

Anyway, I am out.  Just tired of the "its broken" people in most games I play now because players can't deal with a "situational" problem and the actual situation isn't breaking the game through a hack or just making it unplayable because of bug.  The situation is designed that way it is for a reason, Stone Armor in the end is very powerful compared to other sets but brutes have it more diffult in a Synapse TF, it just has to suffer like everyone else until its stronger.

[Haijinx]

18 hours ago, Outrider_01 said:

Right, right.  I forgot, games have become MMSORPG, S stand for Solo.  I forgot that since 15.5 years old that

 

-there is no way CoH could of been designed and released around April 4 2004 under the term MMO meaning more then 1 person

 

-Villians squeeks by at 14 years, 1 month at Oct 5 2005, 1.5 years before brute.

 

-tanks adapted to turning stone armor to turn it off when they needed to. Sure the developer didn't mean for a massive rock to be like the rolling boulder from the Indiana Jones movie.  Kinetic tended to solved that issue with a click instead of 50 enhancement slots

 

-IOs didn't exist for a while, turning players into solo wrecking machines. 

 

-Long, long, a time ago the term squishy actually meant something...not sure must of been something something dark side of the force muliplier that a support set can be.  

 

-tank classes took it on the jaw, damage classes beat things down. One protects, other supports the protector.   Parasite mutual relationship. 

 

-players didn't need to soft cap or max defense.  Bubbles turned blasters into decent pseudo super reflex sentinels before the AT existed. 

 

-players wanted a challenge,  simple misunderstanding lead to easy mode solo content on max hard setting so its NOT a challenge any more.    

 

-The need to run all toggles all the time plus dipping into fighting the fighting pool. Was a time nobody took fighting and toggles turned off when you logged.

 

-Clicks that don't run 24/7/366 days a year like other tank/brute 32/38 powers, lets exclude server downtime.

 

-Smart players learned to turn Granite off when they need to.  OP much?  See above about final last power in defense sets comment.

 

My bad, thought humans wanted social interaction and assistance to feel like a god to face a challenge.  I hear Windows still comes with Minefield and Solitaire for the that feeling if you don't download Candy Crush on your phone.

 

Total misconception on my part.  Didn't think people want easy mode and have to ask game developers to dumb down games now. Wonder why all these power sets exist that are different instead of being the same, why can't we be level 50 with max powers, same set, and IOs rail road spiking Contaminated into the ground solo?  That would be a challenge!

 

tl;dr - Sarcasm not directed at anyone. Forgot OP complained about Crystal Armor, people complaining about Granite threw me off and a dumb comment about "no AT should rely on another"  (regardless if its a buffer or something else) when its obvious that toggles have defense holes for a reason until higher levels.  Any set or AT gains a massive force multipler when paired with another, Stone actually has an advantage over click powers without a crash at 32/38 since Granite is a toggle ( unless it changed, haven't looked at all of the sets); it also had disadvantages such as the problems with granite.

 

As for their TF the OP mentioned, all classes have problems and further compounded by exemplar, try playing a blaster without IO and that mez hole.  Defender buffs fix it, just as much as a Stone Armor brute.

That is a really long tl;dr

[Hyperstrike]

 

On 11/5/2019 at 12:12 AM, Outrider_01 said:

-Smart players learned to turn Granite off when they need to.  OP much?  See above about final last power in defense sets comment.

You want UN-crush?!?!?
 

 

[Razor Cure]

On 11/5/2019 at 8:38 PM, Hyperstrike said:

Actually, 3 slotted with Common Jump IOs, it's 5534.4% (10 kins)
With 6 Common Jump IOs, it's 6064.8% (9 kins).

I was just looking at this in Mids. Apparently you can NOT have rooted/granite active with combat jumping. No idea if that is just in Mids or in game too. Also, totally weird, but when I turn rooted and granite on in the Totals tab, my JumpSpd goes UP! Up! The jump height though, goes down as expected.

[Haijinx]

No jump powers allowed with those

[SeraphimKensai]

About a month ago, I started a thread to take a look at redesigning Stone Armor that ended up having some decent ideas and conversation tossed about. It's Linked Here, if anyone is interested in checking out the discussion.

 

All in all, I haven't encountered anyone that would be opposed to addressing some of Stone Armor's issues.

[Lost Ninja]

9 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

About a month ago, I started a thread to take a look at redesigning Stone Armor that ended up having some decent ideas and conversation tossed about. It's Linked Here, if anyone is interested in checking out the discussion.

 

All in all, I haven't encountered anyone that would be opposed to addressing some of Stone Armor's issues.

There were some good ideas in that thread. (I only remembered the arguments about creativity...) 😄