Storm Kick not giving defense bonus

[WindDemon21]

I posted a bug report for it, and supposedly it only gives the defense bonus to tanks and brutes? Which it even scales the value down to 7.5% for brutes which should clearly be given to scrappers and stalkers as well. MA overall is pretty lacking in general, it's aoe is one of the worst in the melee classes, and it's damage type is one of the most resisted in the game. There is no reason that scrappers and stalkers shouldn't get the defense bonus from it as well. Someone mentioned that it has a higher crit chance, but checking the power 5% more chance to crit is WAYYY not worth it to lose that 7.5% defense bonus to all damage. Please update this power correctly to provide the defense bonus for scrappers and stalkers. I would gladly lose that 5% extra crit chance. (which btw brutes still gain fury off of the power, AND get that defense boost, and tanks get the defense boost, and also gauntlet from it as well, so saying that it gets extra crit for it is kinda absurd either way, and no, i want to pair it as a scrapper with ninja for a ninja theme, so i'm not rolling as a brute, and that defense bonus that it should rightfully have is pretty crucial to the build)

[Burnt Toast]

MA is lacking? Uhhh ok news to me. I run with a super team of MA Scrappers and we destroy everything/anything. My MA/Ninjitsu scrapper is an absolute beast. I am already sitting at 53% positional defense to everything and don't need anything else. 

[WindDemon21]

It's only aoe dragons tail only has an 8ft radius. Of course the set is decent to single target cause it specializes in that more but even at that it's still only smashing damage which is one of the most resisted in the game. When compared to *most* sets it is on the bottom tier easily as most content is focused around having aoe damage as it is. I'm not saying I dont like MA.

 

It's very stylish and I want to love it, but it should have the defense bonus on scraps and stalkers as well and it wouldn't break anything on the set. Honestly dragons tail should be earlier in the set as well at least swapped with CAK. For how low the set is for aoe it should at least get it sooner.

 

But back to the main issue it should have the defense bonus on those two classes as well and it would easily not break the set (and 5% extra crit chance is definitely not worth the tradeoff of losing that global defense bonus, and it would give a lot more flexibility in builds for MA as well.)

[WindDemon21]

2 hours ago, Burnt Toast said:

MA is lacking? Uhhh ok news to me. I run with a super team of MA Scrappers and we destroy everything/anything. My MA/Ninjitsu scrapper is an absolute beast. I am already sitting at 53% positional defense to everything and don't need anything else. 

Sets are also not supposed to be balanced around 600 million influence builds either, which to get that much defense you would have to be using multiple purple, winter, and ATO sets.

[Uun]

I don't feel the need for the defense bonus on scrappers. I would rather see storm kick switched for the spinning kick dominators get. It's the same animation, but the dom version is a cone that hits whatever is in front of you without targeting.

[WindDemon21]

I've often thought that storm kick should be a cone so much, that I honestly thought that was a change to the power and that it was a cone now XD. It really makes sense that it would be a cone, like when a fighter in a movie does a roundhouse that kicks like 3 enemies in the face with one motion etc. But the issue is that if tanks and brutes have it, its an addition that was needed for the set and should be available to scrappers as well. I like the stylishness of MA, but until I thought that MA got that defense bonus I would never have considered rolling another MA toon again for how lacking the aoe is, and the animations for even the single target feel kinda slow for that being it's specialty, and being one of the most resisted damage types in the game.

[WindDemon21]

It would in no way overpower MA to grant that defense bonus on scrappers and stalkers as well, since clearly tanks and brutes can get it and they are even better with their defensive capabilities.

[Burnt Toast]

1 hour ago, WindDemon21 said:

Sets are also not supposed to be balanced around 600 million influence builds either, which to get that much defense you would have to be using multiple purple, winter, and ATO sets.

You can easily soft cap ninjistu without expensive sets. FYI Purples do not give Defense bonuses. The problem with people and their builds costing so much is a lot of people are impatient and want the IO recipe/enhancement NOW so they pay higher. You can get 45% position defense with Generic IOs/lower end sets and the steadfast and glad armor procs. 

[WindDemon21]

Purples to offset the loss of acc/rech bonuses you'd get otherwise like from crushing impact etc, I know that they don't have defense bonuses. Was mostly relating to the ATOs and Winter sets. The sets that give most of the defense bonuses, since MA only has one aoe attack, will be makos, and touch of death, neither of which have any acc/rech/end bonuses.  If storm kick gave that defense bonus, which it rightfully should for scrappers and stalkers, it would free the build up that much more to use crushing impact instead (which only really needs 5 slots btw, instead of 6 slots for mako/ToD, which takes away from things like 7.5% max hp, +resist IOs etc), and would give better survivability earlier on as well before you get all those IOs, especially since you don't get any aoe/mitigation to a mob and not just ST until 26 >_>.

[Burnt Toast]

This is a modification of my build. No ATOs..no purples...no winter sets... and DEFINITELY not a 600 mill build. You can even take out the LoTG +rech to save more money if you want and go with Ageless Destiny if that suits you. I have done hundreds of builds for people of all budgets... as low as 100 mill and high as 1.5 bill..... This is not my actual build that I play, BUT it is very much playable and as you can see... it reaches the soft cap on all positions. 

 

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[WindDemon21]

Well slotwise i guess i should have mentioned wanting to do it as a non-hasten build. Which also they should at least look at those click mez protections to reduce their base recharge to be naturally perma IMO. I've also made hundreds of builds for people, often specializing in cheaper builds, but for myself sometimes there are things that I want, like for this one specifically to not have hasten, but have all the attacks, though none i have ever done would go as high as 1.5 bil i don't even know how that's possible unless you're talking about live or REALLY bad at AH lol. But ergo my previous statements about slotting, and guess another big thing i should have mentioned cause it impacts slotting is fitting exploding shuriken in there as well. Pushing *base* builds is easy but that's my key point here, you have to put almost all of your focus on that to do it, there isn't much wiggle room. However if storm kick had the defense bonus that it should rightfully have, this would leave a lot more wiggle room in the build for this.

[WindDemon21]

2 hours ago, Burnt Toast said:

This is a modification of my build. No ATOs..no purples...no winter sets... and DEFINITELY not a 600 mill build. You can even take out the LoTG +rech to save more money if you want and go with Ageless Destiny if that suits you. I have done hundreds of builds for people of all budgets... as low as 100 mill and high as 1.5 bill..... This is not my actual build that I play, BUT it is very much playable and as you can see... it reaches the soft cap on all positions. 

 

 

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Just pointing out as well, that whoever also said that they had 53% to all THREE positional defenses, which to do that yes you would need to use winter/ATO sets if possible. Also just a quick help, on that build since you're using the preventative medicine proc anyway, you'll get better bonuses moving that slot to the ninja heal and doing all preventative medicine for the bonuses over doctored wounds. I'd gather you have that cause DW is cheaper which I often use, but at that rate the absorb proc isn't that great on it's own that I'd really bother with anywho outside of using it for that 6th Prev Medicine bonus, but most Prev-medicines you can get at 2 mil within a day, DW is 750k-1mil each so it's not much different for the much better bonuses you get from Prev medicine.

[Burnt Toast]

3 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

Just pointing out as well, that whoever also said that they had 53% to all THREE positional defenses, which to do that yes you would need to use winter/ATO sets if possible. Also just a quick help, on that build since you're using the preventative medicine proc anyway, you'll get better bonuses moving that slot to the ninja heal and doing all preventative medicine for the bonuses over doctored wounds. I'd gather you have that cause DW is cheaper which I often use, but at that rate the absorb proc isn't that great on it's own that I'd really bother with anywho outside of using it for that 6th Prev Medicine bonus, but most Prev-medicines you can get at 2 mil within a day, DW is 750k-1mil each so it's not much different for the much better bonuses you get from Prev medicine.

Again.. not the build I am using or would use.. just did it super quick to show that with cheap sets you can get that. With ATO you can get more melee obviously. But I made a quick cheap build... hence why the DW - cheaper etc... point being.. you can soft cap without purples, atos, or winter sets. So no I do not think storm kick needs the defense bonus as was requested. End of discussion... point made. Too many people come here to argue and use semantics..... I am gonna actually play the game now 🙂

 

[Razor Cure]

9 hours ago, Burnt Toast said:

MA is lacking? Uhhh ok news to me. I run with a super team of MA Scrappers and we destroy everything/anything. My MA/Ninjitsu scrapper is an absolute beast. I am already sitting at 53% positional defense to everything and don't need anything else. 

A super team of any power set is hardly a measurement of how the set is by itself. Also, 53% def? Again..zero at ALL to do with MA.

[Burnt Toast]

1 minute ago, Razor Cure said:

A super team of any power set is hardly a measurement of how the set is by itself. Also, 53% def? Again..zero at ALL to do with MA.

They said they couldnt do it with Ninjitsu without ATOs..winter..etc.... so..... I showed you could.

 

[HelenCarnate]

4 minutes ago, Razor Cure said:

A super team of any power set is hardly a measurement of how the set is by itself. Also, 53% def? Again..zero at ALL to do with MA.

The OP wants a MA/Ninjitsu and the complaint was there was no defense bonus in MA like there is for Brutes and Tankers.  This simply proves with the proper build the defense bonus is not needed for what the OP is trying to do.

[Burnt Toast]

1 minute ago, HelenCarnate said:

The OP wants a MA/Ninjitsu and the complaint was there was no defense bonus in MA like there is for Brutes and Tankers.  This simply proves with the proper build the defense bonus is not needed for what the OP is trying to do.

Thanks for paying attention...reading..comprehending..and not just using the forums to be contrarian.

[Razor Cure]

3 minutes ago, HelenCarnate said:

The OP wants a MA/Ninjitsu and the complaint was there was no defense bonus in MA like there is for Brutes and Tankers.  This simply proves with the proper build the defense bonus is not needed for what the OP is trying to do.

That..is just silly. So the power for scrappers does not need the +def buff..because one guys choice of secondary can cover it?  Is that your argument?

[HelenCarnate]

Just now, Razor Cure said:

That..is just silly. So the power for scrappers does not need the +def buff..because one guys choice of secondary can cover it?  Is that your argument?

No, the OP does not need to worry about the +def buff in this specific case because his choice of secondary can cover it.  Honestly if I were to argue for any change in the +defense it would be to remove it from Brutes and Tankers as it is stupidly OP.

[Razor Cure]

Ohh. So it is all good for brutes and tanks..but scrappers (who are less survivable in general) dont need it..because..you CAN pick a secondary that is defence based? Again, this makes no sense. None. What if he wants to make a MA/FA scrapper instead? Suddenly the set should have that +def power, just because his secondary cant cover it? Shall we go ahead and remove +def from parry, DA, and the TW power, just on the offchance someone might pair them with a defence secondary?

[Burnt Toast]

8 minutes ago, Razor Cure said:

Ohh. So it is all good for brutes and tanks..but scrappers (who are less survivable in general) dont need it..because..you CAN pick a secondary that is defence based? Again, this makes no sense. None. What if he wants to make a MA/FA scrapper instead? Suddenly the set should have that +def power, just because his secondary cant cover it? Shall we go ahead and remove +def from parry, DA, and the TW power, just on the offchance someone might pair them with a defence secondary?

Again... people who come here just to argue... this is why I block people.. another added. Reading comprehension is your friend. The OP didn't mention anything about any other secondary.. they stated they could not get a good build for less than 600 mill.. build provided with no purps..atos..winter..etc... seriously. Stay on topic. Ugh. This is why I rarely post any more. 

[Razor Cure]

I reread the OP again..and he wants to know why a big part of MA on brutes/tanks is NOT on teh scrapper version. You are the one who made teh utterly unrelated comment about MA being 'fine' because a super team of MA scrappers can win the internets. ANd because you have a good build. Please..point out HOW that relates to Storm Kick having/not having the +def?

And then Helen said the +def does not matter..because his secondary is def. Again..how is THAT related to +def in storm kick? You know..what the OP is asking about.

 

4 minutes ago, Burnt Toast said:

his is why I rarely post any more. 

Please, continue that trend.

Edited November 23, 2019 by Razor Cure

[WindDemon21]

28 minutes ago, Burnt Toast said:

Again.. not the build I am using or would use.. just did it super quick to show that with cheap sets you can get that. With ATO you can get more melee obviously. But I made a quick cheap build... hence why the DW - cheaper etc... point being.. you can soft cap without purples, atos, or winter sets. So no I do not think storm kick needs the defense bonus as was requested. End of discussion... point made. Too many people come here to argue and use semantics..... I am gonna actually play the game now 🙂

 

I did also forget about stealth, but generally I would never enter that in to the discussion but in the build I was suggesting, while you can do without thunder kick I would miss it, but wanted shuriken too for theme and ranged, and gives a good range bonus as well. I actually made from what I was describing a pretty sweet build that's close to the 53% actually, does use a full pvp set in tough, but for all around 52% it could lose that defense bonus and put a couple slots elsewhere, even if wanting to spend more money to 6 slot 2 single target attacks with the scrapper ATOs for the crit boosters and get some more defense in the process, but ranged is most important cause that's where most defense debuff happens. If anything per this discussion though I did get fairly happy with this build enough to probably still do it, but again, that defense bonus exists on the set, it's just stupid that scraps and stalkers don't get it which they should, but this is part of what's great about the game is discussing this stuff lol.

Anywhere here's the build I was kinda suggesting (love crane for style points, but given that storm kick doesn't give the defense which I hope they rectify, i'd probably drop crane kick for thunder kick for dps

 

http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/download.php?uc=1465&c=663&a=1326&f=HEX&dc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

 

 

And if I don't mind spending money on the scrapper ATOs and overwhelming force for crane kick making it do knockdown for DPS:

 

http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/download.php?uc=1465&c=686&a=1372&f=HEX&dc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

 

[Indystruck]

Because it's not needed and gets the crit boost instead. You answered your own question in the OP.

[GM Sijin]

FYI: The crit chance bonus was converted to defense for Tankers and Brutes when proliferated, as those ATs can't crit. You can disagree with that design decision and offer constructive feedback regarding it, but this is absolutely not an oversight or bug.