What is min/maxing?

[Ironscarlet]

On 2/7/2020 at 5:40 PM, siolfir said:

Just because it should be there because the secondary effect is more damage instead of any form of mitigation, doesn't mean that it is.

For any AT that gets it and wants to IO it out, Titan Weapons is an outlier, and War Mace isn't far behind with both sets doing well in both single target and AoE damage.

Mace is no way top 3.  Mace propaganda again. Its good but it is not even top 5. No numbers support Mace as top damage.

 

The top 3 are the newest powersets they just over shadow the old ones in every way.

 

1. Titan weapon = love it or hate it  numbers don't lie

2. Psi melee = highest ST attack in game

3. Rad melee = damage aura, high ST, heal, aoe, splash the most well rounded and proc monster

and close runners up Super Strength ( rage crashes hurt it), Electric melee ( mini nuke), Fiery melee (dps focused)

Also you could switch Psi melee for Rad melee depending on AT you play. Psi melee being better for stalkers and Rad being more well rounded for Tankers an so forth depending on playstyle if ST=single target is more important than being well rounded.

 

 

Damage armors

 

1. Bio = consistent 30% boost in damage + damage aura

2. Shield = against all odds 55% damage boost at max out enemies

3. Rad Armor = Meltdown 35% boost  for 60 sec + proc monster slotting ( could argue the best if combined with the right build to free up more slots for procs)

4. Fire armor= Fiery embrace 2nd build up and burn ( why 4th? In farms its the best but outside of farms it is overshadowed by everything and burn takes to long to set. A good team would be ready to move on by then.)

 

 

Combine the first 2 TW/BIO is meta right now. Until TW nerfed. Scrappers run it best.

 

Some powers work better than others depending on AT like Tanks, Scrappers, Stalkers and Brutes.

 

Edited February 15, 2020 by Ironscarlet

[SwitchFade]

44 minutes ago, Ironscarlet said:

Mace is no way top 3.  Mace propaganda again. Its good but it is not even top 5. No numbers support Mace as top damage.

 

The top 3 are the newest powersets they just over shadow the old ones in every way.

 

1. Titan weapon = love it or hate it  numbers don't lie

2. Psi melee = highest ST attack in game

3. Rad melee = damage aura, high ST, heal, aoe, splash the most well rounded and proc monster

and close runners up Super Strength ( rage crashes hurt it), Electric melee ( mini nuke), Fiery melee (dps focused)

Also you could switch Psi melee for Rad melee depending on AT you play. Psi melee being better for stalkers and Rad being more well rounded for Tankers an so forth depending on playstyle if ST=single target is more important than being well rounded.

 

 

Damage armors

 

1. Bio = consistent 30% boost in damage + damage aura

2. Shield = against all odds 55% damage boost at max out enemies

3. Rad Armor = Meltdown 35% boost  for 60 sec + proc monster slotting ( could argue the best if combined with the right build to free up more slots for procs)

4. Fire armor= Fiery embrace 2nd build up and burn ( why 4th? In farms its the best but outside of farms it is overshadowed by everything and burn takes to long to set. A good team would be ready to move on by then.)

 

 

Combine the first 2 TW/BIO is meta right now. Until TW nerfed. Scrappers run it best.

 

Some powers work better than others depending on AT like Tanks, Scrappers, Stalkers and Brutes.

 

Yes but...

 

You down with OPP?!

[VileTerror]

I've used this before in another thread, but it feels appropriate here now too . . . after two whole pages of posts:

[SwitchFade]

13 minutes ago, VileTerror said:

I've used this before in another thread, but it feels appropriate here now too . . . after two whole pages of posts:

Nathan Fillion, between solving crimes, writing books and being a starship taxi captain, can be seen here with a pain in the brain pan.

[Gobbledygook]

 

 

You may have already seen this in the Scrapper forums, if not, here you go. It's all very informative. You may need to read the whole thread. Again, apologies if yo have read it. Further apologies if you are one of the contributors to the testing, and I just don't remember.

 

 

 

On 2/7/2020 at 5:05 PM, Snarky said:

On topic. For a melee character could i get a few opinions of the top three damage dealing powerset 

 

  

On 11/25/2019 at 10:19 PM, Galaxy Brain said:

So, one thing I have wanted to do for a bit was reorganize my listing with all the tracked factors taken into account. These include:

1. Average Clear Time
2. Standard Deviation
3. Best Time
4. Worst Time
5. Difference (between Best and Worst)
6. Safety

We have been looking at only the average clear time without taking everything we measured into account. I went though my personal runs to sort all these factors as seen prior, but I did want to touch on the Safety ranking real quick.

 

 

In my personal experience with the sets, when I had runs where I died I would end up with 2 deaths conveniently enough. Looking back at either 0 or two deaths, it was then somewhat easy to separate the groups into 2 tiers each:

• A score of 0 meant that the set is essentially invincible vs the test enemies.
• A score of 1 meant that while there were no deaths, you still took some bumps and bruises where you could have died if you were sloppy.
• A score of 2 was set due to these sets having 2 DNF's each thanks to factors such as unreliable mitigation or slow animations on mitigating attacks.
• A score of 3 was then reserved for the two sets that I felt the least safe while playing and actually had to slow down and retreat at times to survive. 

 

This screenshot also shows how I broke down the ranking across 6 different criteria. The Name and the raw number are self explanatory, and like with the time stat on all other fields the scores are ranked smallest to largest for the Safety. The average score is shown above.

 

The Gap column shows breaks between each power set's score, and if a gap is greater than or equal to the average gap (shown on top) it is highlighted and becomes a Tier Division.

 

Tiers are on the left, from S tier down to F tier (not shown here) and next to them will be a number from 1 (S) to 7 (F). The worse the performance, the higher the Tier number. Next to the Gap column is a field where the power set's score is divided by the average score to get a value for how much better or worse than average it performed. If a set gets a 0.80 here, it is 20% better than average, and likewise 20% worse than average if it has a 1.20 here. 

 

The last column is the Weighted Score. Taking the Tier Number and adding it to the value from average nets a number between 1 and ~9ish per powerset, per criteria. 

 

 

 

Adding up all the weighted scores, and sorting from the lowest to the highest we get this:

 

 

Full Breakdown: Galaxy Tiers Tab

 

Based on my own experiences, this feels about right on SO's given our mission criteria. Though I could see Psy moving a bit higher up with more practice and Elec Melee may feel lower than it should be based on the pairing.

 

B Tier seems to be a sweet spot where the solid sets are. A and C tiers are essentially either slightly better or slightly worse, with them all being within +/- 20% of average performance. Note: The distinction was made for C tier based not on the gap between War Mace and Martial Arts' score, but by the % away from average and how closely the sets with -11%ish values are.

 

Above 20% differences, we see S Tier with Katana and Staff Fighting on the high end, and then surprisingly Elec Melee in D tier and Fiery Melee below in E tier. The former S tier sets have great ST and AoE dps capabilities, on top of having a parry and soft control options. Essentially all you could want in melee sets. On the latter end, Fiery Melee's sheer lack of mitigation was incredibly detrimental when combined with how poor Fire Breath is as a secondary AoE. When compared to Ice Melee's frost and (Ice Stomp), on top of the mitigation it is clear to see which temperature wins out in a vacuum. Elec Melee's score is a shocker given the set's reputation as a powerhouse, but on SO's only and without offensive support from the secondary I found the AoE's either too slow or finnicky (missing Chain induction stinks), and outside Thunderstrike your other mitigation options are either RNG or Thunderclap which scatters enemies and slows you down further and ruins your AoEs. This lead to Elec Melee having poor Standard Deviation, Worst Time and Difference stats, as well as being on the bottom half of Safety. With a proper secondary and IO support it gets a huge boost in performance for sure.

 

Then, we have the S+ Tier and the F tier that are over 40% from average, with S+ being 57% better than average and a whole 19% better than the next best tier. On the high end, Titan Weapons has everything that the S Tier sets had in the last paragraph but just cranked to 11. It simply hits that much harder per swing to pump it up to the top of the line for all the time stats, and having the 2nd best time in a run behind Spines as well as having the "best" Worst Time. On the flip side, Dark Melee sits at the bottom for reasons similar to why Elec Melee was so low. With essentially no AoE coverage due to how Shadow Maul works and how the drains do "Participation" damage, it is very hard to actually leverage Soul Drain's potential for clearing maps effectively aside from beating the crap out of bosses. That said, that ended up being a bit dangerous as you could not fully leverage your -ToHit in a crowd due to how the AoEs work as well which left you vulnerable in ways that other sets that could sweep and knock down foes or boost their own stats / kill minions quickly did not have to account for. This lead to 2 DNF runs for me as even though you can have a field day vs 1 target it's dangerous in a crowd unless you have tools to deal further AoE or mitigate multiple enemies.  (seems to have been built for dark/dark... hmmm)

 

---

 

So, when it comes to further secondary pairings I had to think on it a bit, and we will need something that fits the following criteria in order to have more drastic results:

 

1. Preferably has a damage aura or some other direct, AoE damage potential. 
   1. Sets that did not fair well had issues clearing out a bunch of mobs efficiently and lead to more hits being thrown at them. A set like Spines had 0 issues dancing through mobs due to being able to delete minions so quickly and eliminate tons of potential incoming damage. Secondaries with the ability to knock out a few extra mobs would have a huge impact on certain sets that lack AoE while possibly not effecting AoE heavy sets as much.
2. Has more hard mitigation / emergency powers.
   1. Willpower on SO's was able to provide decent enough sustainability to allow you to only die if you were not on your toes. This allowed sets with mitigation to have noticeable impacts on performance as you layered their effects onto WP for great survival, but sets without mitigation or at least high enough (AoE) DPS to eliminate incoming damage suffered. A set that could more directly stop damage or recover reliably without need to retreat and regenerate would provide a different metric for a few sets, and such click powers would also break up attack chains.

Off the top of my head the following fit the bill:

• Bio Armor (has everything)
• Dark Armor (Damage Aura, CC auras, HP Drain)
• Electric Armor (Click Heal, Damage Aura, End Drain, Recharge passive)
• Fiery Aura (Click Heal, Damage Aura, End Drain, AoE Attack, secondary build up)
• Ice Armor (Damage Aura, Debuff Aura, End Drain, Self Heal)
• Rad Aura (offers more AoEs, a click heal, absorb, and even +Rech)

 

Of these.... Ice Armor actually looks very interesting to me and I don't think we talked about it much. It is primarily a defense set, which gives it a dynamic where it can simply not take damage due to luck that can help certain sets per run. On top of this, it has a great debuff power in Chilling Embrace which keeps foes near you with it's -Slow and the -Rech and -Dam will lower incoming DPS. Icicles is also a decent damage aura by the looks of it to help with AoE damage. 

 

Ice also comes with 3 emergency clicks. An End Drain on a 1min (30s) recharge, a self heal and +MaxHp on a 6min (3min) recharge, and an actually usable T9 that makes you essentially god mode for 30s on a 5min (2.5min... technically 2min) recharge that could all be used a few times per run. 

 

Thoughts @Infinitum, @Sir Myshkin, @Demon Shell, @Hopeling?

 

 

Edit: scratch Ice Armor, without constant regen the hits that do land add up...