water/kin or kin/water

[ashenlost]

Hi All,

 

Has anyone played both of these? Does the defenders greater buffs and procs make out for lower damage cap?

[Darkir]

Water/Kin, your buffs are so strong you will cap everyone, but brutes. The proc opportunities for water are decent, but not stellar and either def or corr can take advantage of them while maintaining defenses. I will say that the corruptor will be a tighter build though, but you do get much more dmg out of it due to the higher dmg scale and cap. 

[Gulbasaur]

I'll vote corruptor as well; kinetics' key powers are all so powerful that the difference is less noticeable. 

 

Generally, I think that debuff sets are best on defenders while buff sets are best on corruptors with those that do both being more of a toss-up. Debuffs tend to be stronger than buffs numerically, do defenders get extra mileage out of them so they act as much better force multipliers. There are also oddities like Storm that are just better all round on defenders as it doesn't work consistently with Containment or Scourge. 

 

Obviously a good-at-buffing defender is better than a bad-at-buffing corruptor, but it's a rule of thumb that I follow. 

 

As kinetics is primarily a buff set (it does some -dmg too), it'll do well enough on a corruptor. 

[Linea]

In general you'd want a /Kin to take advantage of the higher damage cap.   However, depending on build, I can see exceptions to that rule.

[ashenlost]

I have a lvl 50 kin/water but I was trying to work out a build that had reasonable defense + procs but I wasnt satisfied. I was thinking that a water/kin would be easier to build

[Darkir]

15 hours ago, ashenlost said:

I have a lvl 50 kin/water but I was trying to work out a build that had reasonable defense + procs but I wasnt satisfied. I was thinking that a water/kin would be easier to build

A defender is actually easier to build due to the higher higher defense modifiers, but a corruptor will be better overall.

[ashenlost]

Would anyone have a build for either of these lying around? Just something I can start from? I did have a look on the forum but couldn't see anything.

[Darkir]

2 hours ago, ashenlost said:

Would anyone have a build for either of these lying around? Just something I can start from? I did have a look on the forum but couldn't see anything.

I'm at a wedding right now, but I'm sure I have a water/kin build at home and I'll post it when I'm back. You could check my Kintank thread for inspiration until then. That is fire/kin though.

[ashenlost]

 

I will check out your fire/kin build in the meantime

[Darkir]

Here you go. Remember that sprint+ninja run+siphon speed=max movespeed and so you do not need super speed.

 

Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Corruptor
Primary Power Set: Water Blast
Secondary Power Set: Kinetics
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Sorcery
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Aqua Bolt -- Apc-Dmg/Rchg(A), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(11), Apc-Acc/Rchg(13), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(15), Apc-Dam%(34)
Level 1: Transfusion -- Pnc-Heal/EndRedux(A), Pnc-EndRdx/Rchg(3), Pnc-Heal/Rchg(3), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(5), Pnc-Heal(5)
Level 2: Water Burst -- SprScrBls-Acc/Dmg(A), SprScrBls-Dmg/Rchg(13), SprScrBls-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(15), PstBls-Dmg/EndRdx(45), FrcFdb-Rechg%(45)
Level 4: Siphon Power -- Acc-I(A)
Level 6: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(7), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(7), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(9), Rct-ResDam%(9), Ksm-ToHit+(11)
Level 8: Whirlpool -- SprScrBls-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), SprScrBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), SprScrBls-Rchg/+End(37), Slow-I(42)
Level 10: Siphon Speed -- Acc-I(A)
Level 12: Dehydrate -- Dcm-Acc/Dmg(A), Dcm-Dmg/EndRdx(37), Dcm-Dmg/Rchg(37), Dcm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Dcm-Build%(39)
Level 14: Boxing -- KntCmb-Acc/Dmg(A), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx(42), KntCmb-Dmg/Rchg(43), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 16: Tough -- RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(17), RctArm-ResDam(17), RctArm-EndRdx(19), GldArm-3defTpProc(19), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(21)
Level 18: Water Jet -- SprMlcoft-Acc/Dmg(A), SprMlcoft-Dmg/Rchg(21), SprMlcoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(23), SprMlcoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23), SprMlcoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25), SprMlcoft-Rchg/Dmg%(25)
Level 20: Speed Boost -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 22: Weave -- RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFrt-EndRdx/Rchg(39), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(40), RedFrt-Def(46), RedFrt-EndRdx(46), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(50)
Level 24: Tactics -- HO:Cyto(A)
Level 26: Arcane Bolt -- SprWntBit-Dmg/Rchg(A), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(27), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(27), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(29), SprWntBit-Rchg/SlowProc(29)
Level 28: Spirit Ward -- Prv-Absorb%(A)
Level 30: Rune of Protection -- RctArm-ResDam/Rchg(A), RctArm-EndRdx/Rchg(31), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(31), RctArm-ResDam(31)
Level 32: Geyser -- Rgn-Dmg(A), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(33), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(33), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(34), FrcFdb-Rechg%(34)
Level 35: Scorpion Shield -- RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFrt-EndRdx/Rchg(36), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(36), RedFrt-Def(43), RedFrt-EndRdx(45), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(46)
Level 38: Fulcrum Shift -- Acc-I(A)
Level 41: Transference -- PrfShf-EndMod/Acc(A)
Level 44: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 47: Web Cocoon -- BslGaz-Acc/Hold(A), BslGaz-Rchg/Hold(48), BslGaz-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(48), BslGaz-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(48)
Level 49: Repel -- EndRdx-I(A), FrcFdb-Rechg%(50), SuddAcc--KB/+KD(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Quick Form 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Scourge 
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Pnc-Heal/+End(40), Mrc-Rcvry+(42)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-End%(40)
Level 1: Combo Level 1 
Level 1: Combo Level 2 
Level 1: Combo Level 3 
Level 50: Agility Core Paragon 
Level 0: Born In Battle 
Level 0: High Pain Threshold 
Level 0: Invader 
Level 0: Marshal 
------------

 

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[ashenlost]

thanks darkir

[DirtyBoxerz]

@Darkir do you have a defender version kin/water? or is it basically just the class IOs are different

[MoonSheep]

a consideration for kin as a defender is that you’ll get SB and FS much earlier on which may be important if you enjoy low level TFs/trials

[Without_Pause]

5 hours ago, MoonSheep said:

a consideration for kin as a defender is that you’ll get SB and FS much earlier on which may be important if you enjoy low level TFs/trials

That should only really matter when leveling since you have have access to powers 5 levels higher than a TFs cap. Case in point, once you hit 38, FS can be used on a Manti TF.

[Darkir]

On 12/28/2021 at 9:39 PM, DirtyBoxerz said:

@Darkir do you have a defender version kin/water? or is it basically just the class IOs are different

No, because you really really want to use kinetics on a corruptor due to the higher damage cap and scourge. Kin and Cold are some of the few sets that are much better on a corruptor (perhaps the only sets)