Degenerative Interface bugged

[Coyote]

I was wondering why Siege, formerly impossible for me to beat due to his huge heal... went down in 2 minutes. So I ran Power Analyzer on Black Swan, who died in less than a minute, and found out that her Maximum HPs were down to about 4k by the time she was dead.

 

I'm using Degenerative Total Core Conversion. Illusion/Storm, so maybe it has something to do with how many different entities are considered as doing damage to her? Maybe each one gets to stack its own set of -MaxHP debuffs? Maybe the stacks aren't limited to a maximum? Her MaxHPs decreased steadily during the fight down to the 4k.

[Caulderone]

Sounds like the 4 stack cap on that debuff is missing/messed up.  It is supposed to be total, but maybe it is bugged to be per entity?

Edited February 23, 2020 by Caulderone

[Bopper]

1 hour ago, Caulderone said:

Sounds like the 4 stack cap on that debuff is missing/messed up.  It is supposed to be total, but maybe it is bugged to be per entity?

The most a single target can have a specific interface debuff stacked on itself is 4. I dont recall the numbers, but I think one stack does -3.5% Max HP which would mean the most a target can be debuffed is -14% (before resists, if applicable). If its bugged, it could be either the limit of 4x stack is broke, or the stacks are no longer counting on itself (the target) but rather each player is now allowed up to 4 stacks on a single target (super overpowered, if so), or it's possible (unlikely) the % got messed up.

 

I'm curious if a developer looked at it yet. Has anyone else seen this behavior? 

Edited February 23, 2020 by Bopper

[Coyote]

I don't think the debuff numbers are messed up, since it takes a while to ramp up the debuff, but it feels like it never stops. The AV takes a tiny sliver of damage for the first 30 seconds, then it starts taking noticeable damage, and then the damage just starts pouring through right around the start of the 2nd PA. Diabolique lasted quite a while, though, so clearly the stacks were dropping during her Intangible periods, but other AVs including a +5 (+4 with level shift) didn't last through 2 PAs, with the damage noticeably increasing during the 2nd summons.

 

I do have out:
2 Tornadoes

3 Storms

1-2 Enflame patches

1 Freezing Rain

3 Decoys

1 Phantasm

1 Phantasm decoy (if its imaginary damage does the effect)

1 Mu Guardian

1-2 Energy Orbs

 

That's easily enough entities that if each entity is allowed to stack its own 4-stack of debuffs, it will reach whatever the -MaxHp floor is, if there is any. It's also possible that the maximum stacks limit is just broken. Makes me consider copying the character to the test server, building a -Res interface and seeing if that also has a broken stack limit.

[Bopper]

43 minutes ago, Coyote said:

I don't think the debuff numbers are messed up, since it takes a while to ramp up the debuff, but it feels like it never stops. The AV takes a tiny sliver of damage for the first 30 seconds, then it starts taking noticeable damage, and then the damage just starts pouring through right around the start of the 2nd PA. Diabolique lasted quite a while, though, so clearly the stacks were dropping during her Intangible periods, but other AVs including a +5 (+4 with level shift) didn't last through 2 PAs, with the damage noticeably increasing during the 2nd summons.

 

I do have out:
2 Tornadoes

3 Storms

1-2 Enflame patches

1 Freezing Rain

3 Decoys

1 Phantasm

1 Phantasm decoy (if its imaginary damage does the effect)

1 Mu Guardian

1-2 Energy Orbs

 

That's easily enough entities that if each entity is allowed to stack its own 4-stack of debuffs, it will reach whatever the -MaxHp floor is, if there is any. It's also possible that the maximum stacks limit is just broken. Makes me consider copying the character to the test server, building a -Res interface and seeing if that also has a broken stack limit.

Is it possible you can do a test without the pets where you use only fast attacks in hopes of achieving more than 4 stacks before the debuffs wear off? It would help us know if the limit of the stacks is flat out broke, or if each entity is allowed up to 4 stacks. Either way it's broke, but it would help identify the root cause.

[Coyote]

Good idea. I can bring enough Lucks to survive a weaker AV long enough to get an idea. There WILL be a use for Boxing after all!

[Coyote]

Update: After I mentioned this, Nihilii did some testing with a character using only personal attacks and found that the stacks seem to stack and fade at a normal rate. He couldn't get stacking high enough to see a problem, which may be why it hasn't been seen... if the stack limit is per entity, not many characters are using so many entities that it would make a drastically noticeable effect.

 

Well, other than Thugs/Storm or Demons/Storm. Although I wonder if this may be contributing to some of the Pylon times that I've seen for those builds....

 

 

  

27 minutes ago, nihilii said:

46 minutes ago, Coyote said:

Check out the Bug Forum for a report I put up about Degenerative Interface. There is something buggy with it, and it's likely skewing any Pylon results for characters using it. I haven't had time to test it out with Brawl/Boxing to figure out the exact details, and a Scrapper isn't putting out 14 different sources of damage like my Ill/Storm, so it's not going to be as ridiculous as it is for me, but it's still likely making a big difference.

I used a Power Analyzer on my fire/rad/psi Sentinel to check this just now. Every attack she has is 1.32s or under, so she's likely close to the highest possible number of stacks you can throw on a petless character.

 

Average -maxHP was -3900 (which fits with expected value against 30677 Pylon HP = ~12.5%). There was ONE spike of -4900 for a moment, but it was gone as soon as it happened.

 

 

Edited February 28, 2020 by Coyote
Nihili -> Nihilii

[Bopper]

They have a fix on the Staging test server. Should be patched soon

[Coyote]

2 hours ago, Bopper said:

They have a fix on the Staging test server. Should be patched soon

 

I saw a fix about the interface regarding Raids, I wasn't sure this was it. It's not a Raid encounter, after all. But maybe it really was only noticed much on Raid encounters because usually you don't have so many sources of damage on AVs when soloing? Anyhow, I hope you're right... I feel dirty for cleaning the floor with Siege just because he caught a bug 🤒

[Frosticus]

On 2/28/2020 at 6:04 AM, Coyote said:

Well, other than Thugs/Storm or Demons/Storm. Although I wonder if this may be contributing to some of the Pylon times that I've seen for those builds....

Quite possibly...

I certainly had degen on my demon/storm. 

If everything was stacking  it beyond the limit then that would indeed be crazy given how many sources you have with hell on earth active.

 

I havent followed interface development closely but wasnt it bugged and not stacking properly for a long time until a recent patch? 

Was it perhaps the recent patch that is allowing it to overstack?

 

Either way, fixes are good, so good find!

playing demon/storm feels like work sometimes, but I have a much better build than I used back then in the works.