Jump to content
Bopper

+HP/+Regen Proc Cheat Sheet

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

Since Power Transfer was introduced with its 3 PPM chance at +5% HP, there has been discussion on which is better Panacea or PT? The answer is, it depends. They work very differently from one another, as PT's heal is 5% of your AT's base hit points (so it will benefit Tankers/Brutes more) whereas Panacea does a 6.7% heal of the general base AT hit points (1070.9 HP) using the Heal Other - Melee modifier (so it benefits Defenders the most).

 

Some things to note,

  • Power Transfer is mechanized to proc only once per cast. However, this functionality appears to actually only proc once at an instance of time. So with an AoE attack, this works as intended: multiple procs from multiple hit targets get reduced to 1 proc as all those multiple procs try to resolve at the same time. However, there are consequences with this mechanic, as you could slot Power Transfer into multiple Auto powers (Stamina, Physical Perfection, Superior Conditioning, etc), but Auto powers are synchronized and a Proc from one will prevent additional procs from others. This figuratively reduces the PT proc's effectiveness by half for each additional proc slotted in an auto power (3 PPM for 1st, 1.5 PPM for 2nd, 0.75 PPM for 3rd, and so on). For chain attacks, multiple PT procs can occur from a single cast, as the jumps do not happen at the same time and/or the jumps are treated as separate casts.
  • The +Regeneration procs in the chart are the Regenerative Tissue +25%, Impervious Skin + 25%, and Numina's Convalescence +20%.
  • This chart will show the amount of HP received from a +HP proc, however +Regeneration works very differently (you get back 5% of your total HP faster, as opposed to getting back a fixed HP at a fixed time-interval/cast). So I scaled the +Regen procs to show the amount of additional HP received in a 20 second interval. I chose this duration because if you slot a +HP proc into an auto power, it will average 1 proc per 20 seconds (both Panacea and P.T. are 3 PPM).
  • Also for +Regen procs, I show the amount of HP per 20 seconds for both the base HP and the max HP for each AT. Since regeneration works off your total hit points, whereas the +HP procs do not, I chose to show the range of values for the +Regen procs.
  • I highlighted in green which proc is the most effective, and I highlighted in yellow which proc is 2nd most effective. There are edge cases where the +25% Regen proc outperforms Panacea, so I wanted to highlight it.
  • Finally, all Heal Other - Melee modifiers were taken from Paragon Wiki...so things could have changed over time. If there is a difference between my chart and what shows in game, let me know and I'll update.

 

image.png.f65bed5e5ace910182df92d6d58a9eee.png

 

 

Update 27 May 2020:

On my original cheat sheet table I showed the equivalent HP per 20 seconds from adding a +Regeneration IO as a means of directly comparing it to the Power Transfer and Panacea procs (the procs fire on average once every 20 seconds in auto powers). I have updated the table to now also show the reverse of that, making the Power Transfer and Panacea procs equivalent to added regeneration. I hope this puts into context how strong these procs can be under various levels of total Hit Points. I highlighted in green whichever IO provided the best return (most HP over time). I highlighted in red the lone exceptions/scenarios where a +HP proc is not superior to a 25% regeneration IO.

 

image.thumb.png.b7e74cd35378b23b3667c9be2b7ba63c.png

Edited by Bopper
  • Like 3
  • Thanks 5


PPM Information Guide                Survivability Tool                  Interface DoT Procs Guide

Time Manipulation Guide             Bopper Builds                      +HP/+Regen Proc Cheat Sheet

Movement Speed: Guide              Recharge Guide                   Base Empowerment: Temp Powers


Bopper's Tools & Formulas           RubyRed's API Tool              Mids' Reborn                       

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice chart, pretty much confirms things I already assumed, buy the outlier cases are actually interesting. But lets not forget even in the outlier cases Panacea has the +endurance component as well so total value, it's pretty much best in slot for health. If you had to pick just one.


I have a Darkness Manipulation Proposal: Let me know what you think!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Snowdaze said:

Nice chart, pretty much confirms things I already assumed, buy the outlier cases are actually interesting. But lets not forget even in the outlier cases Panacea has the +endurance component as well so total value, it's pretty much best in slot for health. If you had to pick just one.

Agreed, but until recently I might have argued the "best to slot for health" claim. For 95% of the time, that is a very true statement, however slotting it in a power like Dark Regeneration or DNA Siphon was awesome. But recently (likely around the time of introducing the PT proc and tweaking how call of the sand man only proc'd once per cast), the Panacea stopped procing in those AoE powers. Very frustrating. 

 

So now that Panacea is bugged in AoEs, I have to say you are 100% right that its best in Health (well...99% perhaps, there might be other cases I'm not thinking of 😄 )



PPM Information Guide                Survivability Tool                  Interface DoT Procs Guide

Time Manipulation Guide             Bopper Builds                      +HP/+Regen Proc Cheat Sheet

Movement Speed: Guide              Recharge Guide                   Base Empowerment: Temp Powers


Bopper's Tools & Formulas           RubyRed's API Tool              Mids' Reborn                       

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Bopper said:

However, there are consequences with this mechanic, as you could slot Power Transfer into multiple Auto powers (Stamina, Physical Perfection, Superior Conditioning, etc), but Auto powers are synchronized and a Proc from one will prevent additional procs from others. This figuratively reduces the PT proc's effectiveness by half for each additional proc slotted in an auto power

Does this effect only procs of the same type? Or all procs put in Auto Powers?  Meaning will slotting a Power Transfer and a Performance Shifter in Stamina ,mean 1 will lose effectiveness?

 

Also nice chart,thank you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, SuperPlyx said:

Does this effect only procs of the same type? Or all procs put in Auto Powers?  Meaning will slotting a Power Transfer and a Performance Shifter in Stamina ,mean 1 will lose effectiveness?

 

Also nice chart,thank you.

Only Power Transfer.

 

And thank you 🙂

 

Edit: by only power transfer, I meant only power transfer has this effect and its against itself. Other procs (not called power transfer) have no effect. Sorry for my vagueness 

Edited by Bopper


PPM Information Guide                Survivability Tool                  Interface DoT Procs Guide

Time Manipulation Guide             Bopper Builds                      +HP/+Regen Proc Cheat Sheet

Movement Speed: Guide              Recharge Guide                   Base Empowerment: Temp Powers


Bopper's Tools & Formulas           RubyRed's API Tool              Mids' Reborn                       

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Bopper said:

Some things to note,

  • Power Transfer is mechanized to proc only once per cast. However, this functionality appears to actually only proc once at an instance of time. So with an AoE attack, this works as intended: multiple procs from multiple hit targets get reduced to 1 proc as all those multiple procs try to resolve at the same time. However, there are consequences with this mechanic, as you could slot Power Transfer into multiple Auto powers (Stamina, Physical Perfection, Superior Conditioning, etc), but Auto powers are synchronized and a Proc from one will prevent additional procs from others. This figuratively reduces the PT proc's effectiveness by half for each additional proc slotted in an auto power (3 PPM for 1st, 1.5 PPM for 2nd, 0.75 PPM for 3rd, and so on). For chain attacks, multiple PT procs can occur from a single cast, as the jumps do not happen at the same time and/or the jumps are treated as separate casts.
2 hours ago, SuperPlyx said:

Does this effect only procs of the same type? Or all procs put in Auto Powers?  Meaning will slotting a Power Transfer and a Performance Shifter in Stamina ,mean 1 will lose effectiveness?

1 hour ago, Bopper said:

Only Power Transfer.

I took the first quote to say that it wasn't worth having more than one Power Transfer (Chance to Heal Self) in multiple Auto powers, as only 1 can proc. This matches what I observed with a Tanker.

 

The next two quotes imply that the Performance Shifter (Chance for +End) also prevents a Power Transfer (Chance to Heal self) (both in the same Auto power) from proccing. Is that true?

 

I may have at least one other slot to play with on one build. I have Auto Quick Recovery with 2 Performance Shifter (Proc & End) and Power Transfer, as well as Stamina with 2 Performance Shifter (Proc & End). It appears I may have invested slots unwisely.

Edited by tidge

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, tidge said:

The next two quotes imply that the Performance Shifter (Chance for +End) also prevents a Power Transfer (Chance to Heal self) (both in the same Auto power) from proccing. Is that true?

The only proc that has diminished returns in auto powers is Power Transfer when there are other Power Transfers slotted. All other procs/IOs have no impact on Power Transfers proc. 

 

The only other known procs that only can proc once per cast are Force Feedback (which doesn't get slotted into an auto) and Call of the Sandman (which doesn't get slotted into an auto). So the behavior I described is strictly a Power Transfer concern, as it also only can proc once per cast, but because auto powers are synchronized with proc ticks, the other autos are effectively being treated as the same cast (thus up to only one proc can trigger).

 

Slot as many Performance Shifters as you want, they can't hurt you.

  • Thanks 2


PPM Information Guide                Survivability Tool                  Interface DoT Procs Guide

Time Manipulation Guide             Bopper Builds                      +HP/+Regen Proc Cheat Sheet

Movement Speed: Guide              Recharge Guide                   Base Empowerment: Temp Powers


Bopper's Tools & Formulas           RubyRed's API Tool              Mids' Reborn                       

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

If you use power transfer in a power like conserve power, consume, or victory rush, does it only have one chance for activation?   Or does it have a chance to trigger during the duration of the power, separately from the passives?

 

Edit:  according to the wiki conserve power will not accept the IO.  I believe the basis of the question still applies.  Also add the interactions with blaster sustains.  

Edited by Brutal Justice

Guardian survivor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Brutal Justice said:

If you use power transfer in a power like conserve power, consume, or victory rush, does it only have one chance for activation?   Or does it have a chance to trigger during the duration of the power, separately from the passives?

 

Edit:  according to the wiki conserve power will not accept the IO.  I believe the basis of the question still applies.  Also add the interactions with blaster sustains.  

I don't know what blaster sustains do, so I'll leave someone else to answer that. You're right, Conserve Power, Energize and other endurance discount powers don't take endurance modification IOs, so Power Tansfer can't be slotted.

 

Consume will only proc Power Transfer up to one time on one cast. But the chance to proc is still checked on each target hit, so you greatly increase your chance of getting that one PT proc.

 

I don't know Victory Rush's mechanics intimately, but I suspect it would trigger only once with PT proc.

 

If anyone is familiar with how Force Feedback works, Power Transfer works the same way (procs only once per cast). It truly is the silliness/bug of autopowers being synchronized causing only one PT proc to fire between all the auto powers at a single instance of time. If the proc was working as intended, the chance to proc between all auto powers would be independent and you could get multiple PT procs during each auto proc tick chance. Until that's fixed, just know autopowers are being treated as one cast of PT, thus only one PT can proc (but with better reliability because you have more autopowers with a chance to proc...it requires all to miss for the proc to not fire).



PPM Information Guide                Survivability Tool                  Interface DoT Procs Guide

Time Manipulation Guide             Bopper Builds                      +HP/+Regen Proc Cheat Sheet

Movement Speed: Guide              Recharge Guide                   Base Empowerment: Temp Powers


Bopper's Tools & Formulas           RubyRed's API Tool              Mids' Reborn                       

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

If the proc was working as intended, the chance to proc between all auto powers would be independent and you could get multiple PT procs during each auto proc tick chance. Until that's fixed, just know autopowers are being treated as one cast of PT, thus only one PT can proc (but with better reliability because you have more autopowers with a chance to proc...it requires all to miss for the proc to not fire)

Out of limited testing with it, I will say that having multiple auto powers slotted came off-the-bat as better long-term results. Even with having two abilities slotted with the PT+Heal proc, there were still activation triggers that failed to fire so it wasn't consistent, but better than just one. Now knowing that part of the problem is that they're eating each other is unfortunate and means that there could have been even greater potential than what we've ended up with. I'm not sure it feels like it'll be worth the extra slot now (when focused on auto's specifically) like I'd been expecting.

 

I will say this does bring into consideration an interesting way to manage further proc development from the dev team. Of the talks about power interactions with procs going forward, having these limited-style trigger locks could give more focused control over proc use (and abuse) moving forward. I'm curious if the flag on the PT+Heal flag to be a one-time fire was intentional, or an unintended side effect of the coding process.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Sir Myshkin said:

Out of limited testing with it, I will say that having multiple auto powers slotted came off-the-bat as better long-term results. Even with having two abilities slotted with the PT+Heal proc, there were still activation triggers that failed to fire so it wasn't consistent, but better than just one. Now knowing that part of the problem is that they're eating each other is unfortunate and means that there could have been even greater potential than what we've ended up with. I'm not sure it feels like it'll be worth the extra slot now (when focused on auto's specifically) like I'd been expecting.

 

I will say this does bring into consideration an interesting way to manage further proc development from the dev team. Of the talks about power interactions with procs going forward, having these limited-style trigger locks could give more focused control over proc use (and abuse) moving forward. I'm curious if the flag on the PT+Heal flag to be a one-time fire was intentional, or an unintended side effect of the coding process.

I think it was an effect of the coding process. Maybe this is how other "one proc only" procs work and this is the first time we've seen the effects of that type of proc in an auto. Perhaps there are toggles that do knockback that could stack, and maybe we'd see dampened effects with multiple force feedback, but that would be a very niche situation.

 

Overall, I'd probably only slot one in an auto...2 at most if there's room. There are cases where even having half the expected value of PT still compares well to slotting up Health for regen. In the end, though, I think an electric armor tank would leverage the proc the best since its lightning field could easily become asynchronized with an auto by re-toggling it whenever you zone in. 

 

Or....if you want to be a psychopath, you could unslot and reslot the PT proc in an auto everytime you load into a new map. You'll make the asynchronized and get the full 3 PPM benefits once again...until your next map load. I dont advise this for anyone, I'm only providing silly game mechanics people could consider.



PPM Information Guide                Survivability Tool                  Interface DoT Procs Guide

Time Manipulation Guide             Bopper Builds                      +HP/+Regen Proc Cheat Sheet

Movement Speed: Guide              Recharge Guide                   Base Empowerment: Temp Powers


Bopper's Tools & Formulas           RubyRed's API Tool              Mids' Reborn                       

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Added new chart to reflect what the +HP proc's equivalent regeneration is as an easy comparison to +Regeneration IOs. This isn't new findings, just a new way of comparing.



PPM Information Guide                Survivability Tool                  Interface DoT Procs Guide

Time Manipulation Guide             Bopper Builds                      +HP/+Regen Proc Cheat Sheet

Movement Speed: Guide              Recharge Guide                   Base Empowerment: Temp Powers


Bopper's Tools & Formulas           RubyRed's API Tool              Mids' Reborn                       

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...