crafting Yellow Salvage Prices

[Bionic_Flea]

1 hour ago, Heraclea said:

For what?

WinterOs can also be made Superior  --  Avalanche, Winter's Bite, Blistering Cold, Entomb, Frozen Blast.  And most of my builds have several full sets.

 

You can buy whatever IO as pre-attuned on the market and it's the exact same price as the equivalent non-attuned IO.  That saves you a catalyst.  Even if you don't use WinterOs, you could still sell them for about 3 million each.

 

And I understand what you are saying about getting a lucky drop at a low level.  But you could put that on the market for the going rate and buy the same one attuned at that same going rate.

 

[Sir Myshkin]

18 hours ago, Heraclea said:

I use them regularly.   There are many IOs that I regularly craft and use like Panacea, Stealth procs, Miracles, and so forth that leveling characters benefit strongly from, but the ones in base are level 50s.   I also try to build 'whole game' characters, since the odds are good that weekly TFs cap below 50 too, and I want my set bonuses working when exemped.   Catalysts further these goals; they're not just for ATOs.  Catalysts are also costly when bought with merits, but each 50 gets a free one just for playing.  So I rotate my 50s (have 18) to claim catalysts which I stockpile in base.  I use one or two 'odd' merits (anything not a multiple of 20 or 50) to buy unslotters, and the rest to buy converters for crafted drop roulette.   So I catalyze and unslot an IO, then catalyze a fresh one at 50.  

Excluding my last two builds I ran (as a test of cost), I generally just buy the entire build attuned through the auction house somewhere between level 40 and 45. To an extent maybe that sounds a bit "Inf Elitist" or something, but, honestly it's just easy to get the funds with a bit of effort, so I've never found it really all that taxing.

 

The last two characters I hit 50 on I tried doing things a bit different as a general experiment, and primarily funded them through just crafting out what recipes they earned and flipping some for good stuff, and selling others for the raw INF as necessary. By the time the character rolled 50 I went through and used Catalysts on the entire build. For the first one I did this with I pulled all the Catalysts I'd naturally earned across multiple 50's, for the second one I just straight-up purchased the lot off the Auction House. Given that I'd earned/made enough INF to start just buying items, I only ended up needing 33 total Catalysts on the second one. I just couldn't even consider the idea of forcing myself to log in to every 50, every day to collect a Catalyst. I guess INF vs. Time.

 

As for Merits, the only thing, and I mean the only thing I buy with Merits are Converters, and nothing else. There's not a single thing that has the INF to Unit ratio that Converters have. Occasionally there's random spikes where Boosters get some decent return, but they're just not as consistent (and in demand) as Converters. If I end up with any kind of Merit surplus after a character's build is complete, I just cash out the Merits through Converters and ship up the INF to my e-mail for another build project.

17 hours ago, Bionic_Flea said:

Wait . . . don't you use catalysts on ATOs and WinterOs?  I do that on every character when it hits 50 and since I like WinterOs so much I need 18-36 catalysts per character.  So while I don't actively log in my 50s daily like Heraclea, I do periodically dump all my catalysts in a base storage bin for the next 50 to use.

 

P.S. I never use a catalyst on an "ordinary" set IO.  I'll just buy one already attuned from the market.  If I want a low level proc, I'll just buy the low level proc (or the recipe).

I catalyze everything (Set IOs, AT-O's, WO's) save the rare exception of a Boosted IO as necessary (something I usually end up skipping because... meh, small gains); I don't rely on the Catalyst drops to do it, and just buy the necessary Catalysts. For Winter O's, those, well, no, I don't really bulk up on them. Maybe one or two sets of 5 for an occasional +5% S/L Def or something, but in a lot of my Proc Monster builds, I just end up using two (Acc/Dam and Acc/Dam/End or Dam/End) with a Catalyst because of the enhanced value is as good as +5'ing a 50 IO of the same coverage, but is easier. Yes, I'm using a 30million INF IO because it was easier than +5'ing the equivalent in a set IO that would've been substantially cheaper and I'm aware of that.

 

Most of my earned Catalysts just kind of sit there, don't even bother selling them strangely enough. Having such a huge pile of them unintentionally is why I experimented with a "build as you go, catalyze at goal" style process. It was significantly cheaper, of course, but a bit more time consuming in process.

[Hardship]

I have been accumulating a few catalysts on my level 50. I did not until THIS moment realize that the drop was limited to 1 per day per level 50. <mind blown>

 

[THEDarkTyger]

On 3/11/2020 at 3:40 PM, Yomo Kimyata said:

I do want to say that as a long-time flipper, first-time caller, I'm a little hurt by this.  I can't speak for WoW, but flippers are the unheralded saviors of a player-based economy.  You can buy a near infinite amount of rare salvage at 1mm and you can sell an infinite amount at 5k.  But who is enabling you to buy it cheaper or sell it for a better price?  Flippers

Either you think we're stupid or you don't know what flipping is. Flippers are why we CAN'T buy cheaper...

[THEDarkTyger]

On 3/11/2020 at 5:23 PM, MunkiLord said:

Look, you're allowed to be wrong. What flippers do is normalize the price. The floor is higher, but the ceiling is lower. 

Don't see how you logic out that absurd conclusion. If the floor is higher, the ceiling tends to rise in sync. Either way, though, the "floor" is only higher because the flippers are artificially raising it, which only benefits them. And it's only really higher for non-flippers.

Edited March 15, 2020 by THEDarkTyger

[Vyx]

In all honesty, the people dropping the price to extremely low prices to make money off the price drop are the ones who are the jerks. The price for yellow salvage should be about 20-50k. The game is already extremely easy I don't see how this is a problem.

 

Also pretty gross of the OP to somehow act like people who are rude online must be "poor" people. wtf.

[THEDarkTyger]

10 minutes ago, Vyx said:

In all honesty, the people dropping the price to extremely low prices to make money off the price drop are the ones who are the jerks.

How do you figure anyone's making money by pushing the prices DOWN?! WTF kind of warped logic leads you there?

 

10 minutes ago, Vyx said:

The price for yellow salvage should be about 20-50k.

Why? Because you say so? It's clear if you watch the market that's not the "natural" range for the prices. It tends to jump up there every few days and slowly creep back down. That makes it plainly obvious that there's price manipulation going on.

 

  

10 minutes ago, Vyx said:

The game is already extremely easy I don't see how this is a problem.

....because most people don't have dozens of hours a week to spend just inf farming just to be able to craft basic recipes?

Edited March 15, 2020 by THEDarkTyger

[Vyx]

4 minutes ago, THEDarkTyger said:

How do you figure anyone's making money by pushing the prices DOWN?! WTF kind of warped logic leads you there?

 

If the price of an item is 1mil regularly, and someone starts selling a bunch at 500k undercutting the price of everyone else- they make money by undercutting the market with a substantially lower price. A price that has no reason to be lowered due to how easy it is to make money in this game and how low the market is compared to live already. It screws over everyone else selling just so one person can make a quick few extra bucks.

Edited March 15, 2020 by Vyx

[THEDarkTyger]

5 minutes ago, Vyx said:

If the price of an item is 1mil regularly, and someone starts selling a bunch at 500k undercutting the price of everyone else- they make money by undercutting the market with a substantially lower price. A price that has no reason to be lowered due to how easy it is to make money in this game and how low the market is compared to live already. It screws over everyone else selling just so one person can make a quick few extra bucks.

Again, most players don't have dozens of hours a week to spend farming inf. So it's not easy to make money for them.

 

And the guy selling at half market value is LOSING money... 🙄 If the item is moving instantly at 500k as opposed to 1mil, guess what? 1mil isn't the market value! Even if the bids he wins are 1mil bids, everything else is listed HIGHER and not moving because they've listed too high. That's how the market works.

Edited March 15, 2020 by THEDarkTyger

[Vyx]

1 minute ago, THEDarkTyger said:

Again, most players don't have dozens of hours a week to spend farming inf. So it's not easy to make money for them.

 

And the guy selling at half market value is LOSING money... 🙄

If you're getting salvage from drops, you're still making money. But yes, they  do cause EVERYONE ELSE to make LESS from theirs, as that is the point of undercutting the market. This is why in industries in real life, competitors have general agreements as to what their prices should be set at so they aren't undercutting each other. Also if you think you need to be spending hours farming to make money in this game then you are playing wrong. Making money in Homecoming is extremely easy. You can have a few mil at lvl 8 just by doing a Posi TF and using the merits for converters. Requires no farming at all.

[THEDarkTyger]

2 minutes ago, Vyx said:

If you're getting salvage from drops, you're still making money. But yes, they  do cause EVERYONE ELSE to make LESS from theirs, as that is the point of undercutting the market.

Supply and demand. If it's not moving at what people list it at, then it's not worth what they're listing it at.

2 minutes ago, Vyx said:

This is why in industries in real life, competitors have general agreements as to what their prices should be set at so they aren't undercutting each other.

You know that there are laws against that IRL when it's too blatant, right? But, hey, screw the customers, eh? Now, there are also laws against big companies getting together to sell certain vital goods below cost to drive small businesses out of business, but that doesn't apply here. No matter what you sell your drops at, it's all profit.

4 minutes ago, Vyx said:

You can have a few mil at lvl 8 just by doing a Posi TF and using the merits for converters. Requires no farming at all.

That would be "farming"... Just not AE farming. And that's nowhere near efficient enough to keep up with the inflation the flippers are creating.

[THEDarkTyger]

So "easy" to make money that some people feel they have to manipulate the AH to do it, amirite! 🙄

[Vyx]

4 minutes ago, THEDarkTyger said:

Supply and demand. If it's not moving at what people list it at, then it's not worth what they're listing it at.

You know that there are laws against that IRL when it's too blatant, right? But, hey, screw the customers, eh? Now, there are also laws against big companies getting together to sell certain vital goods below cost to drive small businesses out of business, but that doesn't apply here. No matter what you sell your drops at, it's all profit.

That would be "farming"... Just not AE farming. And that's nowhere near efficient enough to keep up with the inflation the flippers are creating.

Ok, I don't know why you're being so rude. 

1) Undercutting the market for your own personal short term profits, screwing over the rest of the public trying to sell their stuff for a fair price is not supply and demand- it is blatant market manipulation. That's why the prices go up- supply and demand. Then eventually someone manipulates the market by unloading a ton for barely anything and crashes the price for their own short little profit.

2) DOING A TASK FORCE AND PLAYING THE CONTENT OF A GAME IS NOT FARMING. It's an example of how you DON'T have to farm to make millions in this game . You will make plenty enough just simply playing a bit of content.

Edited March 15, 2020 by Vyx

[THEDarkTyger]

4 minutes ago, Vyx said:

1) Undercutting the market for your own personal short term profits, screwing over the rest of the public trying to sell their stuff for a fair price is not supply and demand- it is blatant market manipulation. That's why the prices go up- supply and demand. Then eventually someone manipulates the market by unloading a ton for barely anything and crashes the price for their own short little profit.

The market determines the "fair" price. If stuff isn't moving at the higher price, that's not a "fair" price. And, no, if the manipulation was "driving the prices down" it'd be a rapid crash. Instead we see SPIKES and then gradual declines. That indicates the exact opposite of the problem you're claiming. Also, lower prices benefit more than just the guys dumping at low prices. It's good for the buyers too.

 

Consistent patterns show that you're trying to push off the problem as "normal" and normal as the problem...

 

7 minutes ago, Vyx said:

2) DOING A TASK FORCE AND PLAYING THE CONTENT OF A GAME IS NOT FARMING. It's an example of how you DON'T have to farm to make millions in this game . You will make plenty enough just simply playing a bit of content.

Running them repeatedly to make inf IS farming. Hugely inefficient farming and nowhere near enough to meet the inflation flippers are creating, yet again. It's a laughable "solution" to the problem of not having enough inf, as it's actually barely better than just soloing story arcs. I'm not talking making a couple million. I'm talking about prices getting jacked up to where you need HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS. That is a direct result of flippers.

 

Again, if making inf was as trivial as you're trying to lie it into being, then why do people feel the need to build fire farm alts and stand around in AE missions all day to fund their builds? Why aren't they "just playing content" to do it? Why are some feeling the need to manipulate the market to make inf?

 

Oh, yeah. Because it's not that trivial unless you set out with the specific goal of making inf above all else. If it was so easy to make inf just by playing the game normally, every AE wouldn't be packed with fire farmers all day every day.

[Bionic_Flea]

35 minutes ago, THEDarkTyger said:

Why? Because you say so? It's clear if you watch the market that's not the "natural" range for the prices. It tends to jump up there every few days and slowly creep back down. That makes it plainly obvious that there's price manipulation going on.

 

The minimum price for yellow salvage is 1 (lowest possible bid).  The maximum price is 100,000 (dev seeded salvage price).  In between those two points whatever a buyer and a seller agree to exchange IS the market price, by definition.

 

If you aren't willing to pay whatever the going rate of the minute is you have a few options: 1) Place a lower bid and walk away.  A reasonable but low bid will fill, sometimes even a bid of 1 will work but those are rare for anything but common salvage.  2) Buy the crafted item that you needed the salvage for.  It may be a better value to pay 500k for the crafted IO than 50K for yellow salvage plus crafting costs.  3) Beat up a few guys in AE.  For 80 tickets you can pick whatever yellow salvage you want.  4) Use brainstorms to craft random salvage at a work table (1 for common, 5 for uncommon, 20 for rare).  Brainstorms come in super packs and I think they drop if you have a certain day job power.  4) Just play the game and wait until you get the drop you want.

[THEDarkTyger]

18 minutes ago, Vyx said:

Ok, I don't know why you're being so rude. 

And I'm being so "rude" because you're trying to flip the table and make the normal players look like the greedy ones and play up the flippers as somehow being heroes and victims of those evil, evil plebs just trying to play the game normally and not have to spend hours a day farming or manipulating the market themselves just to keep up...

[THEDarkTyger]

3 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

The minimum price for yellow salvage is 1 (lowest possible bid).  The maximum price is 100,000 (dev seeded salvage price).  In between those two points whatever a buyer and a seller agree to exchange IS the market price, by definition.

You know that argument works against what Vyx said, too, right?

[Vyx]

1 minute ago, THEDarkTyger said:

And I'm being so "rude" because you're trying to flip the table and make the normal players look like the greedy ones and play up the flippers as somehow being heroes and victims of those evil, evil plebs just trying to play the game normally and not have to spend hours a day farming or manipulating the market themselves just to keep up...

Jesus, is there a block feature on these forums? Please stop quoting me. it's like trying to talk to a wall.

 

I NEVER said you had to run TF's repeatedly to earn money in the game. I literally said it takes just one Post 1 tf to get millions and then you're set to make money.

Edited March 15, 2020 by Vyx

[Bionic_Flea]

1 minute ago, THEDarkTyger said:

You know that argument works against what Vyx said, too, right?

 

Yeah, Vyx is wrong.  Selling at a lower price isn't price manipulation, it's competition.

[Vyx]

1 minute ago, Bionic_Flea said:

 

Yeah, Vyx is wrong.  Selling at a lower price isn't price manipulation, it's competition.

I didn't say selling at simply a lower price. I said crashing the price by selling at a much lower price is very clear manipulation that undercuts the price of everyone else- which is why the prices keep dropping so quickly.

[Obus Form]

1 hour ago, THEDarkTyger said:

Either you think we're stupid or you don't know what flipping is. Flippers are why we CAN'T buy cheaper...

Here Comes A New Challenger!

 

 

Edited March 15, 2020 by Obus Form

[THEDarkTyger]

2 minutes ago, Vyx said:

it's like trying to talk to a wall.

You're right. I feel like I'm talking to a wall.

 

2 minutes ago, Vyx said:

I NEVER said you had to run TF's repeatedly to earn money in the game. I literally said it takes just one Post 1 tf to get millions and then you're set to make money.

1 Posi TF isn't going to make enough inf to keep up with the market gouging. It's absurd to the point of being a flat out lie for you to suggest it is. 🙄 "Oh, just grab a part time job at McDonald's! That'll be enough to pay your rent!"

[THEDarkTyger]

1 minute ago, Vyx said:

I didn't say selling at simply a lower price. I said crashing the price by selling at a much lower price is very clear manipulation that undercuts the price of everyone else- which is why the prices keep dropping so quickly.

THEY ARE NOT DROPPING QUICKLY! They're spiking UP quickly, then creeping back down over the course of days before they suddenly spike again.

[Vyx]

1 minute ago, THEDarkTyger said:

You're right. I feel like I'm talking to a wall.

 

1 Posi TF isn't going to make enough inf to keep up with the market gouging. It's absurd to the point of being a flat out lie for you to suggest it is. 🙄 "Oh, just grab a part time job at McDonald's! That'll be enough to pay your rent!"

If you can't make anything off of a few mil at level 8, and feel you need to farm, then you aren't playing correctly. Because the content of just playing the game regularly is PLENTY. As illustrated by my example of a short tf that will get you plenty for all your low level needs. Quit twisting what I've said from the beginning.

Edited March 15, 2020 by Vyx

[THEDarkTyger]

Just now, Vyx said:

If you can't make anything off of a few mil at level 8, and feel you need to farm, then you aren't playing correctly. BEcause the content of just playing the game regularly is PLENTY. Quit twisting what I've said from the beginning.

Just stop talking, you're embarrassing yourself. That couple million inf at level 8 isn't going to last long. You realize you don't stay level 8 forever, right? In fact, you're well above that by the time you come out of the TF... What you're saying is like saying an adult should be able to pay their bills off what they made for allowance as a kid because, hey, $20 a week was a lot of money back then!