issue 26 Patch Notes for March 3rd, 2020

[Abraxus]

18 minutes ago, barrier said:

Address the content more in your posts. It's not a huge leap. Thunderspy fails by ignoring the cross-talk between various changes. Homecoming had kinda been good about this, but things like the power boost -special nerf (shelved my Demons/Cold MM, I can't slow in PVP at all anymore - which it did prior to the PB nerf), and this change, make me think that either Powerhouse is ignoring MM players or thinking that minor AI changes will solve major issues like LRM having a 4 minute recharge on Mercs, slow pets that can't keep up with players in PVP or the fact that he removed a significant source of +to-hit for non-nature MMs, Changes like these are making me think that cross-talk is starting to be ignored.

 

Oh, and if you don't think there are any issues with the AT, please look at the March 2020 stats and try to find an AT that has such a huge chasm between "characters created" and "characters at 50".

 

I believe they are doing the best they can to stay on top of issues, and that if we keep our expectations realistic, and have a little faith that they are acting with the best of intentions, we won't be disappointed. 

For the record, I played a few MM back on live, and I found it to be far more work than other archetypes, and as a result, I didn't enjoy playing them as much as other types.  That might be a feeling shared by many other players, and could be a more realistic explanation for the low numbers for MM players overall.

Edited March 5, 2020 by Abraxus

[barrier]

1 minute ago, Abraxus said:

I believe they are doing the best they can to stay on top of issues, and that if we keep our expectations realistic, and have a little faith that they are acting with the best of intentions, we won't be disappointed. 

For the record, I played a few MM back on live, and I found it to be far more work than other archetypes, and as a result, I didn't enjoy playing them as much as other types.  That might be a feeling shared by many other players, and could be a more realistic explanation for the low numbers for MM players overall.

I still find it problematic. There is no reason Masterminds should be less represented (in both PVE and PVP) than any other archetype. It's even more obvious in PVP where ROI is more important than difficulty... you can literally log into the pvp discord and ask an MM question and someone will immediately tag the 3 remaining MM PVPers in the game for answers. I don't think that's ok.

Unless the shrinking population of MM PVPers is an intentional part of the nerfs noted above, some buffs are in order (Demons casting forge? Bots casting Fort? Thugs tactics applying to the MM? Mercs not being trash for 4 minutes after 30 seconds of being spawned)...

[Abraxus]

2 hours ago, barrier said:

I still find it problematic. There is no reason Masterminds should be less represented (in both PVE and PVP) than any other archetype. It's even more obvious in PVP where ROI is more important than difficulty... you can literally log into the pvp discord and ask an MM question and someone will immediately tag the 3 remaining MM PVPers in the game for answers. I don't think that's ok.

Unless the shrinking population of MM PVPers is an intentional part of the nerfs noted above, some buffs are in order (Demons casting forge? Bots casting Fort? Thugs tactics applying to the MM? Mercs not being trash for 4 minutes after 30 seconds of being spawned)...

I don't believe anyone is being intentionally marginalized.  I DO believe that if the reporting of the issue(s) are handled through correct channels, they will eventually be dealt with.  The Devs are dealing with an entire game, and they can only address so much of it at a time.  Again, patience, and realistic expectations, combined with dialog on the issue reporting threads will go a long way.

Edited March 5, 2020 by Abraxus

[Apparition]

I can't speak to MM PvP as I don't PvP, but in regards to MM PvE, there are a few reasons why you don't see many level 50 MMs, none of which have anything to do with the removal of build-up IOs proccing on players.

 

Mastermind is my favorite archetype in the game, and was my first level 50 character on Homecoming.  I've since retired that character for the same reasons I stopped playing Masterminds on live.

 

1.  Bugs.  Mastermind pets have serious issues with doors and elevators.  I would have to routinely dismiss all of my pets twice, resummons (ugh, spell-checker keeps adding an s at the end) them, and then re-equip and re-upgrade them because the pets keep getting stuck at doors and elevators.  Especially in laboratory maps and in the Tin Mage TF.

 

2. The pets' lack of Super Speed.  My friends and I are speed runners, and the pets simply can not keep up.  I was routinely stuck at the beginning of maps and would have to clear my way through, while everyone else was at the end of the map and taking on the AV.  The mission would finish before I would be halfway there.

[Doc_Scorpion]

1 hour ago, barrier said:

There is no reason Masterminds should be less represented (in both PVE and PVP) than any other archetype.

- They're much more difficult to play than any other archetype.
- They're often not welcome on teams because pets block doorways.  (This has been fixed on Beta, but not yet patched to Live.)
- They often have problems in higher level content, and require a fairly skilled and dedicated player to overcome this.

So, yes, there's reasons for MM's to be less popular.

And going back and looking closely at the overall numbers in the recent statistics:  They're routinely at the bottom of the top (or the top of the bottom)...  (That is, when they aren't comfortably within the top band.)  They're not actually the poor, lonely, neglected, archetype you're trying to portray.  They're actually better off than you might think despite their disadvantages.
 

1 hour ago, barrier said:

you can literally log into the pvp discord and ask an MM question and someone will immediately tag the 3 remaining MM PVPers in the game for answers.

Neither Discord nor these forums can be considered in any way representative of the playerbase at large.  They're a self-selected minority.

[Tater Todd]

21 hours ago, barrier said:

This is a huge nerf to MM's in PVP and I am 95% certain that the original devs noted that BU proc'ing on both players and pets was the intended effect. It was on the boards at around the time purple sets were released.

I am so confused...The Devs just fixed the proc.  For the longest time the Proc was only firing on the pet and benefiting the pet.  The way the proc has been recently behaving was a bug and was unintentional.  Are you saying that you want to proc to give build up to you and the pet?  That's definitely something that needs it's own thread.  The patch notes here are only listing fixes and changes that were dropped this current patch.

 

[barrier]

17 hours ago, Tater Todd said:

I am so confused...The Devs just fixed the proc.  For the longest time the Proc was only firing on the pet and benefiting the pet.  The way the proc has been recently behaving was a bug and was unintentional.  Are you saying that you want to proc to give build up to you and the pet?  That's definitely something that needs it's own thread.  The patch notes here are only listing fixes and changes that were dropped this current patch.

 

That's actually not true. I've been using the BU proc on myself since back on live. It's been a major feature in almost 10 of my MM builds (I collect MM's for PVP). Prior to the nef, the BU proc would proc on both you and the pets. It stopped proc'ing on pets after Homecoming devs fixed it to prevent it from proc'ing on pseudo-pets and them observing the behavior on players is what made the developers think of nerfing the proc.

[SwitchFade]

37 minutes ago, barrier said:

That's actually not true. I've been using the BU proc on myself since back on live. It's been a major feature in almost 10 of my MM builds (I collect MM's for PVP). Prior to the nef, the BU proc would proc on both you and the pets. It stopped proc'ing on pets after Homecoming devs fixed it to prevent it from proc'ing on pseudo-pets and them observing the behavior on players is what made the developers think of nerfing the proc.

It was never intended, nor was it ever stated by a Dev, that the design intent was a build up effect for a 5 second duration be applied to BOTH the character and the pet, upon summoning said pet. If it ever were behaving thusly it was a bug.

 

Further, MM's have access to a considerable self BU effect that many other toons don't, especially solo, tactics+Gausian's. An MM with full summons has a significantly higher occurence of BU, due to that mechanic.

[barrier]

3 minutes ago, SwitchFade said:

It was never intended, nor was it ever stated by a Dev, that the design intent was a build up effect for a 5 second duration be applied to BOTH the character and the pet, upon summoning said pet. If it ever were behaving thusly it was a bug.

 

Further, MM's have access to a considerable self BU effect that many other toons don't, especially solo, tactics+Gausian's. An MM with full summons has a significantly higher occurence of BU, due to that mechanic.

I'll do a search through the old archives at some point but I'm pretty sure that came up during i11 beta testing for purple sets (remember all the PVPers on test team rosters got invites to the closed betas on live; I remember picking this up immediately on test when re-building my second pvp ladder toon, a ninja/poison mm which was only viable back then with that proc given how hard it was to get proper accuracy bonuses on a +hp build without these new ATOs). I just hope that the dev comments made it to the open boards.

 

I don't know how begin addressing your comment about MM's and to-hit buffs. Every single AT out there has more access to to-hit buffs than MM's - with the exception of maybe controllers. It's really all relative. Masterminds get less, right? Care to address that without resorting to "intent" narratives?

 

In addition to that, the Gaussian BU proc is close to useless in any situation where you need a to-hit buff prior to firing either a debuff or a heavy-hitting attack. Those situations abound in PVP, especially since direct pet damage and pet debuffs are kinda useless given how slow pets are.

[SwitchFade]

Just now, barrier said:

I'll do a search through the old archives at some point but I'm pretty sure that came up during i11 beta testing for purple sets (remember all the PVPers on test team rosters got invites to the closed betas on live; I remember picking this up immediately on test when re-building my second pvp ladder toon, a ninja/poison mm which was only viable back then with that proc given how hard it was to get proper accuracy bonuses on a +hp build without these new ATOs). I just hope that the dev comments made it to the open boards.

 

I don't know how begin addressing your comment about MM's and to-hit buffs. Every single AT out there has more access to to-hit buffs than MM's - with the exception of maybe controllers. It's really all relative. Masterminds get less, right? Care to address that without resorting to "intent" narratives?

 

In addition to that, the Gaussian BU proc is close to useless in any situation where you need a to-hit buff prior to firing either a debuff or a heavy-hitting attack. Those situations abound in PVP, especially since direct pet damage and pet debuffs are kinda useless given how slow pets are.

I see your perspective on PVP behavior, which may be valid. However, PVE behavior was, and is, exactly as I mentioned. As to MM's having better to-hit in PVP? Sure, I'm all for a thoughtful comprehensive review and discussion, so a case can be submitted to the Dev team. That is irrespective of the io, it's design and bugs with it.

 

Perhaps a new suggestion thread is in order?

[Guardian]

Since the patch and the hotfix, I have been getting 'lost connection to server' many many times each playsession.

 

[Vyx]

The new chain power borders look amazing! I love these types of quality of life updates! ❤️

[Reikou]

On 3/3/2020 at 6:44 AM, The Curator said:

Chain powers now have a unique border, courtesy of @GuyPerfect:

• Beam Rifle (Sentinel)
  •  Refractor Beam

Is there a reason that Refractor Beam is being displayed erroneously as a chain power?

Refractor Beam functions as a Fireball, not a chain power.

 

While the new art is certainly appreciated, it doesn't fit to the powers functionality.

 

 

 

Edited April 12, 2020 by Reikou