I am in a dither....

[hejtmane]

You guys missed the old days I had a DM/DA starting in i2  he was not my main katana/sr perma elude was anyways back until ed hit cloak of fear was way better it was a mag 3 fear.  A lot of people after we got stacking armors in i3 started calling dm/da scrap trollers back because of the mag 3 and stacking tof on top.  Later after ed etc I tested  the cof, present pool and tof and it sucked the game play was terrible; i personally hated the game play it was no where on par or close to I3 play of scraptroller.

[Tugzug]

Yeah, I don't think there's a single bad set in this game that has "Dark" in it's name. Dark Blast maybe, but you can proc load it and it works just fine. Lots of folk seem to get a bad impression before they really get to know a set though...

[WillParkinson]

On 3/12/2020 at 5:25 PM, Obus Form said:

Hey @WillParkinson

 

Attached below is a build that achieves almost 45% defense to S/L.  I put this build together making several assumptions (see below) and how my build will meet your assumptions.  If the assumptions are wrong, the build can be updated.  If there are several assumptions or choices you don't understand, feel free to ask me/the forum =).  No shame to ask.  The only shame is to assume without understanding why.

 

Assumptions

1) You wanted Dark Melee/Dark Armour for a scrapper, capable of soloing +4/8 missions, therefore you inadvertently need 45% S/L softcapped defenses.  You want to Fly.

2) Convenience.  You want defensive powers that you don't have to manage (click), and specifically are on always.  This is important because there were several design choices made to give you this Convenience. 

3) Assuming assumptions 1) and 2) are met, you want recharge

4) Assuming assumptions 1) 2) and 3) are met, you want damage

 

Choice reasoning:

- Assumptions from 1) are met except 45% S/L defense softcap.  45% is the softcap goal, but I am at 44.8%.  It is very close and good enough to solo +4/8 but not the same as 45%.  We are at 44.8% because I assume you do not want to switch from Fly to Hover everytime you are in combat.  Hover gives you that extra defense to reach 45%.  You can easily switch from Flying to Hovering if you are okay using a macro to swap between those 2 powers.  However, given your post count and depth of the question, I assume you have not used macros yet or may not feel comfortable using them/making macros, and want the powers to just "keep you safe" without management.

- Assumption 2) Convenience.  As per above, for the sake of you not having to change between Fly and Hover, I chose to slot your powers in such a way that does not require the Defense buff from Hover.  All your other defensive powers are automatic, except your heal (see the playstyle expanation below). 

- Assumption 2) Convenience.  I assume you do not want to micro manage your endurance gain.  As such I chose to take as much passive Endurance recovery as possible.  Please get the accolades Portal Jockey and Atlas Medallion.

- Assumption 3) Recharge.  You do not have enough Recharge to get perma hasten because the slotting and Enhancement choices are made to reach the 45% S/L defense soft cap.  You have 133.8% recharge, which is about 17 seconds away from perma hasten.  You will need to +5 (enhancement boost) your 2 recharge enhancements in Hasten

- Assumption 4) Damage. Having met the above 3 assumptions, everything else is just gravy.  The Scrapper IOs are slotted to maxmize the journey to reaching 45% S/L defense softcap, and the other scrapper IO (global crit) is used.   This also means for your incarnate powers, Alpha slot, you will get Musculature Radial Paragon.  This helps your damage and Endurance Recovery.

 

Playstyle:

- Set Hasten to autocast.  Ctrl + Click on Hasten to do this.  You will see a green circle.

- When you run into a group of mobs, and they are within 10 feet of you, press SOUL DRAIN to boost your damage for 30 seconds.  The power recharges in 37 seconds so... its up every group or 2nd group of enemies.

- When you are low on health, stand near an enemy and use Dark Regeneration. 

- If you just want to top up your health, use Siphon life, which is already part of your normal attack chain.

- The one thing you have to understand is Cascading Defence Failure.  If you do not understand it yet, please look it up on the forums.  It essentially means you cannot stand there eating Defense debuffs (from AVs such as Positron).  You have to allow time to let those debuffs fall off you, or use Incarnate power Barrier, or eat Purple Candy.

- Lastly, This build costs approx 600-800 million influence.  If you need funding or want to learn how to make money, ask.

 

 

 

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Dark Melee
Secondary Power Set: Dark Armor
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Smite -- SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg(A), SprScrStr-Dmg/Rchg(37), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), TchofDth-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37), TchofDth-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39)
Level 1: Dark Embrace -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(3), UnbGrd-ResDam(3), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(5), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(5)
Level 2: Death Shroud -- SprScrStr-Rchg/+Crit(A), SprScrStr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(9), ScrDrv-Dmg/EndRdx(9), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg(11)
Level 4: Murky Cloud -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(15), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(15), UnbGrd-ResDam(17), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(17)
Level 6: Fly -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 8: Siphon Life -- SprCrtStr-Rchg/+50% Crit(A), SprCrtStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), SprCrtStr-Acc/Dmg(40), SprCrtStr-Dmg/Rchg(40), SprCrtStr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), SprCrtStr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 10: Obsidian Shield -- UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(19), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(19), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(21)
Level 12: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 14: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(21), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(23), UnbGrd-Max HP%(23)
Level 16: Cross Punch -- Arm-Dam%(A), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(40), Arm-Acc/Rchg(42), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(43), Arm-Dmg(43)
Level 18: Dark Regeneration -- Prv-Absorb%(A), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(45), Prv-Heal/Rchg(46), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(46), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(46), Prv-Heal(48)
Level 20: Cloak of Darkness -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-Def(25), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(27), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(31), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 22: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-Def(25), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(33), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(33), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(33)
Level 24: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-Def(27), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(29), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(29), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 26: Tactics -- AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx(A), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(45), AdjTrg-EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 28: Soul Drain -- Obl-%Dam(A), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(48), Obl-Dmg(48), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(50), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(50), Obl-Acc/Rchg(50)
Level 30: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(34)
Level 32: Midnight Grasp -- SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(34), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(36)
Level 35: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 38: Soul Transfer -- DctWnd-Rchg(A)
Level 41: Physical Perfection -- PrfShf-EndMod(A)
Level 44: Hover -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(39), Rct-ResDam%(34)
Level 47: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 49: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(11), Mrc-Rcvry+(13)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(13)
Level 50: Musculature Radial Paragon
Level 50: Barrier Core Epiphany
Level 50: Assault Radial Embodiment
------------

 

 

 

 

 

@Obus Form

 

A question, if you don't mind. If you were making the build for 'perfection', how would you make it? Skip powers like fly, etc. Just the best that best can be kind of thing.

 

Thank you!

 

[Obus Form]

8 hours ago, WillParkinson said:

@Obus Form

 

A question, if you don't mind. If you were making the build for 'perfection', how would you make it? Skip powers like fly, etc. Just the best that best can be kind of thing.

 

Thank you!

 

If I may, and let me know if you mean, to re-interpret your "perfection" as "optimization", then microscope the interpretation of "optimization" to mean "optimization for PVE level 54 content". 

 

Edit:

Do you need to stay within Dark Melee/Dark Armour? 

Edited March 17, 2020 by Obus Form

[WillParkinson]

56 minutes ago, Obus Form said:

If I may, and let me know if you mean, to re-interpret your "perfection" as "optimization", then microscope the interpretation of "optimization" to mean "optimization for PVE level 54 content". 

 

Edit:

Do you need to stay within Dark Melee/Dark Armour? 

As I've never done level 54 content, I have to say I am intrigued. That said, no, it doesn't need to stay in DM/DA. I want something I can have fun with, though I would still prefer to not have a click met protection, because I'm forever screwing that up.

[Obus Form]

7 minutes ago, WillParkinson said:

As I've never done level 54 content, I have to say I am intrigued. That said, no, it doesn't need to stay in DM/DA. I want something I can have fun with, though I would still prefer to not have a click met protection, because I'm forever screwing that up.

When I saw level 54 content, I mean level 54 PI missions, and not iTrials, which are like level 54 (+3).

 

Did you want anything to remain dark?  I personally recommend something like Super Strength/Dark Armor, or Spines/Dark Armor

[WillParkinson]

Just now, Obus Form said:

When I saw level 54 content, I mean level 54 PI missions, and not iTrials, which are like level 54 (+3).

 

Did you want anything to remain dark?  I personally recommend something like Super Strength/Dark Armor, or Spines/Dark Armor

I'm a little confused. I don't see Super Strength as an option for scrappers. Am I missing something? 

[Troo]

https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Scrapper

[Obus Form]

My bad, no SS for scrappers.

 

Spines/Dark Armour is an AOE set.  Standing there does AOE damage to foes, but you're not as strong in the single target department

[WillParkinson]

39 minutes ago, Obus Form said:

My bad, no SS for scrappers.

 

Spines/Dark Armour is an AOE set.  Standing there does AOE damage to foes, but you're not as strong in the single target department

I’m going to be honest. Most of the time I solo, especially on a scrapper. I’d love to be able to do it all (jack of all trades type) who can solo AVs or do higher end group content. If I had to choose, I would go with the group content, though.

 

That said, what other options might you suggest? (I am keeping Spines/DA open, because it sounds cool.)

[Call Me Awesome]

On 3/17/2020 at 6:12 PM, WillParkinson said:

As I've never done level 54 content, I have to say I am intrigued. That said, no, it doesn't need to stay in DM/DA. I want something I can have fun with, though I would still prefer to not have a click met protection, because I'm forever screwing that up.

Click Mez can be a problem because then you'll have to manually fire off Hasten but I always set the Mez shield to auto so I don't have to worry about it, it'll fire off on it's own when it recharges.  That way you don't have to remember it and potentially end up face down from forgetting it.

[Obus Form]

On 3/17/2020 at 9:07 AM, WillParkinson said:

@Obus Form

 

A question, if you don't mind. If you were making the build for 'perfection', how would you make it? Skip powers like fly, etc. Just the best that best can be kind of thing.

 

Thank you!

 

I would

- take combat jumping to have permanent defense and combat maneuverability

- take super speed and because you already have Hasten from the speed ancillary pool.  Also Super speed + cloak of darkness = complete stealth to run to end of missions

- if you want vertical flying, id buy the temporary flying power from the p2w vendor

 

I'll take a look at a spines/DA build tonight.  Let me know if you want a different primary power than spines

[crkohl]

On 3/17/2020 at 6:24 PM, WillParkinson said:

I’m going to be honest. Most of the time I solo, especially on a scrapper. I’d love to be able to do it all (jack of all trades type) who can solo AVs or do higher end group content. If I had to choose, I would go with the group content, though.

 

That said, what other options might you suggest? (I am keeping Spines/DA open, because it sounds cool.)

I know you’re anti-click mez, but you should seriously try out DM/SD. There’s a reason that combo has a 10 page thread dedicated to it on this forum. They compliment each other so well it’s like they were made for it. You’ll easily be able to solo AVs, and you’ll be a force to be reckoned with in high level group content. 
 

If you’re wanting to stick to /DA though, my vote is Claws/DA. Great AoE and better single target than Spines. Low end costs help offset DA’s many toggles. Plus it’s thematically cool which is what really counts.

[Werner]

54 minutes ago, Obus Form said:

..Super speed + cloak of darkness = complete stealth to run to end of missions...

I slot a Celerity +stealth IO in Sprint for that purpose. Saves a power pick.

[Obus Form]

Just now, Werner said:

I slot a Celerity +stealth IO in Sprint for that purpose. Saves a power pick.

For travelling, if a travel power had to be picked, I'd go super speed since speed pool is almost always desired by most players.  Since cloak of darkness already gives stealth, I believe it just doubles up and provides the same buff as celerity stealth

[Werner]

43 minutes ago, Obus Form said:

For travelling, if a travel power had to be picked, I'd go super speed since speed pool is almost always desired by most players.  Since cloak of darkness already gives stealth, I believe it just doubles up and provides the same buff as celerity stealth

Heh, while I do usually have Hasten, I hate Super Speed, but different people like different travel powers, and probably for many people, they're one of the pleasures of the game. I also usually take Combat Jumping or Hover, so if I take a travel power, I go with Super Jump or Fly. But I mostly take them if I need somewhere to slot something. Knockback protection on Dark Armor, for instance. Otherwise I usually go with a jet pack and no travel power.

 

I can confirm from in-game that Cloak of Darkness and Celerity +stealth are additive and make you completely invisible to normal perception. I was stealthing missions that way this morning.

 

(edit: Though most of the time, I'd think Scrappers would be like, "Stealth? We don't need no frickin' stealth!" I'm just grinding out some incarnate salvage. I would normally crank up the difficulty and kill all. Vertical enemies offend my sensitive aesthetic sensibilities.)

Edited March 19, 2020 by Werner

[Obus Form]

On 3/17/2020 at 7:24 PM, WillParkinson said:

I’m going to be honest. Most of the time I solo, especially on a scrapper. I’d love to be able to do it all (jack of all trades type) who can solo AVs or do higher end group content. If I had to choose, I would go with the group content, though.

 

That said, what other options might you suggest? (I am keeping Spines/DA open, because it sounds cool.)

Here's the DM/DA with combat jumping, a bit more optimized than before.

 

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Dark Melee
Secondary Power Set: Dark Armor
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Smite -- SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg(A), SprScrStr-Dmg/Rchg(3), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), TchofDth-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(5), TchofDth-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5)
Level 1: Dark Embrace -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(7), UnbGrd-ResDam(7), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(9), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(9)
Level 2: Death Shroud -- SprScrStr-Rchg/+Crit(A), SprScrStr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(13), ScrDrv-Dmg/EndRdx(13), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg(15)
Level 4: Murky Cloud -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(19), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(19), UnbGrd-ResDam(21), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(21)
Level 6: Super Speed -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 8: Siphon Life -- SprCrtStr-Rchg/+50% Crit(A), SprCrtStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23), SprCrtStr-Acc/Dmg(23), SprCrtStr-Dmg/Rchg(25), SprCrtStr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(25), SprCrtStr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(27)
Level 10: Obsidian Shield -- UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(27), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(29)
Level 12: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 14: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(31), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(31), UnbGrd-Max HP%(31)
Level 16: Cross Punch -- Arm-Dam%(A), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(33), Arm-Acc/Rchg(33), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(34), Arm-Dmg(34)
Level 18: Dark Regeneration -- Prv-Absorb%(A), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(34), Prv-Heal/Rchg(36), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(36), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(36), Prv-Heal(37)
Level 20: Cloak of Darkness -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-Def(37), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(37), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(39), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(39)
Level 22: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), BlsoftheZ-ResKB(50), Rct-ResDam%(50)
Level 24: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-Def(39), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(40), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(40), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 26: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-Def(42), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(42), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(42), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 28: Soul Drain -- Obl-%Dam(A), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45), Obl-Dmg(45), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(46), Obl-Acc/Rchg(46)
Level 30: Tactics -- AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx(A), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(43), AdjTrg-EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 32: Midnight Grasp -- SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(48), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(48), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(50)
Level 35: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 38: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(46)
Level 41: Physical Perfection -- PrfShf-EndMod(A)
Level 44: Soul Transfer -- DctWnd-Rchg(A)
Level 47: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 49: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(15), Mrc-Rcvry+(17)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(17)
Level 50: Musculature Radial Paragon
Level 50: Barrier Core Epiphany
Level 50: Assault Radial Embodiment
------------

 

 

[Nightmarer 2]

On 3/7/2020 at 4:24 PM, WillParkinson said:

Okay, long story short. Last night someone in chat asked about dark melee/dark armor for Tanks, Brutes, and Scrappers. They were told pretty much unanimously that dark anything sucks. Horribly. One guy went so far as to tell the person who said he enjoyed it that he was sorry the player never tried a good toon.

 

Of course, my current guy is dark, and a few of the things they were saying made sense. He doesn't do the best damage. I asked what about when the update kicks in, and there are new things added to dark?  They said it wouldn't help any, and that dark would still suck.

 

So now, I'm trying to figure out what I can play that has the following: Decent animation times (sorry, Titan Weapons, but I feel like once I activate a power, I have time to get up and grab a drink and get back before it's done), strong damage, and some great damage mitigation. Also, I want the click and forget mez protection, because I never think about clicking that power until it's too late. I was looking at shield, but that click mez leaves me shuddering.

 

What else would you suggest (other than a different game, because I really do love City of Heroes, and have since it came out all those years ago).

 

Thank you for your time in reading, and thank you for any advice you might offer.

Sorry, cba to read the whole thread. Anyone saying Dark Melee sucks, underperforms, etc... is just an idiot, period. If they complain about its lack of AoE dmg, pool powers and epic powers give ample choice to make it up for said lack of AoE and regarding ST dmg, the chain MG - Smite - SL - Smite is one of the best if not the best melee ST chains in game. On the other side, Dark Armor is one of the most complete sets in game and since inventions and Incarnates, it is nowadays one of the funniest and best defensive sets in game.