Beam vs Assault rifle?

[Peacemoon]

Hi all,

 

I know strictly speaking both are viable sets, but could anyone list the pros and cons of each and how they compare? 
I have a theme in working on with Rad as primary. I like the idea of the beam rifle but I also like the idea of a flamethrower focused assault build. Any tips and tricks people could share?

Im really hoping to be able to add quite a few pool powers, so the more I a can skip but still be effective at core jobs, the better.

I’m going to be looking at some possible builds myself now.

[Zeraphia]

Beam. Go Beam. 100%.

 

-Most of Beam's damage is in Energy damage which is straight out the box less resisted than Lethal damage which is the majority of AR's damage type. 

-AR's animation times and the fact they're in DoTs really kill the performance of the set. The T9 is a 4 second cone with Lethal damage that is a long DoT. BR has a Targeted AoE T9 that deals energy damage wtih only a 2.9s cast meaning this is a lot less likely to kill you. 

-Beam provides substantially better secondary benefits than AR, Beam actually gives -res and -regen, you can put the Achilles proc into AR's powers but you can put Achilles into BR as well therefore BR has the higher -res (more beneficial to teammates).

-A lot of the base damages in AR look high but a lot of it also deals with fear (the enemies will hardly ever really take as much damage as the power indicates) and/or is in a DoT which also makes enemies not take as much damage as a power that is frontloaded and unavoidable once it hits you will be.

Edited March 19, 2020 by Zeraphia

[Psyonico]

Beam is going to have better ST damage while AR has better AoE damage.

 

Beam gets some AoE -Defense and ST -Regen

 

From what I've heard, Beam is objectively better than AR, but really, with rad as a primary, it boils down to "do you want to do ST or AoE damage"

[Peacemoon]

See I like Beam, and he’s level 11 with Beam at the moment. I don’t argue that it seems to have stronger ST damage and debuffs but..

 

Rad/ already has strong debuffs, is it necessary?

I like the idea of more aoe attacks in a team setting

Im still trying to get my head around disintegrate - is there a guide anywhere about how to make best use of how this power interacts with the others? 
What are the most skippable powers in /Beam?

 

Thanks both.

[Zeraphia]

43 minutes ago, Peacemoon said:

See I like Beam, and he’s level 11 with Beam at the moment. I don’t argue that it seems to have stronger ST damage and debuffs but..

 

Rad/ already has strong debuffs, is it necessary?

I like the idea of more aoe attacks in a team setting

Im still trying to get my head around disintegrate - is there a guide anywhere about how to make best use of how this power interacts with the others? 
What are the most skippable powers in /Beam?

 

Thanks both.

-res NEVER stops being "necessary" it ALWAYS makes you deal more damage, it works outside of damage caps and is the reason you occasionally see crazy things like this:

Now this is a totally different character, you're not going to take KB, but the principle is still there that -res is what makes damage spike through the roof. -Regen can be debatable but against +4 AV and iTrials, absolutely makes a visible difference. The -def is excellent for proc damage and additional Achilles -res procs.

-Disintegration is much like Contamination (from Rad Melee), it gives a chance for additional ST energy damage of time. If another target is already suffering from its effects and you use the Disintegrate power, it has a high chance to have the Disintegration proc to up to 3 other nearby targets.

-Charged Beam can be skipped if you take the T1, the rest are all very worthwhile to grab.

[Redlynne]

Assault Rifle is just ... old ... as a powerset.

What I mean by that is that Assault Rifle has been around since, what ... Issue 1?  Issue 0?  A LOT of the design and mechanics concepts that underpin Assault Rifle hail from a time when the game was VERY different from how it is now, and Assault Rifle is "getting long in the flash suppressor" if you know what I mean.

 

As for the fire attacks in the Assault Rifle powerset ... they just are NOT worth it.  Long animation for teeny tiny little DoT patch that may actually do damage to 0-1 $Targets (often zero)?  Not exactly all that useful.

 

For its time, Assault Rifle was pretty decent as an "omni-gun" type of slug/grenade/flame thrower weapon set, but it's a throwback to an earlier time in the history of powerset development ... and it shows.

 

Go Beam Rifle.

[Call Me Awesome]

I can't say from personal experience but everything I've ever heard and seen is that AR is pretty firmly at the bottom of the list in effectiveness while BR seems to be a good performer.

[Zeraphia]

2 hours ago, Redlynne said:

Assault Rifle is just ... old ... as a powerset.

What I mean by that is that Assault Rifle has been around since, what ... Issue 1?  Issue 0?  A LOT of the design and mechanics concepts that underpin Assault Rifle hail from a time when the game was VERY different from how it is now, and Assault Rifle is "getting long in the flash suppressor" if you know what I mean.

 

As for the fire attacks in the Assault Rifle powerset ... they just are NOT worth it.  Long animation for teeny tiny little DoT patch that may actually do damage to 0-1 $Targets (often zero)?  Not exactly all that useful.

 

For its time, Assault Rifle was pretty decent as an "omni-gun" type of slug/grenade/flame thrower weapon set, but it's a throwback to an earlier time in the history of powerset development ... and it shows.

 

Go Beam Rifle.

I really love your analysis of it as an old set and I really appreciate the perspective back to the times that are different from now! It brings back wonderful memories! 🙂 Cheers!

[Peacemoon]

7 hours ago, Zeraphia said:

-res NEVER stops being "necessary" it ALWAYS makes you deal more damage, it works outside of damage caps and is the reason you occasionally see crazy things like this:

Now this is a totally different character, you're not going to take KB, but the principle is still there that -res is what makes damage spike through the roof. -Regen can be debatable but against +4 AV and iTrials, absolutely makes a visible difference. The -def is excellent for proc damage and additional Achilles -res procs.

-Disintegration is much like Contamination (from Rad Melee), it gives a chance for additional ST energy damage of time. If another target is already suffering from its effects and you use the Disintegrate power, it has a high chance to have the Disintegration proc to up to 3 other nearby targets.

-Charged Beam can be skipped if you take the T1, the rest are all very worthwhile to grab.

Thanks for this. Yes you’re right about the -res Im just being stupid! 
 

I've Googled Beam Rifle guides but can’t see any guides on all the powers, if anyone can point me to somewhere I’d be grateful. The newer powersets seem to have powers that interact with each other a lot more, so just trying to get my head around it.

 

Ideally I wanted to skip 2 or 3 blast powers, as wanted to pick up leadership and fighting (my defender is an engineer in an armoured suit - I want him to be tough!). So charged beam is definitely on the block, but not sure about the others. Like you say, each one seems to bring something different to the table. 

 

I'm sort of figuring it out as I go along and might just end up respeccing later once I know more. I just like to build! 

[Peacemoon]

3 hours ago, Redlynne said:

Assault Rifle is just ... old ... as a powerset.

What I mean by that is that Assault Rifle has been around since, what ... Issue 1?  Issue 0?  A LOT of the design and mechanics concepts that underpin Assault Rifle hail from a time when the game was VERY different from how it is now, and Assault Rifle is "getting long in the flash suppressor" if you know what I mean.

 

As for the fire attacks in the Assault Rifle powerset ... they just are NOT worth it.  Long animation for teeny tiny little DoT patch that may actually do damage to 0-1 $Targets (often zero)?  Not exactly all that useful.

 

For its time, Assault Rifle was pretty decent as an "omni-gun" type of slug/grenade/flame thrower weapon set, but it's a throwback to an earlier time in the history of powerset development ... and it shows.

 

Go Beam Rifle.

Thanks, yes Assault Rifle was issue 0 and I remember it being top tier*!

 

Its interesting how some sets have aged more than others. Rad/ has hardly changed but remains awesome. It’s only weakness really being offensive toggles that can be turned off if you get mezzed, and two powers focused around a dead teammate! Although this makes me want to get Vengeance from leadership just so when I let someone die on purpose fail to keep a valued team member alive, I can activate a chain of powers to buff the team, use their corpse as the host to a nuclear explosion, and then bring them back to life suitable mutated and more powerful! 

 

Bit gutted about the flamethrower powers. I still might give /AR a try just for concept, and just try to maximise its strength by loading up on aoe powers for team settings. The nice thing about Homecoming is you can play 2 parallel characters and then just stick with the one you like best, thanks to being able to rename so easily!

[Psyonico]

you should absolutely take veng on a Rad/ defender.  just remember.  Veng before Fallout.

[Linea]

Beam, 100%.

[plainguy]

I love my AR Device Hover Blaster.. 

Beam is great as well. Have a sentinel  Beam Energy Aura that I have dozed off several times to find him still alive 30 minutes later when I woke up.

 

But I do have a AR Traps Defender and the DPS output sucks. 

Again all builds IO'ed out and defense capped, ETC.

 

 

 

[Peacemoon]

18 hours ago, plainguy said:

I love my AR Device Hover Blaster.. 

Beam is great as well. Have a sentinel  Beam Energy Aura that I have dozed off several times to find him still alive 30 minutes later when I woke up.

 

But I do have a AR Traps Defender and the DPS output sucks. 

Again all builds IO'ed out and defense capped, ETC.

 

 

 

 So is it more AR for Defenders do you think or AR in general?

[Klutzy]

Can't comment on Homecoming, but I had three AR characters on Live back in the day (Blaster, Corr, and later Defender when they added that option). It's not a fun powerset on a support.

 

First, the redraw and generally slow attacks are a problem. Since your defender powers are going to lose your weapon, that's a lot of redraw. Also the slow attacks (as in long animations, not just cooldown) get in the way if you have an active defender powerset.

You're also stuck with some mediocre powers: buckshot has tiny range compared to the rest of the set, the napalm is kind of odd and useless if you don't have a hold to go with it, and Snipe is basically trash. Your only true ranged AoE (as opposed to a cone) is M80, which has knockback, and is thus somewhat suspect. On a Corruptor, napalm is mildly useful since it checks Scourge the same way a rain attack would, but Defenders don't get that.

Almost all your damage is lethal, which is highly resisted. On a blaster, you can power through this with raw damage, but on a defender, you might as well just do Sonic or Psi which basically ignore that problem. It's the same reason playing a Mercenaries MM is painful: you start with roughly the same damage numbers as the other powersets, but rapidly run into far, far higher resistances than those other powersets.

One of the advantages of Defender is that it gets Big Numbers on debuff effects. Of which AR has none, really. Dark Blast or Sonic Blast benefit from this the most, but AR basically not at all.

[plainguy]

11 hours ago, Peacemoon said:

 So is it more AR for Defenders do you think or AR in general?

Personally just defenders.

 

Look for me there is just something about Assault Rifle.

Beam is good and its proven to be a AV killer.. 

 

I have my AR IOed out with Knockdown procs.  The only attack I didn't pick up is Beanbag. Though Beanbag Taser from device combo is very good for holding bosses. 

Personally I would rather have them dead/arrested so no holds.

 

What I like about AR is it does different attacks

All unique in some way. 

 

Beam I literally had to change the sounds of the attack to make it more likable. The original sounds sucked. I can't explain it.

But beyond that I think its just the same attack for many of the attacks animation wise. 

 

Look like many on my AR Device I can solo 4/8 on the right mobs. Counsel, CoTs.

But I do 3/8 for just a bit more speed.

 

I'm gonna play around some more with my AR Traps and see where it stands.  Solo you get 25% more dps I think as a defender.